WUSTL c/o 2017 Applicants (2013-2014 Cycle) Forum

[BlackCanary]

Sorry to see you go for selfish reasons Cuse but happy for you. Can you say where you are going?

came down to CLS and UChi, picked the latter

congrats!

[Statu$studios]

Sorry to be “that guy”, but anybody hear any rumblings as to if they’re content with the class size and all that jazz? I’m pretty sure I’m on the last-boat-in/first-boat-out as far as the waitlist goes after my interview a few weeks ago and communications since.

[chuckbass]

Sorry to be “that guy”, but anybody hear any rumblings as to if they’re content with the class size and all that jazz? I’m pretty sure I’m on the last-boat-in/first-boat-out as far as the waitlist goes after my interview a few weeks ago and communications since.

Someone in the fb group posted that admissions told them that right now we have 6 sections of 40-45 people, so if people are dropping (which they still are), I'm not sure if the school will be rushing to fill their seats.

Also, don't say sorry that's totally a fair question and I understand that schools can really string people on the waitlist. I wouldn't say that you're not gonna make it in, but personally I don't think it's super likely at this point (but don't let that dissuade you at all that's only my opinion). Good luck though

[DoveBodyWash]

You better stay on TLS so I can panic send you PM's from time to time!

I would be offended if you didn't

If you're willing to answer I am curious why you transferred though, especially because getting into CLS and Chi means you absolutely had the grades to be a lock for biglaw. The only reason I could see would be clerking, although the increased tuition cost (As I assume transfers don't get scholarships?) would be pretty rough.

I'll try to be as informative as possible.

I want to be clear that I genuinely loved my time at WashU and leaving was a much harder decision than my peers seem to believe. The reason I decided to leave was partly because of a drop in class rank and the nature of WUSTL's OCI (i'm using the term OCI broadly to refer to all recruiting events).

(As you probably know, we have a pre-select system. Which is excellent if you're top 10%. HYSCCN have a lottery system)

As a WUSTL student u'll have an opportunity to apply to many top firms in the major markets and many smaller operations in the midwest. What you lack is all those firms in between. The main advantage of upgrading to UChi/CLS isn't that u get to see Cravath, it's that you gain an entire cohort of middle firms. At WUSTL the top 10-15% will have monopoly over the top firms by virtue of preselect. And the students who have some kind of ties to the midwest are generally okay as well, since the smaller firms prioritize ties over whether you were top third or top 25% or something. The kids who are bottom of the class are screwed no matter which non-HYSCCN they're at, so it's irrelevant here. The problem is all those kids between 10-15% and median who don't get pre-selected for top firms and don't have ties to midwest. They're in a strange deadzone where they're overqualified flight risks for WUSTL's foundational market (the midwest) but they're underqualified in comparison to T14 candidates and better-ranked classmates for the top firms in major markets.

Personally i think you're better off at WUSTL if you're top 10% than you would be transferring to HYSCCN. At UChi you get 50 bids with 45-55% yield rate for lottery screeners. At CLS you get 30 bids with roughly 50% yield rate. (This is according to the information that both CSO's gave me when i was admitted, i'm sure the yield fluctuates depending on how and where you bid). So as a UChi/CLS student you're looking at 15-25 interviews with firms who haven't actually evaluated you yet, so there's no real security other than having the opportunity to meet them.

At WUSTL if you're top 10%, you grade-on to Law Review, likely had dean's list both terms, and are Honors Scholars. My friend who is top 10% has over 25 PRESELECT screeners and COUNTING. This includes top Vault firms in NYC, DC, and Chicago. This is quantitatively better or equal to the number of screeners u'd get at UChi/CLS from their lottery. And it's qualitatively better because all those screeners are the result of firms looking at your application and determining that your credentials meet their requirements. So at WUSTL, a preselect screener is more like a mini-callback since you've already cleared the credential stage. The only real questions at that point are "Do we like you?" and "Do we have space for you?" If you end up top 10% and on substantial scholarship, not only should you stay, you'd actually be better off IMO. Unless you want California, then you should GTFO no matter what, we suck out there.

The problem is when you're not 10% and don't have ties to midwest (me). I dropped from 10% to 20% after the Spring term and missed law review. (I ruined my own chances at writing-on because I assumed I'd be grading-on and submitted shit submission LOL) I had some secondary honors like a CALI, some competition awards, etc... but nothing that would have given me a material boost in the hiring market over my top 10% peers, many of whom also have those same honors

Once my preselect invitations were out (didn't apply to Texas/west coast/atlanta, so all mine are out) I had an idea of what my prospects would be if i stayed. Ended with 1 invitation in Chicago, 2 in DC, 5 invitations and 3 alternates in NYC, and 2 CB's in my home market (from mass mailing). My Chicago screener was with a firm that i wouldn't be comfortable starting my career at due to shit they've been going through. Ultimately i decided that i had more to gain by leaving than by staying.

