Splitters in Limbo Forum

[Teetime23]

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[zozo1717]

Just waiting on UVA and NYU here. Got dings at Berkeley and Columbia and W/L at Penn and Michigan. At least Georgetown accepted me relatively quickly.

Waiting on UVA too - I've been UR there since mid-Oct...

[Specter1389]

Hello my fellow splitters! Applied to 11 schools...yes, 11 since my LSAT score was average. 3.93 GPA with very strong "softs." Got into some schools with scholarships (University of Denver - full tuition, Marquette 35K, University of San Diego 16K, and ASU 5K). Still waiting on decisions from USC, Pepperdine, Miami & Loyola LA. Waitlisted at UCLA. Denied at Berkeley and University of Texas. The waiting game has become exhausting. At this point, I just want to know if I got in or not.

Have you used up all your takes? Why not sit out a year, devote a lot of time to studying, and crush the LSAT. Then you're looking at better schools with a lot of money. Don't waste that 3.93 GPA.

[squirtlesquad14]

Just waiting on UVA and NYU here. Got dings at Berkeley and Columbia and W/L at Penn and Michigan. At least Georgetown accepted me relatively quickly.

Waiting on UVA too - I've been UR there since mid-Oct...

I've been UR since early-Nvember...so not quite as bad, but I feel the pain.

[Specter1389]

Still waiting on Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, NYU, Penn, Duke, Michigan, Cornell. Received waivers from most and decided to blanket the T-14 minus Yale for the heck of it. Rejected to Cal Berkeley and Texas. Waitlisted at Columbia and put on hold at Northwestern. In at UVA and Georgetown. Don't know how likely it is I will attend a T-14 though as I am debt averse. Just need to wait and see if I get any scholarships before deciding between one of them and the University of Florida at zero debt.

[James.K.Polk]

Still waiting on Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, NYU, Penn, Duke, Michigan, Cornell. Received waivers from most and decided to blanket the T-14 minus Yale for the heck of it. Rejected to Cal Berkeley and Texas. Waitlisted at Columbia and put on hold at Northwestern. In at UVA and Georgetown. Don't know how likely it is I will attend a T-14 though as I am debt averse. Just need to wait and see if I get any scholarships before deciding between one of them and the University of Florida at zero debt.

We have pretty similar stats and schools - when did you apply? I've heard back from all except NYU and HLS.

[drblakedowns]

Hello my fellow splitters! Applied to 11 schools...yes, 11 since my LSAT score was average. 3.93 GPA with very strong "softs." Got into some schools with scholarships (University of Denver - full tuition, Marquette 35K, University of San Diego 16K, and ASU 5K). Still waiting on decisions from USC, Pepperdine, Miami & Loyola LA. Waitlisted at UCLA. Denied at Berkeley and University of Texas. The waiting game has become exhausting. At this point, I just want to know if I got in or not.

I don't know you or your exact situation, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. That being said, with your very good GPA, there may be a significant return on investment (in both scholarships and through job outcomes of the school you end up) in making sure you maximize your LSAT score.

There are a lot of other factors, so waiting a year may not be feasible, but if you are not over the moon with your options from this cycle (and you think you have room to grow on the LSAT--it is a learnable test), you should kick around the idea of taking a year, getting WE and putting yourself in a position to be the most successful at your desired career.

[Specter1389]

Still waiting on Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, NYU, Penn, Duke, Michigan, Cornell. Received waivers from most and decided to blanket the T-14 minus Yale for the heck of it. Rejected to Cal Berkeley and Texas. Waitlisted at Columbia and put on hold at Northwestern. In at UVA and Georgetown. Don't know how likely it is I will attend a T-14 though as I am debt averse. Just need to wait and see if I get any scholarships before deciding between one of them and the University of Florida at zero debt.

We have pretty similar stats and schools - when did you apply? I've heard back from all except NYU and HLS.

I applied to most back in October but retook the LSAT in December so did not go complete until then. Heard back from UVA and Georgetown almost immediately after getting my new score in. Where are you leaning on attending?

[Lexaholik]

Apologies in advance for the long post. I'm a splitter who had a successful cycle many years ago so I thought I'd provide some long term perspective for those of you who are counting down the days until you hear back.

As a splitter you will likely have two different outcomes. The most common one is that you will get into a decent school (but not one of your reaches) fairly early on in the process. Then you will want certainty in the process, so you will put down a deposit, rent an apartment, and get excited to start 1L year. It would have been nice to get into that T14, but a T25 ain't bad either so you make peace with going to the T25. This is the path most splitters end up taking.

However those who "max out" the ranking of the school they end up going to have to accept a lot of uncertainty for a really long time. So it's like you have a bunch of acceptances to good schools in hand but you want to hold out for that T14. That means hanging out on hold lists and waitlist throughout the summer. The summer is where the action is--other candidates are starting to make their choices and your reach schools are learning how many open spots they have left.

