TLS c/o 2020 - In #Squad We Trust Forum

[Hennessy]

I mean, yes, inherited wealth is inherently anti-egalitarian. But "earned" wealth isn't any more defensible. Our society sets insanely unequal values for different forms of labor.

something something market forces.....

follow up question: do you contend that the "government" or some oligarchs or maybe a community group should get together and establish some sort of arbitrary fee schedule of what people should be paid for doing any given job?

Something something labor unions

[amta]

I mean, yes, inherited wealth is inherently anti-egalitarian. But "earned" wealth isn't any more defensible. Our society sets insanely unequal values for different forms of labor.

something something market forces.....

follow up question: do you contend that the "government" or some oligarchs or maybe a community group should get together and establish some sort of arbitrary fee schedule of what people should be paid for doing any given job?

Something something labor unions

the price of labor set by labor unions, which are community groups, are arbitrary. also, how are you gonna get everyone to opt into labor unions? or will opting in be mandatory?

[Rigo]

I mean I get what pro-capitalism people are saying but let's not pretend it has created a merit-based society like its supposed to reward. When you break it down and realize that people are ahead in this world moreso because of born-into privilege than hard work, you gotta be like oh shit my idealism is out of touch with reality.

Also fucking lol when you replace "theft" with "immoral" and "cars" with "food." Let's be real here and recognize what sociological study hypotheticals are talking about.

[amta]

Also fucking lol when you replace "theft" with "immoral" and "cars" with "food." Let's be real here and recognize what sociological study hypotheticals are talking about.

stop being mean to my friends.

[airwrecka]

I wish everyone in this discussion would post their undergrad major when commenting I'm curious to see the correlation between different world views and what you studied in college!

For example, I studied global studies (where sometimes class discussions came close to saying capitalism is terrible and communism isn't that bad) and nonprofit/public management (which was housed in our business school--and let's be real, the business classes had a MUCH different opinion about capitalism). A lot of the time, I would have professors spouting completely contradictory ideologies at me in the same semester. My husband graduated with a business degree. When he would read my global studies papers for me, he was always flabergasted by some of the ideas contained therein.

Not trying to say that if you majored in a particular subject, you are bound to think/believe a certain way, but I do think that there is probably some correlation.

[proteinshake]

and I totally don't buy the "hard work doesn't lead to wealth" argument. that just isn't true.

I think you're kind of living in fantasy land here when you look at just how much wealth is inherited and how the rich get even more loaded by doing absolutely nothing. Unless we are calling investing "work" now.

idk, if people from third world countries can come to the US and thrive, I'm not sure how your statement can be true.

You can be opposed to taxation all you want, but to claim that what Rigo is saying is not true completely defies factual reality. That doesn't hold water for a second.

so were all these people in the high income groups born rich? and I do think that it's harder than it needs to be for hard work to = success, but I blame it mostly on government policy, not markets.

[+] Spoiler

[Rigo]

so were all these people in the high income groups born rich? and I do think that it's harder than it needs to be for hard work to = success, but I blame it mostly on government policy, not markets.

[+] Spoiler

I just don't get how you think this is responsive to literally anything said.

[Scurvy Cur]

I mean, yes, inherited wealth is inherently anti-egalitarian. But "earned" wealth isn't any more defensible. Our society sets insanely unequal values for different forms of labor.

something something market forces.....

follow up question: do you contend that the "government" or some oligarchs or maybe a community group should get together and establish some sort of arbitrary fee schedule of what people should be paid for doing any given job?

Something something labor unions

the price of labor set by labor unions, which are community groups, are arbitrary. also, how are you gonna get everyone to opt into labor unions? or will opting in be mandatory?

That does appear to have been the strategy employed by unions in some states, and it has opened the system up to the predictable sorts of abuses that you'd expect when an organization no longer feels compelled to make its membership worthwhile to the members, because the law forces them to contribute regardless.

I wish everyone in this discussion would post their undergrad major when commenting I'm curious to see the correlation between different world views and what you studied in college!

Dual majored in Materials Science and Engineering/Economics, fwiw.

