St. John's 2011 Cycle Forum

[BrownBears09]

you'll say this is stupid, but i have confidence in my ability to perform academically.

You and every other 0L.

[Stringer6]

You and every other 0L.

maybe. not all of them are wrong.

[BrownBears09]

You and every other 0L.

maybe. not all of them are wrong.

So you're saying that some are wrong and some are right? Fascinating.

[Aqualibrium]

You and every other 0L.

maybe. not all of them are wrong.

The overwhelming majority are in fact wrong. After all, 90% of the class can't possibly be in the top 10%. Good luck though.

[Stringer6]

The overwhelming majority are in fact wrong. After all, 90% of the class can't possibly be in the top 10%. Good luck though.

thanks for breaking it down. good luck with what?

[Stringer6]

So you're saying that some are wrong and some are right? Fascinating.

as is your contribution.

[Aqualibrium]

The overwhelming majority are in fact wrong. After all, 90% of the class can't possibly be in the top 10%. Good luck though.

thanks for breaking it down. good luck with what?

Good luck with school. As silly as I think it is for someone to go into school with the foolhardy belief that they are gonna dominate, I don't want any of you guys to fail. Why would I or anyone else want that?

[RW65]

You and every other 0L.

maybe. not all of them are wrong.

Look, it is great to start 1L thinking you're going to be top 10% and to work hard to achieve that goal. But in reality, everyone thinks that way. I've spoken to people who are in the bottom 1/3 who came in with full rides thinking that they would be on Law Review. Now they lost their scholarship, don't have jobs, and are stuck with a tremendous amount of debt. Things happen, your classmates are smart and most will work just as hard as you. Banking on getting top 10% and Law Review is a dangerous proposition. There are people who are top 5% who did not even make Law Review, so even if you are in the top 10% it is not a guarantee that you'll be on Law Review. Sure there are SJU grads working at Skadden and other large firms, but you need to realize that they are the exception and not the rule.

If you have a high GPA and low LSAT, RETAKE. I can't stress this enough. Get in the mid to high 160s and go to Fordham. Crack 170 and you're looking at T14 maybe with money. I can't express to you the significance of the difference between going to a school like SJU and going to Columbia/NYU. These better schools will open up opportunities for you that SJU never could. Sure, if you retake it may mean that you have to wait another year to start law school, but so what? Your legal career is going to be a long one, so one more year is basically insignificant. Additionally, the job market is either going to stay the same or get better, so the longer you wait the better your chances are of getting a job.

If you're getting a significant amount of scholarship money and can live frugally SJU might not be bad option for you. I know it was a good option for me and I'm still happy with my choice. The only thing that I suggest is being realistic about the school and about your options. Going to Cardozo or Brooklyn instead of SJU because they are higher ranked is a joke. Brooklyn, Cardozo, Rutgers, and SJU are all in the same boat. Without significant scholarship money they are all terrible choices. Go to the school that gives you the most money, trust me, you'll be happy you did.

[Stringer6]

I've spoken to people who are in the bottom 1/3 who came in with full rides thinking that they would be on Law Review.

people with full rides ending up bottom 1/3 has to be the exception rather than the rule, right?

Sure there are SJU grads working at Skadden and other large firms, but you need to realize that they are the exception and not the rule.

i know

If you have a high GPA and low LSAT, RETAKE. I can't stress this enough. Get in the mid to high 160s and go to Fordham. Crack 170 and you're looking at T14 maybe with money. I can't express to you the significance of the difference between going to a school like SJU and going to Columbia/NYU. These better schools will open up opportunities for you that SJU never could.

like i said, i probably won't be attending SJU. i got into fordham and will probably go there.

Good luck with school. As silly as I think it is for someone to go into school with the foolhardy belief that they are gonna dominate, I don't want any of you guys to fail. Why would I or anyone else want that?

thanks.

[RW65]

I've spoken to people who are in the bottom 1/3 who came in with full rides thinking that they would be on Law Review.

people with full rides ending up bottom 1/3 has to be the exception rather than the rule, right?

