SMU 2012 Forum

[kalvano]

I refuse to apply to be an SBA mentor because I don't want to deal with the bullshit, but if any of you fine folks need help, advice, or wish to bitch and moan at some point, I'm happy to help out.

[Jredelman15]

What are the employment prospects for biglaw looking like out of SMU? Texas is where I want to end up but UT is a large reach bc of low GPA.

[kalvano]

Top 10% to be Biglaw secure. Top 20% to have a pretty good shot.

[austonian]

In via status checker. SMU is now my in-state option. Emory is my top choice (and $) of those to which I've been admitted.

SMU vs. Emory
WL: UWash, WashU
Still waiting to hear: UCLA, UC-Davis, Hastings, UMinn

Stay in Texas!!

[Jredelman15]

In via status checker. SMU is now my in-state option. Emory is my top choice (and $) of those to which I've been admitted.

SMU vs. Emory
WL: UWash, WashU
Still waiting to hear: UCLA, UC-Davis, Hastings, UMinn

Stay in Texas!!

+1

[fathergoose]

What are the employment prospects for biglaw looking like out of SMU? Texas is where I want to end up but UT is a large reach bc of low GPA.

All the way down to top quarter gives you a fighting chance at OCI, but anything outside of top 10% and you better be on law review and be able to nail the interviews. There are also the occasional outliers between 25%-50% but I have heard of no one getting a big law summer gig who was lower than that.

Edit: I'm not saying that any of that is guaranteed. It really is a crap shoot, there are people on law review and in the top 10% who struck out at OCI and there are people who are neither of those and landed a big law job. Caveat Emptor

[Stevoman]

What are you PT students dressing for at the admitted students dinner? Business casual I guess? Hopefully not formal...

And I'll say this, even as a FT student, there are definite perks and drawbacks to being a PT student. A lot of us are jealous that they have half as many finals and (seemingly) more time to study. I'm friends with a few 2Es and they all say "I don't know how you do it, having five finals would be miserable." But obviously read more of the posts from evening students to get a better grip on what the program is actually like.

I spoke to a few PT students here, and was on the fence about FT vs PT. I actually almost emailed admissions and told them to downgrade my combined app to only PT, but when they admitted me to PT it sealed the deal for me.

I decided to go PT for the reasons mentioned above, and also money. The class load is "easier," and I can keep working in law school and graduate almost debt-free, albeit a year later. That being said, I think it depends on where you are in life. Most here are coming straight out of undergrad, and want to rush thru LS in 3 years and land their biglaw job. (I venture that many here are also victims of the economy who realized their Art History degree is unemployable, and are going to LS as a way to "fix" their employability problem.) Someone with an existing successful career really doesn't want to throw all that away and start over, especially since employers value work experience, and Dallas is expensive to live in.

For me, it was 3 years and $90k in loans at Baylor/UH, or 4 years and ~$30k in loans at SMU thanks to my job. We could argue about and crunch the numbers all day, but I really don't want to gamble $60k in loans ITE.

Something else to bear in mind is that PT students are only "locked in" to PT for the first year. I spoke to a nice admissions person, and they said that if you want to accelerate to FT and finish in 3 years you certainly are allowed to. They even offer summer classes in the evening, so that the PT students can catch up to their FT peers and be on equal footing for OCI eligibility and all that.

FT versus PT is something up to the individual, I don't think there is a "right" answer.

Also @Titleist, we'll have to play a few rounds if you do end up at SMU.

[imbored25]

let me in bro let me in

[April Ludgate]

Did anyone who was admitted FT yesterday via status checker ever get a call? I'm starting to feel forgotten...

[Oftranch]

Did anyone who was admitted FT yesterday via status checker ever get a call? I'm starting to feel forgotten...

No my status checker didn't update until late yesterday and with today being Good Friday I am sure their office is closed... we should here Monday or Tuesday.

[Stevoman]

Did anyone who was admitted FT yesterday via status checker ever get a call? I'm starting to feel forgotten...

I didn't get a call for several days after I got in via status checker, and the acceptance packet was even later than the phone call. Don't worry about it.

[April Ludgate]

Did anyone who was admitted FT yesterday via status checker ever get a call? I'm starting to feel forgotten...

No my status checker didn't update until late yesterday and with today being Good Friday I am sure their office is closed... we should here Monday or Tuesday.