The reason I bring this up is to remind you that if you really want to get into X school, you should know that the discomfort associated with waiting is actually helpful to your cause because that's exactly what all the other marginal candidates are feeling. As a 2.9/170 I hated all the waiting too, but I also knew that the 3.0/172s; 2.8/175s; and 3.9/164s out were going through the same thing. I also knew a lot of them would get into some solid schools and withdraw from the waitlist.

That meant less competition for me.

got WL @ 1/3 of the places..my lease will run out soonish so hopefully i know where i will end up otherwise i will be homeless lol

Yeah I have a month-to-month lease so I won't be homeless, that being said it's a little uncomfortable not knowing where you'll live in 4 months time...

I know the uncertainty is tough, especially if you're facing tough housing choices. I just want to emphasize that if you are happy to wait all the way to the very end, you could get some amazing and incredible results. I thought I got into Northwestern fairly late (June) but after 1L year I learned that many of my friends got in off the waitlist in July and August. There were multiple people who got in days before orientation began--and I even heard a story of someone who got into multiple T14s at the very end and ended up negotiating some scholarship money.

I guess this is my long winded way of saying that your patience --and all that stressing out/waiting--will pay off. You obviously have no way to know for sure if you'll definitely get into your dream school, but your odds change dramatically towards the end of the cycle. I applied back when law school applications were super competitive, so I imagine schools will be scrambling even more nowadays than when I did.

I try to look at it as being fortunate that I am still able to get serious consideration at some of the best schools in the country even though I made some mistakes with my undergrad.

This is exactly the right mentality to have. If you're a low GPA high LSAT splitter you should be thankful for this opportunity. Many other doors are probably closed to you (medical school, etc.). Yet you have this opportunity not only to get into law school, but to get into an elite law school. If you pull this off correctly you can erase the mistakes of undergrad. That's why I told myself to give up certainty of knowing what law school I'd attend in exchange for waiting it out to max out the best school I could get into.

The last thing I want to say is that even though it seems like what school you end up getting into is a big deal, in the long term it doesn't matter anywhere as much as you think.

I know a lot of splitters who got into top schools easily and ended up with a lot of problems down the road (can't find jobs, failed the bar, etc.). I also know splitters who ended up attending lower ranked schools who dominated 1L year, made law review, landed an elite biglaw job, etc. Getting into a top law school, whether it's T14, T6, YHS, or whatever, is not the golden ticket you might think it is. Everything comes down to the work you put in over the long term. You might get lucky today (got into X school without being on the waitlist) but that luck is subject to change in multiple points down the road. You might get a B on your A+ law exam; you might get rejected from law review despite having top grades; you might get zero offers from biglaw firms, etc. A lot of these things are out of your control and rely heavily on luck but if you put in the work, over the long term you will more or less get what you deserve.

[capricasixx]

Apologies in advance for the long post.

No apology needed. Thank you for this sane and uplifting response. There's definitely an echo chamber here on TLS in which the biglaw-or-bust mentality and obsession with the numbers game get magnified to the point where it's easy to lose hope, so it's good to hear from someone who made it through to the other side and is doing well.

I know the uncertainty is tough, especially if you're facing tough housing choices. I just want to emphasize that if you are happy to wait all the way to the very end, you could get some amazing and incredible results.

This is really good perspective. I think for some of us the really difficult aspect of the uncertainty is having SOs who will be moving with us and wanting to give them at least a couple months' heads-up as to where we'll be living for the next three years. That being said, I can now cite your post to my partner when he gives me a hard time for not having it all figured out in the next two weeks!

[capricasixx]

Success is not as fun when you don't have your loved ones around you to share it with.

Cheezy but true! Wise words.

[drblakedowns]

However those who "max out" the ranking of the school they end up going to have to accept a lot of uncertainty for a really long time. So it's like you have a bunch of acceptances to good schools in hand but you want to hold out for that T14. That means hanging out on hold lists and waitlist throughout the summer. The summer is where the action is--other candidates are starting to make their choices and your reach schools are learning how many open spots they have left.

Thank you for the reality check, and your perspective as someone who has gone through the process. My question is, if you shoot the moon and then crap out, would you be in a worse position for next year's applications?

On one hand, there may be an opportunity to pick up a few points on the LSAT, but on the other there are not many months between the end of summer and putting an app in early to really beef up your WE, or other softs.

[Lexaholik]

However those who "max out" the ranking of the school they end up going to have to accept a lot of uncertainty for a really long time. So it's like you have a bunch of acceptances to good schools in hand but you want to hold out for that T14. That means hanging out on hold lists and waitlist throughout the summer. The summer is where the action is--other candidates are starting to make their choices and your reach schools are learning how many open spots they have left.

Thank you for the reality check, and your perspective as someone who has gone through the process. My question is, if you shoot the moon and then crap out, would you be in a worse position for next year's applications?

On one hand, there may be an opportunity to pick up a few points on the LSAT, but on the other there are not many months between the end of summer and putting an app in early to really beef up your WE, or other softs.