[SybillAnnDorsett]

I'm sorry (genuinely) to derail this conversation for a second but I have a question -

Are we yay or nay for mentioning to your dream school that you're willing to turn down $$ at a peer school for them? Is this bad taste?

I haven't done this but thought I would double check in case I get thirsty enough

[airwrecka]

so were all these people in the high income groups born rich? and I do think that it's harder than it needs to be for hard work to = success, but I blame it mostly on government policy, not markets.

[+] Spoiler

I just don't get how you think this is responsive to literally anything said.

+1

also, if your point is that immigrants have come to America and ended up successful, you need to look at their socioeconomic status when they came. international students whose parents are rich enough to send them to college in the US do not qualify as those who "made it for themselves" once they got to America.*

*not saying that this is always the case for immigrants who become successful in America, just saying it is a reality for some of them. I know, for instance, that many of the international students at my university were some of the wealthiest students, too

[proteinshake]

so were all these people in the high income groups born rich? and I do think that it's harder than it needs to be for hard work to = success, but I blame it mostly on government policy, not markets.

[+] Spoiler

I just don't get how you think this is responsive to literally anything said.

assuming most of these people are from poor backgrounds (I don't think that's a huge assumption), it seems like hard work leads to wealth.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

I wish everyone in this discussion would post their undergrad major when commenting I'm curious to see the correlation between different world views and what you studied in college!

For example, I studied global studies (where sometimes class discussions came close to saying capitalism is terrible and communism isn't that bad) and nonprofit/public management (which was housed in our business school--and let's be real, the business classes had a MUCH different opinion about capitalism). A lot of the time, I would have professors spouting completely contradictory ideologies at me in the same semester. My husband graduated with a business degree. When he would read my global studies papers for me, he was always flabergasted by some of the ideas contained therein.

Not trying to say that if you majored in a particular subject, you are bound to think/believe a certain way, but I do think that there is probably some correlation.

Accounting and Finance (thus the handle) so I'm usually pretty centrist (way to the right my masters in ethics and peace girlfriend) but through accounting the "taxation is theft" specifically sets me off thus why I sought out the argument lol

[proteinshake]

so were all these people in the high income groups born rich? and I do think that it's harder than it needs to be for hard work to = success, but I blame it mostly on government policy, not markets.

[+] Spoiler

I just don't get how you think this is responsive to literally anything said.

+1

also, if your point is that immigrants have come to America and ended up successful, you need to look at their socioeconomic status when they came. international students whose parents are rich enough to send them to college in the US do not qualify as those who "made it for themselves" once they go to America

yeah I totally get that point. I just think there are a sufficient number of immigrants who don't fall into this category.

[proteinshake]

here are my results btw

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

I'm sorry (genuinely) to derail this conversation for a second but I have a question -

Are we yay or nay for mentioning to your dream school that you're willing to turn down $$ at a peer school for them? Is this bad taste?

I haven't done this but thought I would double check in case I get thirsty enough

Like using the scholly to try and entice a response or just straight up saying I will walk away from this if you give me a favorable response no scholly needed?

[SybillAnnDorsett]

I'm sorry (genuinely) to derail this conversation for a second but I have a question -

Are we yay or nay for mentioning to your dream school that you're willing to turn down $$ at a peer school for them? Is this bad taste?

I haven't done this but thought I would double check in case I get thirsty enough

Like using the scholly to try and entice a response or just straight up saying I will walk away from this if you give me a favorable response no scholly needed?

Thinking of throwing a version of the latter into my early May LOCI.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

here are my results btw

I will say I think the general thread that has connected every single person who took this test has been strong liberal slant (vs. authoritarianism)

Like I'll defend the concepts of sovereign power but that doesn't mean I don't want it checked at every turn. I think it's odd that so many attorneys seem to exhibit these tendencies (distrust of police, general anti-war sentiment, pro personal rights)

[azaleafire]

so were all these people in the high income groups born rich? and I do think that it's harder than it needs to be for hard work to = success, but I blame it mostly on government policy, not markets.

[+] Spoiler

I just don't get how you think this is responsive to literally anything said.