Oh, that's right. I completely forgot. I'm just antsy to hear back so I can go ahead and commit (hopefully)!

[imbored25]

Did anyone who was admitted FT yesterday via status checker ever get a call? I'm starting to feel forgotten...

april ludgate is a bitch

[nouseforaname123]

I spoke to a few PT students here, and was on the fence about FT vs PT. I actually almost emailed admissions and told them to downgrade my combined app to only PT, but when they admitted me to PT it sealed the deal for me.

First, I want to say that as a 3E I am a big proponent of the PT program. Please don't take the following as me trying to dissuade you from the PT program. That said, unless things have changed, you've gotten some really bad info.

The class load is "easier,"

It is easier for PT-students who are NOT working during the day. As a student who worked FT throughout LS, I don't believe the class load is easier for students who are working FT.

Something else to bear in mind is that PT students are only "locked in" to PT for the first year.

This is partially correct. You can start accelerating graduation by taking additional classes following your first year in the PT program. Each class year is broken down into sections, 1, 2, & 3. The PT program is section 3. You must take all required "1L" courses with your section. Section 3 always takes the required "1L" courses in the evening. Because the PT program breaks the 1L courses up over two academic years, Section 3 students must continue take some classes together in the second year of the program. In that sense you continue to be "locked in" to the PT program beyond the first year.

More importantly, for students accelerating graduation, the registrar and/or OCS will NOT allow you to change your anticipated graduation date until you are within thirty credit hours of graduation. PT students matriculating this fall will enter as the class of 2016. The school will designate you as a 2016 JD candidate until you reach 57 credit hours. You won't be allowed to change your anticipated graduation to c/o 2015 until that point. There is no way to enter school as c/o 2016 and get to 57 credit hours in time for OCI for the c/o 2015. This is important because, if I'm not mistaken, Symplicity (the OCS job system that controls OCI) is based on your graduation year. The computer system will lock you out of even participating in OCI if you don't have the right graduating year designation. In this VERY, VERY important sense you are "locked in" to the PT program beyond the first year.

You could catch up to the c/o 2015 in time for 3L OCI, but that isn't worth the effort.

They even offer summer classes in the evening, so that the PT students can catch up to their FT peers and be on equal footing for OCI eligibility and all that.

This is incorrect. As a PT student in the c/o 2016 you will have 21 credit hours at the completion of your first year. FT students in the c/o 2015 will have 31 credit hours at the completion of their first year. The maximum summer course load you can take is seven credit hours. The following link takes you to the course list for summer 2011. It is impossible to get more than seven credit hours out of that schedule (note that you are ineligible for clinics as a 1E):

http://www.law.smu.edu/Registrar/App/Up ... 011&Year=2

I also seem to recall OCS telling us that you have to have at least 31 credit hours to participate in OCI. I don't see how you can possibly get to that number in time for OCI if you are accelerating graduation (perhaps you can get ten credit hours in Oxford?). ETA: I am not sure how they make this interact with Symplicity, but I do know that Symplicity is based on your graduating, a classification the school seems unwilling to change until it is clear you will graduate at an accelerated pace.

Also, an important caveat you seem to be missing is that accelerating graduation makes it really tough to get the benefit of LR in time for OCI. You could possibly get that benefit for 3L OCI, but, again, I don't think that's worth the effort.

I am not trying to dissuade you from the PT program. I am a strong supporter of the program and would absolutely do it again. I just want to make sure you are going in to this with all correct information.

Search my post history for a detailed posting on the positives and negatives of accelerating graduation. Long story short, accelerating graduation makes sense for people that are not likely to get something out of OCI. For people likely to get something out of OCI it is best to stay the course with the PT program.

[JRDallas11]

Edit: I'm not saying that any of that is guaranteed. It really is a crap shoot, there are people on law review and in the top 10% who struck out at OCI and there are people who are neither of those and landed a big law job. Caveat Emptor

This type of knowledge comes with age. When you're 34 and have friends who are hiring partners at V&E, Gardere, Fulbright, Patton Boggs, Carrington Coleman, T&K, etc. throw all that ranking shit out the window. Just sayin'.

