Notre Dame Class of 2015 Forum

[givemea170]

As to the difference in averages, I respect where you are coming from there. There should certainly be somewhat of a curve if you will granted to groups who on average perform worse because those are most likely numbers worth correcting and ignoring.

But a 154 to a 171 is where I would say the score difference is far too great to consider correction. Just my opinion but hopefully I'll get in off the WL. I also don't think they should punish those who go straight from undergrad but that is another issue altogether.

[Jsa725]

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[Lvaughn714]

We all have our theories. Just annoyed at the process that is obviously flawed!

How so?

I don't think that it is flawed...I think that I am the definition of a wholistic application review process they were able to look past my numbers and see things in my app that they believed would make me a good fit

You're certainly entitled to your opinion as everyone is.

I do, however, know for certain that everyone has different upbringings and opportunities in their life before law school, but everyone does take the same test so it would make a lot more sense to focus serious weight on the one constant between applications.

There is a difference between serious weight and having the LSAT be a guarantee or be all end all stat. Obviously you did very well and are an intelligent person, but so are 99% of the people who applied to ND. If you don't understand why the admin committee is placing significant value on softs that many other schools typically overlook, then you really don't understand the ND philosophy in the first place. It's not about having great numbers or churning out super lawyers. It's about a responsibility to educate the whole person, mind body and spirit. Therefore it makes sense they would look for success/talent/aptitude in all of these areas not just in test scores.

[sdphill]

As to the difference in averages, I respect where you are coming from there. There should certainly be somewhat of a curve if you will granted to groups who on average perform worse because those are most likely numbers worth correcting and ignoring.

But a 154 to a 171 is where I would say the score difference is far too great to consider correction. Just my opinion but hopefully I'll get in off the WL. I also don't think they should punish those who go straight from undergrad but that is another issue altogether.

I did not know that they punish those who go straight from undergrad (except for Northwestern, who is open about it). I'm sorry that you're on the waitlist, but a "universal" test is something that cannot be looked at with a lot of intensity. It's a TEST.. Anything can happen 1) luck, 2) sickness, 3) nerves.. Furthermore, it might not be your LSAT score that pushed you into the WL pile.. It may have been a recommendation or your PS didn't come off the way you thought it would. Law School cannot be a numbers game... It will be filled with one type of "person."

But I digress...

Anyway, congrats to everyone that has recently been admitted!

[BarcaCrossesTheAlps]

To chime in on what Phil is taking about...

I just read UM Law Dean Z.'s blog and she had an article about how PS are viewed differently by the same committee, sometimes radically so! They most often WL those people then come back and explain to each other how the PS came off to them. For example, one paragraph might come off as arrogant to one member, soft and heartfelt to another. They need time to talk about that stuff, which means that applicant takes time...and they wait.

Personally, I think they should look at motivation, background, GPA, and LSAT, but not the LSAT as the BIG bullet in the chamber. The LSAT tests one thing: how well you take the LSAT. It would be like admitting people based on performance of a soduko game,...seriously. But the rankings game makes itself felt!

"Standardized tests" suck for one reason, they do not test knowledge base. They do test application of test taking methods, but, again, to my earlier point, the LSAT tests how well you take the LSAT. I do, however, think there is a place for standardized tests in college admissions decisions.

I'm not saying the LSAC and ABA are rackets, just that the whole system is a little too interested in regulation for the sake of profit and not stability and education.

[sdphill]

To chime in on what Phil is taking about...

I just read UM Law Dean Z.'s blog and she had an article about how PS are viewed differently by the same committee, sometimes radically so! They most often WL those people then come back and explain to each other how the PS came off to them. For example, one paragraph might come off as arrogant to one member, soft and heartfelt to another. They need time to talk about that stuff, which means that applicant takes time...and they wait.

Personally, I think they should look at motivation, background, GPA, and LSAT, but not the LSAT as the BIG bullet in the chamber. The LSAT tests one thing: how well you take the LSAT. It would be like admitting people based on performance of a soduko game,...seriously. But the rankings game makes itself felt!

"Standardized tests" suck for one reason, they do not test knowledge base. They do test application of test taking methods, but, again, to my earlier point, the LSAT tests how well you take the LSAT. I do, however, think there is a place for standardized tests in college admissions decisions.

I'm not saying the LSAC and ABA are rackets, just that the whole system is a little too interested in regulation for the sake of profit and not stability and education.

I couldn't have put this any better!

[givemea170]

You all make very valid points, but I will address a few things that jumped out to me as bad assumptions...

I think it is assumed I have no good softs simply because I was wait-listed. Bad assumption IMO but maybe they aren't as impressive to you or ND.

And as for the 'luck' factor in test taking, that is not a good argument either. For all they know, the higher test scorer was hurt by luck more than the low test scorer. I missed the last 6 questions on the last section because I ran out of time. My guessing skills suck.

[Lvaughn714]

You all make very valid points, but I will address a few things that jumped out to me as bad assumptions...