It is certainly not the rule, but it does happen. My year SJU gave out some sort of scholarship to 50% of the incoming class. In order to keep the scholarship you need to be in the top half of the class. Do the math, not everyone is keeping their scholarships. I know a number of people who came very close to losing their scholarships and some more who actually lost theirs.

Sure there are SJU grads working at Skadden and other large firms, but you need to realize that they are the exception and not the rule.

i know

Good. There is a lot of talk about "someone i know did blah blah blah and works blah blah blah" and it really isn't representative of what the majority of graduates are doing now. I think it is important to realize that SJU is not a guarantee that you'll get a great job, or even a good job. People are often so set on going to law school that they fail to recognize that it may be a terrible decision and that they'd be better off doing something else. Law school is a means to an end, getting a job. That's it. If you can't do that with your degree, what's the point?

My posts may come off as bashing SJU, but that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm very happy here and as I said it was a good decision for me. All I'm suggesting is that people do research, real research, to determine if it is a good school for them. I have friends that are here paying full price and think that they will have ~$400/month in student loan bills. People need to be informed before making such a huge decision.

[cowgirl_bebop]

A full-ride to law school is hard to pass up. I've already had to take out a great deal of student loans for undergrad, and Im trying to minimize my loans for law school. If I am going to go to law school, STJ for free would just make sense. There will be no money coming from family/friends, so I have to consider cost above all else.

RW65, I would like to ask you what your career plans are like for life after STJ? I am aware that the opportunities for students there are not as good as the opportunities at some schools, but obviously you thought (and still think) it was a good move. Why?

[RW65]

A full-ride to law school is hard to pass up. I've already had to take out a great deal of student loans for undergrad, and Im trying to minimize my loans for law school. If I am going to go to law school, STJ for free would just make sense. There will be no money coming from family/friends, so I have to consider cost above all else.

RW65, I would like to ask you what your career plans are like for life after STJ? I am aware that the opportunities for students there are not as good as the opportunities at some schools, but obviously you thought (and still think) it was a good move. Why?

I'm happy with my decision because I won't be crushed by student loan debt after graduation. SJU offered me a nice scholarship and I was able to keep it after 1L. I'm also very happy with the courses and professors I've taken. The school has given me a number of opportunities to hone my legal skills beyond the classroom.

As far as my career, I'm out there on a daily basis working to getting a job. I think reasonable_man may have mention in this thread that in order to get a job you need to hustle your ass of and have a bit of luck. When I say networking I'm talking about going to bar association meetings and meeting actual practicing attorneys. You need to develop your relationships with these attorneys over the course of your law school career. This way, when something opens up they think of you without you having to ask. The judge I worked for this summer is constantly talking to people about their hiring needs for this summer and has even recommended me to a few attorneys. I'm confident that if I keep doing what I'm doing something is going to open up. That said, it is really tough and stressful for a lot of people at SJU, myself included. A lot of people get discouraged and aren't really looking at the moment. This is an easy trap to fall into when a ton of others don't have jobs as well. The important thing is to stay positive and keep hustling. It seems like practicing attorneys can smell desperate law students a mile away. You need to present yourself in a way that is not desperate and depressed over the job market. I'm sort of rambling here so if you have any other questions just ask.

[derrminater]

RW65, what is the student life like at SJU? Would you say there is a lot for law students to do, as in organizations and other campus events? How about the fitness center?

[RW65]

RW65, what is the student life like at SJU? Would you say there is a lot for law students to do, as in organizations and other campus events? How about the fitness center?

Fitness center is nice, its about a 5 minute walk from the law school. I'm generally there 4-5 times a week and really enjoy the facility.

Campus life is what you make of it. There's usually something to do and people are always around. There are a number of student organizations which host various speakers throughout the semester. Keep in mind that SJU is really a commuter school so there isn't anything really happening on the weekends.