[holdencaulfield]

Edit: I'm not saying that any of that is guaranteed. It really is a crap shoot, there are people on law review and in the top 10% who struck out at OCI and there are people who are neither of those and landed a big law job. Caveat Emptor

This type of knowledge comes with age. When you're 34 and have friends who are hiring partners at V&E, Gardere, Fulbright, Patton Boggs, Carrington Coleman, T&K, etc. throw all that ranking shit out the window. Just sayin'.

Don't be too sure. Even with great connections, it'll be tough to land those big firms if you're in the bottom 50%.

[fathergoose]

Edit: I'm not saying that any of that is guaranteed. It really is a crap shoot, there are people on law review and in the top 10% who struck out at OCI and there are people who are neither of those and landed a big law job. Caveat Emptor

This type of knowledge comes with age. When you're 34 and have friends who are hiring partners at V&E, Gardere, Fulbright, Patton Boggs, Carrington Coleman, T&K, etc. throw all that ranking shit out the window. Just sayin'.

Actually most of the people in that category are just likable people. They had something that the interviewer liked. I honestly don't know of anyone who parlayed a connecting like the one you are talking about into a job. But again, that's just my anecdotal evidence

[kalvano]

Edit: I'm not saying that any of that is guaranteed. It really is a crap shoot, there are people on law review and in the top 10% who struck out at OCI and there are people who are neither of those and landed a big law job. Caveat Emptor

This type of knowledge comes with age. When you're 34 and have friends who are hiring partners at V&E, Gardere, Fulbright, Patton Boggs, Carrington Coleman, T&K, etc. throw all that ranking shit out the window. Just sayin'.

Don't be too sure. Even with great connections, it'll be tough to land those big firms if you're in the bottom 50%.

This is 100% true.

[Sunshine7]

I don't know if I should call up admissions and ask to be considered for PT as well as FT. I would really like to go to SMU but I dont know if my numbers will cut it. I have 157 LSAT and UGPA of 3.24 but I am finishing up my masters in acctng (3.9 GPA) and sitting for CPA exams. Any suggestions?

[TonYNWA]

I'm in via status checker as of 4/5 but still haven't received my packet to know about $$.

Does anyone know when deposits are tending to be due for this wave of acceptances, and when the Admitted Students day/weekend/bender is? I'm also looking at UH with significant $$ offered and if I haven't missed the day/weekend/bender I'd like to make sure I go to compare.

[BVest]

I'm in via status checker as of 4/5 but still haven't received my packet to know about $$.

Does anyone know when deposits are tending to be due for this wave of acceptances, and when the Admitted Students day/weekend/bender is? I'm also looking at UH with significant $$ offered and if I haven't missed the day/weekend/bender I'd like to make sure I go to compare.

Too bad it's not Baylor... you could just check the spreadsheet.

Don't know when deposits are due for this round, but my notification was 3/16 (by phone -- following week by letter) and deposit was due 4/1. Friday was Good Friday so I expect they were closed.

[swilson215]

I don't know if I should call up admissions and ask to be considered for PT as well as FT. I would really like to go to SMU but I dont know if my numbers will cut it. I have 157 LSAT and UGPA of 3.24 but I am finishing up my masters in acctng (3.9 GPA) and sitting for CPA exams. Any suggestions?

Are you a URM? That LSAT score is low for SMU in general, and unfortunately your post-grad education GPA doesn't really count.

[Sunshine7]

I don't know if I should call up admissions and ask to be considered for PT as well as FT. I would really like to go to SMU but I dont know if my numbers will cut it. I have 157 LSAT and UGPA of 3.24 but I am finishing up my masters in acctng (3.9 GPA) and sitting for CPA exams. Any suggestions?

Are you a URM? That LSAT score is low for SMU in general, and unfortunately your post-grad education GPA doesn't really count.

No not a URM.

[zoejordan]

I'm in via status checker as of 4/5 but still haven't received my packet to know about $$.

Does anyone know when deposits are tending to be due for this wave of acceptances, and when the Admitted Students day/weekend/bender is? I'm also looking at UH with significant $$ offered and if I haven't missed the day/weekend/bender I'd like to make sure I go to compare.

also in via status checker 4/5 and got the phone call yesterday. called the admissions office today and they gave scholarship info over the phone. they said that both the admitted students days have past, but they will set up on a tour/class visit if you want. no info on when deposits are due.

[zanzbar]

I just noticed status checker just updated to 4/10 Full time so I guess that means they finally sorted me. Usually how long after being sorted did y'all get a decision?