I think it is assumed I have no good softs simply because I was wait-listed. Bad assumption IMO but maybe they aren't as impressive to you or ND.

And as for the 'luck' factor in test taking, that is not a good argument either. For all they know, the higher test scorer was hurt by luck more than the low test scorer. I missed the last 6 questions on the last section because I ran out of time. My guessing skills suck.

I'm not assuming your softs aren't good. The point I am trying to make is that the majority of applicants are probably "qualified" as in they have proof of strong academics, knowledge, writing skills, dedication to hobbies/work/community. So the admissions committee is at this point is just looking for people who fit the ND community.

[magicbunny]

Decision made yesterday, no email whatsoever since then

Awww the snail mail plz come soooon... I wish it wouldn't take too long to get from indiana to southern wisconsin

[Lvaughn714]

Decision made yesterday, no email whatsoever since then

Awww the snail mail plz come soooon... I wish it wouldn't take too long to get from indiana to southern wisconsin

My decision was mad on a Friday and my package was in my mail box Saturday, I am in TX. But I also got my letter inside the big package with the massive manual thing. I would bet you get your info no later than tomorrow's mail.

Good Luck!

[cass1230]

To chime in on what Phil is taking about...

I just read UM Law Dean Z.'s blog and she had an article about how PS are viewed differently by the same committee, sometimes radically so! They most often WL those people then come back and explain to each other how the PS came off to them. For example, one paragraph might come off as arrogant to one member, soft and heartfelt to another. They need time to talk about that stuff, which means that applicant takes time...and they wait.

Personally, I think they should look at motivation, background, GPA, and LSAT, but not the LSAT as the BIG bullet in the chamber. The LSAT tests one thing: how well you take the LSAT. It would be like admitting people based on performance of a soduko game,...seriously. But the rankings game makes itself felt!

"Standardized tests" suck for one reason, they do not test knowledge base. They do test application of test taking methods, but, again, to my earlier point, the LSAT tests how well you take the LSAT. I do, however, think there is a place for standardized tests in college admissions decisions.

I'm not saying the LSAC and ABA are rackets, just that the whole system is a little too interested in regulation for the sake of profit and not stability and education.

I couldn't have put this any better!

I wish they would have given me a sudoku game

[mrjohnsterman]

Can someone pm me the password for the admitted student site? I'm at work and do not have access to my packet. Also/instead is there an admitted students day/when is it?

Thanks

[Lvaughn714]

Can someone pm me the password for the admitted student site? I'm at work and do not have access to my packet. Also/instead is there an admitted students day/when is it?

Thanks

ASW in April is Friday the 13, and there is a class sit in and then a reception on Thursday afternoon if you can come in Thursday morning.

There is also one March 23.

[sdphill]

Can someone pm me the password for the admitted student site? I'm at work and do not have access to my packet. Also/instead is there an admitted students day/when is it?

Thanks

They did not send it to you in an email?

[givemea170]

If someone doesn't mind, could they possibly send me their Optional Notre Dame Essay? I am wait-listed and have mine sent in, but I"m working on an LOCI and I always write a little bit more smoothly when I have anything to compare to. Thank you!

[sdphill]

Finally got to my mailbox... 22K/yr

[mrjohnsterman]

Can someone pm me the password for the admitted student site? I'm at work and do not have access to my packet. Also/instead is there an admitted students day/when is it?

Thanks

They did not send it to you in an email?

Email got sent to spam for some reason - thanks for the heads up.

[kmh504]

My status checker says decision made, will be mailed - if I didn't get an e-mail is it safe to say I didn't get in

[sdphill]

My status checker says decision made, will be mailed - if I didn't get an e-mail is it safe to say I didn't get in

Not true.. Took me a week to get an email.

[kmh504]

My status checker says decision made, will be mailed - if I didn't get an e-mail is it safe to say I didn't get in

Not true.. Took me a week to get an email.

Swweet! There's still hope. Thanks!

[mcdeeremitch]

My status checker says decision made, will be mailed - if I didn't get an e-mail is it safe to say I didn't get in

Not true.. Took me a week to get an email.

Swweet! There's still hope. Thanks!

Same for me it took me 5 days to get my email

[kmh504]

My status checker says decision made, will be mailed - if I didn't get an e-mail is it safe to say I didn't get in

Not true.. Took me a week to get an email.

Swweet! There's still hope. Thanks!

Same for me it took me 5 days to get my email

+1 Now I get to continuously refresh my email and harass my mailman =)

[magicbunny]

Still nothing in my mailbox

I'm gonna cry...

[givemea170]

If someone doesn't mind, could they possibly send me their Optional Notre Dame Essay? I am wait-listed and have mine sent in, but I"m working on an LOCI and I always write a little bit more smoothly when I have anything to compare to. Thank you!

No one?

[sdphill]

I must say that I am HIGHLY impressed with the admission package from Notre Dame Law. The postcards, the window decal, the coupon, the book, and booklet really makes me want to be a place where they educate "A Different Kind of Lawyer."