WUSTL c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013) Forum

[Green317]

I did speak to someone at the T14, who simply said "yes" when I asked "Will I need to submit the deposit to you before knowing anything about possible awards/grants/ scholarships?" And I sent them a copy of the award letter I received from WUSTL, but I haven't received any reply indicating that they will give it any consideration. I want to choose the T14, but I want it to be an informed choice, not like some sort of incomplete information game theory exercise.

[2014]

It's a little ridiculous to expect you to deposit without giving you a financial aid offer, definitely talk to the T14. If you do pull the trigger on that deposit, you need to be comfortable with sticker there over full ride as WUSTL though, because that is a plausible result.

Hint - If the lower T14 is Georgetown and you are comfortable with sticker there, try to get uncomfortable real quick as that is a bad idea.

[MKC]

I did speak to someone at the T14, who simply said "yes" when I asked "Will I need to submit the deposit to you before knowing anything about possible awards/grants/ scholarships?" And I sent them a copy of the award letter I received from WUSTL, but I haven't received any reply indicating that they will give it any consideration. I want to choose the T14, but I want it to be an informed choice, not like some sort of incomplete information game theory exercise.

Yeah, you're probably going to need to push the issue on this one. As in, "I have a full ride on the table, and I can't justify an extra 200k of debt to attend your school. If you have plans to mitigate this issue with merit aid, please let me know so that I can take this into consideration."

[Lavitz]

This sounds like something Georgetown would do.

Cornell does this too. They usually make people pay sticker off reserve, but I'm not sure how they'd react to a full-ride from WUSTL.

[DoveBodyWash]

I want to choose the T14, but I want it to be an informed choice, not like some sort of incomplete information game theory exercise.

Is this T14 in your desired market? Or does it place particularly well there? There are a number of "good" reasons why you might pick this T14 over WUSTL for free. But you're gonna have a hard time if you're looking to justify the decision from a purely financial standpoint. I could see Cornell or Duke having the luxury of throwing more money at WL-admits but def not NU or GULC. Even if they do give you some money, it won't compete with a free JD from WUSTL (yes i know it's not completely free cuz of COL).

[Green317]

I think that a full ride from WUSTL would not impress them in the slightest -- I've already communicated it to them, after all. I imagine their feeling would be that if I am not willing to attend at sticker, then there are plenty of people who would, and who would love to have my spot.

[dstars823]

yeah i dont think the low end of the T14 DCNG are under the impression that money from anywhere other than T14s would really make them budge

[sublime]

..

[DoveBodyWash]

I imagine their feeling would be that if I am not willing to attend at sticker, then there are plenty of people who would, and who would love to have my spot.

Don't be one of those people. Unless this is like your dream school or it's in your desired market...Or if you absolutely MUST have a federal clerkship or something.

[Xs20]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it says somewhere in the ABA rules that a school can't make you deposit without first telling you about financial aid. I think somebody posted it in another thread.

[sublime]

..

[DoveBodyWash]

Except under binding early decision plans, or for academic terms beginning in the spring or summer, no law school should require an enrollment commitment of any kind, to an offer of admission or scholarship prior to April 1. Admitted applicants who have submitted a timely financial aid application should not be required to commit to enroll by having to make a nonrefundable financial commitment until notified of financial aid awards that are within the control of the law school.

From http://www.lsac.org/jd/apply/whom-to-admit.asp under seat deposits

Not sure if this applies..because "sorry no scholarship, only loans" is still technically a notification of "financial aid"

[Green317]

Interesting. This school appears to be doing exactly that. Or, I suppose they could say that by not giving financial aid information, they ARE giving information -- i.e., that one should expect to pay full price unless told otherwise at a later date. I can definitely make a rational choice between WUSTL-full-ride and low-T14-sticker. It's just that the uncertainly about whether it really will be sticker is killing me. I have to assume it will be, for the sake of the decision, but I can't be absolutely certain, the way I can be about what WUSTL is offering.

[sublime]

..

[DoveBodyWash]

Interesting. This school appears to be doing exactly that. Or, I suppose they could say that by not giving financial aid information, they ARE giving information -- i.e., that one should expect to pay full price unless told otherwise at a later date. I can definitely make a rational choice between WUSTL-full-ride and low-T14-sticker. It's just that the uncertainly about whether it really will be sticker is killing me. I have to assume it will be, for the sake of the decision, but I can't be absolutely certain, the way I can be about what WUSTL is offering.

Tbh anything that a lower T14 can afford/want to give WL-admits at this point in the cycle is going to be a negligible amount. For all intents and purposes, you will be paying sticker. Like would it really matter if they gave you, 15, 20, or even 30k?