+1

also, if your point is that immigrants have come to America and ended up successful, you need to look at their socioeconomic status when they came. international students whose parents are rich enough to send them to college in the US do not qualify as those who "made it for themselves" once they go to America

yeah I totally get that point. I just think there are a sufficient number of immigrants who don't fall into this category.

[+] Spoiler

It actually looks like (for the India example) about 80% don't fall into that category. Not saying being 126% over the poverty line as opposed to 125% is living large but still.

[Rigo]

I'm sorry (genuinely) to derail this conversation for a second but I have a question -
Are we yay or nay for mentioning to your dream school that you're willing to turn down $$ at a peer school for them? Is this bad taste?
I haven't done this but thought I would double check in case I get thirsty enough

Like using the scholly to try and entice a response or just straight up saying I will walk away from this if you give me a favorable response no scholly needed?

Thinking of throwing a version of the latter into my early May LOCI.

I just don't really see the point other than trying to brag that a "you're my first choice and I'd definitely pick you" wouldn't cover.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

I'm sorry (genuinely) to derail this conversation for a second but I have a question -

Are we yay or nay for mentioning to your dream school that you're willing to turn down $$ at a peer school for them? Is this bad taste?

I haven't done this but thought I would double check in case I get thirsty enough

Like using the scholly to try and entice a response or just straight up saying I will walk away from this if you give me a favorable response no scholly needed?

Thinking of throwing a version of the latter into my early May LOCI.

I'm assuming you're all aboard the PI train, given your #1 choice, so honestly I can't see it being a terrible move. It's always tough to commit to walking away from money but if you do get in the LRAP and opportunities are amazing, and it's not like you have to give it back if they don't take you.

Although Rigo might be right that I'll definitely take you would probably suffice, mentioning the acceptance/money might give marginally more strength but IDK

[Rigo]

Like I'll defend the concepts of sovereign power but that doesn't mean I don't want it checked at every turn. I think it's odd that so many attorneys seem to exhibit these tendencies (distrust of police, general anti-war sentiment, pro personal rights)

It's also just the generation we grew up in.
Police caught on camera abusing their authority, a completely bungled war, and out gay people in media.

[Rigo]

I'm assuming you're all aboard the PI train, given your #1 choice, so honestly I can't see it being a terrible move. It's always tough to commit to walking away from money but if you do get in the LRAP and opportunities are amazing, and it's not like you have to give it back if they don't take you.
Although Rigo might be right that I'll definitely take you would probably suffice, mentioning the acceptance/money might give marginally more strength but IDK

I'm just of the opinion that if you have to ask if something is tacky or not, then best leave it out because it could rub the person reading your file the wrong way. And when it comes to waitlist, you need everything to go right in your favor.

[SybillAnnDorsett]

Lots to think about. I might be getting too desperate and don't want to communicate a version of that in my LOCIs so I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Thanks!

[Scurvy Cur]

I will say I think the general thread that has connected every single person who took this test has been strong liberal slant (vs. authoritarianism)

I'm wondering how much of that was due to the phrasing, though. A lot of the authority/liberty questions read something like "how do y'all feel about jackbooted fascist police states?" and "You're chill with sacrificing everything for law and order, right?", or at least I was getting that vibe as I read them.

Would be interesting to try it again on a similar population with some questions that are more likely to be mainstream acceptable, like: "You generally feel police institutions are trustworthy and deserve the benefit of the doubt" or "The government can be trusted to usually respect the rights of citizens".

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

I will say I think the general thread that has connected every single person who took this test has been strong liberal slant (vs. authoritarianism)

I'm wondering how much of that was due to the phrasing, though. A lot of the authority/liberty questions read something like "how do y'all feel about jackbooted fascist police states?" and "You're chill with sacrificing everything for law and order, right?", or at least I was getting that vibe as I read them.

Would be interesting to try it again on a similar population with some questions that are more likely to be mainstream acceptable, like: "You generally feel police institutions are trustworthy and deserve the benefit of the doubt" or "The government can be trusted to usually respect the rights of citizens".

I was too, but then I think about all the people I know who are of the "if you aren't doing anything wrong then you shouldn't have anything to hide" crowd and I think maybe the questions aren't that poorly worded