I'm not certain--but then again nobody other than the admissions committee really knows, and even then they can only speak to their own school.

Here's what I do know. If you crap out because they really liked you but there just wasn't enough room in the entering class to give you an offer, you're probably slightly better off because you are super motivated to (1) attend a top school; (2) attend their school; or (3) a combination of both. Law schools will assume you're more likely to accept if offered (as compared to other people--especially if you appeared super motivated the first time you were shooting the moon. This will help with their yield and ability to control LSAT medians.

If you crap out because there's something on your application that they really don't like, you're probably not going to get in the second time around either. You're not better off, but you're also not really worse off either.

So in one situation you're better off, in another you're in the same situation. (I should mention I don't think there's a signaling issue here i.e. that they'll reject you the second time because other schools didn't accept you.) So overall you're probably not going to be in a worse position for the next year's application.

You didn't ask about this but I'm thinking about a couple other possibilities that you could float without having to re-apply:

1. You could ask for deferred admission for the following year's class. That way you lose uncertainty on your end and it's just waiting for one year. If they say no, that may be a hint that there's something in your application that they don't like and won't admit you down the road either. A lot of schools probably wouldn't go for deferred admission but it's worth asking.

2. I haven't seen much of this on online forums but some schools have offered auto-transfers for rejected candidates. Basically they'll say to you "we like you but we have no space, but if you do well enough at the lower ranked law school you end up attending, we will accept you as a transfer for 2L." What ends up being "well enough" is unclear to me, but as I understand it, it's a lower bar than through conventional transfers. I've heard about this from a handful of people but as you can imagine, law schools and successful transfers don't really want to talk about this path.

[berek]

Thought I was holding out fine but I have finally succumbed to Splitter's Madness. I must have checked my remaining status checkers 5 times today. Why you gotta do me like this, UVa/Chicago/NYU??

[capricasixx]

2. I haven't seen much of this on online forums but some schools have offered auto-transfers for rejected candidates. Basically they'll say to you "we like you but we have no space, but if you do well enough at the lower ranked law school you end up attending, we will accept you as a transfer for 2L." What ends up being "well enough" is unclear to me, but as I understand it, it's a lower bar than through conventional transfers. I've heard about this from a handful of people but as you can imagine, law schools and successful transfers don't really want to talk about this path.

This is super interesting. There's very little info anywhere about transferring period, but I have never heard of an auto-transfer. I have heard that when you transfer you lose your 1L grades since that class curve is no longer relevant - I imagine the same would be true in this case? Still, could be worth it if your options are severely limited and, like me, you can't stomach the idea of staying in your hateful job for another year while you reapply...

[ampersaandy]

Joining the party! ...Misery loves company, right?

Waiting on Northwestern, Chicago, Harvard, and Stanford. Don't expect anything but ding's from HLS and SLS but figured I'd throw my name into the ring. Complete beginning - mid December.

[capricasixx]

First movement beyond UR I've seen on a status checker: Oregon says "The University of Oregon School of Law Admissions Committee has entered a decision regarding your application. We will send a decision letter via postal mail." Pretty confident this will be an admit, but I'm a little frustrated that they're making me wait even longer! I'm running out of hair to pull out.

Not even close to a top choice, just need SOMETHING to believe in at this point.

[BirdLawExpert]

First movement beyond UR I've seen on a status checker: Oregon says "The University of Oregon School of Law Admissions Committee has entered a decision regarding your application. We will send a decision letter via postal mail." Pretty confident this will be an admit, but I'm a little frustrated that they're making me wait even longer! I'm running out of hair to pull out.

Not even close to a top choice, just need SOMETHING to believe in at this point.

I BELIEVE IN YOU!!

[capricasixx]

First movement beyond UR I've seen on a status checker: Oregon says "The University of Oregon School of Law Admissions Committee has entered a decision regarding your application. We will send a decision letter via postal mail." Pretty confident this will be an admit, but I'm a little frustrated that they're making me wait even longer! I'm running out of hair to pull out.

Not even close to a top choice, just need SOMETHING to believe in at this point.

I BELIEVE IN YOU!!

[Are Dead]

I've been waitlisted at schools from every tier from the t6 to right outside the t14. No one ever said splitter life would be easy, but this feels ridiculous.

[berek]

I'd complain about my wait, but I'm pretty confident that I'll be quickly one-upped and this thread will turn into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[capricasixx]

I'd complain about my wait, but I'm pretty confident that I'll be quickly one-upped and this thread will turn into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

You, sir, can stay.

[capricasixx]

WAITLISTED AT LOYOLA - IT'S SOMETHING!

[Are Dead]

I'd complain about my wait, but I'm pretty confident that I'll be quickly one-upped and this thread will turn into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

nice

[drblakedowns]

I got my first ding of the cycle from Berkeley. I am not super surprised given (the myLSN graphs seem to suggest) that they are not splitter friendly and seem to have a GPA floor, but dings are not ideal.

On the other hand, at least it's an answer.