Regarding costs, my family agreed to cover enough of the cost to tip the scale. All this isn't to say that transferring is categorically the better decision under my circumstances. Perhaps I strike out completely at UChi's OCI. Perhaps I would have had very high offer-rate by staying at WUSTL. If I had maintained 10%, then I probably would have stayed after seeing the OCI mechanics at HYSCCN.

Feel free to PM me later on down the line if this is something that becomes relevant to you. For now, focus on dominating your 1L exams.

ETA: He is now at 29 interviews and counting.

[KanyeShrug]

Thanks for dropping that, cuse. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say us lowly 0Ls wish you the best.

[sublime]

..

[lhanvt13]

Cuse goes to school with a bunch of aspies now. No need be jealous.

[chuckbass]

Cuse goes to school with a bunch of aspies now. No need be jealous.

You go to a school with a bunch of boomers now.

[Dredd_2017]

Feel free to PM me

You saw it here first, cuse asked for this!

Thanks for the excellent breakdown on OCI at WUSTL and CCN! Following the WUSTL OCI thread and miscellaneous TLS knowledge had given me an idea but I didn't have any hard numbers. I see the risk calculation behind transferring makes a lot of sense, especially if you research the traditional cutoffs for the firms you bid at and skip on Wachtell and the like.

I'd also heard that transferring to a T6 from a T20 was easier than transferring from a TT or TTT, but I didn't realize how feasible it really was. I'm surprised more folks don't avail themselves of that opportunity if they're going for biglaw, it sounds like the right call if you're somewhere just outside the top 10-15%.

For now, focus on dominating your 1L exams.

Centering my chi in preparation for law school as we speak!

[DoveBodyWash]

if u're going to friend me, get profile picture. I don't trust people who don't have profile pictures.

[Fiona91216]

Cuse, I got a new avatar.

[Spikedude]

"Personally i think you're better off at WUSTL if you're top 10% than you would be transferring to HYS..."

lol I'm imagining a world where cuse is top 10% at wustl, gets admitted into all of HYS, and then chooses to stay in St. Louis. Unicorns are everywhere.

[DoveBodyWash]

"Personally i think you're better off at WUSTL if you're top 10% than you would be transferring to HYS..."

lol I'm imagining a world where you're top 10% at wustl, get admitted into all of HYS, and then choose to stay in St. Louis. Unicorns are everywhere.

haha wait i never said u'd be better off than going to HYS...

There's zero chance 10% WUSTL gets into Y, but i mean i could understand if someone was debt averse enough to turn down HS. Apparently lots of ppl on TLS would

[DoveBodyWash]

Cuse, I got a new avatar.

yes this one is much more accurate i approve

[rahulg91]

Thanks for all the amazing advice cuse! It's actually been really informative in this otherwise vague and stressful process. Best of luck at Chi! Do you know of your fellow top 20%ers were also relatively successful in their transfer process or are you just the most special of snowflakes?

[DoveBodyWash]

Thanks for all the amazing advice cuse! It's actually been really informative in this otherwise vague and stressful process. Best of luck at Chi! Do you know of your fellow top 20%ers were also relatively successful in their transfer process or are you just the most special of snowflakes?

PMed

[chuckbass]

Cuse, do you ever sleep?

[DoveBodyWash]

Cuse, do you ever sleep?

whaaat it's like 10am lol

[chuckbass]

Cuse, do you ever sleep?

whaaat it's like 10am lol

Exactly.

[DecisionTime999]

Personally i think you're better off at WUSTL if you're top 10% than you would be transferring to HYSCCN.

lol I'm imagining a world where cuse is top 10% at wustl, gets admitted into all of HYS, and then chooses to stay in St. Louis. Unicorns are everywhere.

haha wait i never said u'd be better off than going to HYS...

wat

[sublime]

..

[DecisionTime999]

From a pure economic standpoint, especially if you/your family is rich and won't get need aid, you may be better off at top 5% on a full ride at WUSTL than at Harvard as a transfer.

I'm not really taking a position on the point in question, merely expressing a bit of confusion at cuse's seemingly inconsistent posts. First he said you'd be better off at WUSTL in the top 10% than you would be transferring to HYSCCN, then he said he'd never said you'd be better off than going to HYS. My "wat" was meant to say something like, "um, yes you did."

[sublime]

..

[DoveBodyWash]

haha oh fuck i was looking at wrong part of my post. Personally i think HYS is a different case from CCN but there's lots of disagreement on how much more special HYS is. But from a purely "can i get job?" perspective, u don't gain a ton by going to HYS from WashU if you're already top 5-10%. Even HLS kids are limited to 35 bids.

[KanyeShrug]

Sup?