[derrminater]

Interesting. What have you done for housing? I hear the "on campus" dorms are about a mile away. Do you have any experience with these facilities?

[RW65]

Interesting. What have you done for housing? I hear the "on campus" dorms are about a mile away. Do you have any experience with these facilities?

DePaul is nice enough, and about a 10 minute bus ride from campus. You share the apartment with 2 other people. To me, this was a huge drawback considering the cost. You can find reasonable housing close to school for $1,000-$1,500 per month.

[Woods, Elle]

If there's a seat deposit and transcript update in my requirements list, does that mean I'm accepted?

Hopefully the mail will finally come today...haha. Once it comes I will post here with other info.

[cowgirl_bebop]

Letter came today. Full scholarship as well. 90% chance Im going.

[derrminater]

Nice, it looks like this school just hands out money

[ilovesf]

My letter also came today, and I also got a full scholarship. I'm really amazed at how many they are giving out! St Johns wasn't on the top of my list, I actually applied because I had a fee waiver, but now I think I'll visit and consider it a lot more seriously.

[Woods, Elle]

When were you guys notified that you got a decision sent? I was 12/9 and called last Thursday, and they told me it takes awhile with the mail... but it shouldn't take 2 weeks. I'm thinking of calling again, now that so many people have gotten their letters.

Btw do you also have the seat deposits/immunization papers/transcript on your status checkers? I think I got in since that's there... it would be nice to know for sure though/see if I got money though!

[derrminater]

Yes I have that too, i feel like if you have that there is a pretty solid chance you're in

[cowgirl_bebop]

When were you guys notified that you got a decision sent? I was 12/9 and called last Thursday, and they told me it takes awhile with the mail... but it shouldn't take 2 weeks. I'm thinking of calling again, now that so many people have gotten their letters.

Btw do you also have the seat deposits/immunization papers/transcript on your status checkers? I think I got in since that's there... it would be nice to know for sure though/see if I got money though!

I still dont have that. It still just has the regular screen with the checked requirements and "a decision has been made". But Im sure you got it, so its good news for you. Hopefully this generous scholarship trend continues for you guys. I know some of the scholarships have top 50% requirements, but others, like mine, only require "good academic standing".

Good luck!!

[ilovesf]

When were you guys notified that you got a decision sent? I was 12/9 and called last Thursday, and they told me it takes awhile with the mail... but it shouldn't take 2 weeks. I'm thinking of calling again, now that so many people have gotten their letters.

Btw do you also have the seat deposits/immunization papers/transcript on your status checkers? I think I got in since that's there... it would be nice to know for sure though/see if I got money though!

I still dont have that. It still just has the regular screen with the checked requirements and "a decision has been made". But Im sure you got it, so its good news for you. Hopefully this generous scholarship trend continues for you guys. I know some of the scholarships have top 50% requirements, but others, like mine, only require "good academic standing".

Good luck!!

Weird. My scholarship requires top 40% for full, top 55% to keep 75% and top 65% to keep 55% of the scholarship. Even then though I don't feel like those requirements are that strict, I've seen worse.

[cowgirl_bebop]

When were you guys notified that you got a decision sent? I was 12/9 and called last Thursday, and they told me it takes awhile with the mail... but it shouldn't take 2 weeks. I'm thinking of calling again, now that so many people have gotten their letters.

Btw do you also have the seat deposits/immunization papers/transcript on your status checkers? I think I got in since that's there... it would be nice to know for sure though/see if I got money though!

I still dont have that. It still just has the regular screen with the checked requirements and "a decision has been made". But Im sure you got it, so its good news for you. Hopefully this generous scholarship trend continues for you guys. I know some of the scholarships have top 50% requirements, but others, like mine, only require "good academic standing".

Good luck!!

Weird. My scholarship requires top 40% for full, top 55% to keep 75% and top 65% to keep 55% of the scholarship. Even then though I don't feel like those requirements are that strict, I've seen worse.

Which scholarship did you get? I got the Ron Brown.