[Green317]

I agree that any award they did offer at this point would be pretty negligible -- although $30,000 would be enough to make me think really long and hard about it. But, of course, why would they give a WL person that much money? I know it's absurd to even think about that happening. I should count myself lucky that I have even been accepted at sticker.

[MKC]

I agree that any award they did offer at this point would be pretty negligible -- although $30,000 would be enough to make me think really long and hard about it. But, of course, why would they give a WL person that much money? I know it's absurd to even think about that happening. I should count myself lucky that I have even been accepted at sticker.

Another guy just got a 100k offer off of the waitlist from GULC. I got 60k off the WL from Notre Dame. The schools are going to be desperate this cycle.

[Green317]

Ok, maybe I am being too pessimistic? Last week, I wouldn't have expected either the full-ride from WUSTL or the acceptance at the T14, and now this problem is tearing my brain in two. I guess it shows that anything can happen, right? It occurred to me that maybe by the time I am a 3L at WUSTL, I will be at a low-T14 anyway, from the way the school is throwing money at good applicants. (Just kidding.)

[DoveBodyWash]

Ok, maybe I am being too pessimistic? Last week, I wouldn't have expected either the full-ride from WUSTL or the acceptance at the T14, and now this problem is tearing my brain in two. I guess it shows that anything can happen, right? It occurred to me that maybe by the time I am a 3L at WUSTL, I will be at a low-T14 anyway, from the way the school is throwing money at good applicants. (Just kidding.)

Depend on how much money Syverud wants to spend on Operation-Fuck-GULC.

[Green317]

Ok, I guess my strategy will be to contact the T14 again, and lay out my situation very plainly, explaining that I would love more than anything to attend, but that I need to weigh that against a financial aid development from another school, and that filling in the information gap would enable me to make a better decision. I already know the worst they can possibly say, so I guess there's no harm.

[jdmonkey]

Ok, maybe I am being too pessimistic? Last week, I wouldn't have expected either the full-ride from WUSTL or the acceptance at the T14, and now this problem is tearing my brain in two. I guess it shows that anything can happen, right? It occurred to me that maybe by the time I am a 3L at WUSTL, I will be at a low-T14 anyway, from the way the school is throwing money at good applicants. (Just kidding.)

Take your emotions out of this and think about it from the perspective of the T14. If they get you to deposit you lose your full scholarship at WUSTL and you have no leverage to negotiate a scholarship. They want you to help subsidize the scholarships they have already given out "rounding out the class." I'm sure that the Office of Financial Aid will be very helpful in helping you apply for massive loans so that the T14 can fill their trough. You have to make the assumption that you will receive 0 from the T14, as anything else is wishful thinking. If I was in charge of the T14 I wouldn't give anything to somebody who deposited without any scholarship. I'd rather use that money to host conferences at the Ritz Carlton lol or raise my salary. Not to sound cold, but with budgets being so tight it would make sense to squeeze every penny out of you.

[Green317]

Oh, I have definitely considered the situation from the perspective of the T14. Technically, they could make everyone pay sticker if they wanted to, and I'm sure they could easily fill the class with people willing to make that kind of financial sacrifice. There's no compelling reason for them to offer me any money, nor to be explicit about financial aid prior to making a deposit. They need to make money, and obviously not everyone can receive large scholarships; someone (lots of someones) need to pay sticker to balance things out.

[MKC]

Oh, I have definitely considered the situation from the perspective of the T14. Technically, they could make everyone pay sticker if they wanted to, and I'm sure they could easily fill the class with people willing to make that kind of financial sacrifice. There's no compelling reason for them to offer me any money, nor to be explicit about financial aid prior to making a deposit. They need to make money, and obviously not everyone can receive large scholarships; someone (lots of someones) need to pay sticker to balance things out.

They also need to hold their medians, and they may have to take a revenue hit to make that happen this year. Don't be a sucker. 166/3.25 = Full Ride at WUSTL this year. Your numbers may be more valuable than you realize this year.

[dstars823]

i think the dropoff in LSAT takers with scores at the top is really making it tough for adcomms this year... it seems everyone on this forum gets a 170+ but with a 25% dropoff in applicants with 170+ i think it truly is tough for a lot of schools to keep that high LSAT median

[Green317]

Don't be a sucker. 166/3.25 = Full Ride at WUSTL this year. Your numbers may be more valuable than you realize this year.

Ha! I will try not to be one! Although I am not sure if my numbers are especially valuable...166/3.75 (with some stellar softs, although they don't really factor in at this point).