TLS c/o 2020 - In #Squad We Trust Forum

[JC2017]

Anyone else seen Wizard People, Dear Reader? As far as I'm concerned it's canon

One of the funniest things that exists in the universe.

Ronnie tells Harry that he’s a pot of coffee by day, bottle of wine by night type of guy.

Harry says, “Triple that, and you got me.”

They laugh a congenial laugh and both of them realize that they were instant friends. Friends forever.

[S.Picquery]

Wait I'm kind of confused. What happens to wizard-born children that don't make it to Hogwarts or the other schools in England (since I'm assuming there's more wizard children than there are seats at these schools)? Do they have like a list of second-tier wizards schools?

There was a tradition for homeschooling as mentioned in secondary Potterverse materials. However, Hogwarts does have the space for all wizarding children within the UK limits (see: Pottermore).

[jjcorvino]

Ok enough of Harry Potter. More serious convo, in Star Wars, the Jedi were basically an interplanetary peacekeeping force. They also served as a group for dispute resolution. At the Jedi Academy do they teach arbitration? Can you get a dual degree in the force and law?

I wonder what sort of softs you need for the Jedi Academy JD.

I always thought the peace keeping abilities had to be innate, it was what separated those admitted into the academy from the sith and untrained jedi. So I don't know if they would teach it.

I have a combined question though:

In Star Wars, and HP, is there secondary/post-secondary education? It seems that everyone goes through rather general training and is then placed into highly specific positions. I guess Jedi training is rather specific, but there is still further specialization that we see among the council. Is there more specialized education or is it all otjt?

I always thought this was weird in fantasy/sci-fi. There is always one school that everyone goes to and there never seems to be a choice. Everyone just gets in and goes.

I really liked how Ender's game handled the background. They spoke specifically about the selection process and how exclusive the school was. Although that was really the whole point of the book so I guess they couldn't not talk about it.

The selectivity seems to be a baked-in part of the fantasy -- the main character is somehow better/smarter/more worthy than their mundane peers and gets swept away into a hidden world of magic and power which has to be exclusive by default. We're not concerned with other schools because Harry, Ender, Anakin, etc. get into the best one.

The Magicians by Lev Grossman is a decent (but flawed) satire of the genre that's good reading if you can tolerate some really obnoxious characters. Its Harry Potter surrogate isn't a selfless and tragic orphan, but an arrogant overachieving gunner type, and so is everyone else at its Hogwarts.

That makes sense. I also see why it is popular. My favorite part of fantasy/sci-fi are usually the origin stories when they first discover their powers/abilities. I think it would be a bit boring to spend half a book describing how Harry wrote personal statements and submitted applications to the best wizarding schools.

[S.Picquery]

Speaking of Harry Potter, are there wizard/witch lawyers? Like, they make magical contracts and spend all day doing discovery for Ministry of Magic V. Weasley for his illegal muggle experiments?

they had a judiciary (the wizengamot) so that seems to imply some kind of wizard jurisprudence

Yeah, but like any headmaster could just provide representation without the client even asking, so would they have focused attorneys?

As I understand it, the wizengamot was supposed to be a commentary on the ineffectiveness on British parliament and their legal system. It was part of the books' overarching themes of "don't trust the gov't/authority just because they have a title." There are wizengamot procedures and laws, but as we've seen in both the source and secondary materials, there is no formal representation system comparable to what muggles (or no-maj, if you're a heathen) have.

I helped write a Potterverse RPG in undergrad and had a new minister gain popularity because she rewrote how the wizengamot worked, and how the Department of Magical Law Enforcement conducted investigations. We had to create dedicated Voices (lawyers) for those on trial -- the premise was after the war, the Order and the Death Eaters were all considered terrorists. Also Wizard Brexit was happening. Things got weird.

Please tell me you attached the RPG notes as an addendum on your applications

Why do you think Mich accepted me a week after my app went complete? I called them "Hogwarts" and they knew what that meant to me.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

Speaking of Harry Potter, are there wizard/witch lawyers? Like, they make magical contracts and spend all day doing discovery for Ministry of Magic V. Weasley for his illegal muggle experiments?

they had a judiciary (the wizengamot) so that seems to imply some kind of wizard jurisprudence

Yeah, but like any headmaster could just provide representation without the client even asking, so would they have focused attorneys?

As I understand it, the wizengamot was supposed to be a commentary on the ineffectiveness on British parliament and their legal system. It was part of the books' overarching themes of "don't trust the gov't/authority just because they have a title." There are wizengamot procedures and laws, but as we've seen in both the source and secondary materials, there is no formal representation system comparable to what muggles (or no-maj, if you're a heathen) have.

I helped write a Potterverse RPG in undergrad and had a new minister gain popularity because she rewrote how the wizengamot worked, and how the Department of Magical Law Enforcement conducted investigations. We had to create dedicated Voices (lawyers) for those on trial -- the premise was after the war, the Order and the Death Eaters were all considered terrorists. Also Wizard Brexit was happening. Things got weird.

Please tell me you attached the RPG notes as an addendum on your applications

Why do you think Mich accepted me a week after my app went complete? I called them "Hogwarts" and they knew what that meant to me.

You are far and away the resident HP expert so I will just start quoting you in all Qs:

Are there non-goblin banks? Also in general how does their monetary system work? Does everyone have a vault in just gringots and they have to go get all the cash they need from their vault? It just seems odd that everyone has to go to their own personal vault, it the 1980s/90s and MAGIC, why does it seem rudimentary fiscal logistics like note based payment has escaped them.

E: I guess apparition is a thing so maybe no one really cares about having to jump back and forth but, I wouldn't even want to sit on that freaking train car to get to my vault, even if I could jump poof to the bank

[S.Picquery]

Wait I'm kind of confused. What happens to wizard-born children that don't make it to Hogwarts or the other schools in England (since I'm assuming there's more wizard children than there are seats at these schools)? Do they have like a list of second-tier wizards schools?

OMG! That would explain the resentment of Voldy's followers toward muggle-borns. They believe the muggle-borns are taking their places at the schools that they think they have the right to attend. ::mind blown::

Do you think Hogwarts reviews muggle candidates on the same field as wizard children?? Or do think once they admit all of the wizarding family children first, they dip into the muggle pool?

The fact that Crabbe & Goyle were accepted indicates that they might just accept all Wizard children first and then start accepting the top muggles.

If you wait to dip into the muggle pool after admitting all wizarding family kids you're risking having muggle-borns with magical skills running around untrained. Could you imagine the havoc untrained wizards would create? There's no way the Ministry would allow that.

Wait, I thought muggles won't even know magic exists if they don't get their Hogwarts acceptance letters...

Yeah, but all that pent up magical ability causes all kinds of craziness.

SN: still really undecided on Fantastic Beasts

I'm so sorry, y'all but you started talking Potterverse, and it's like i came back from the dead.

Hogwarts WILL NOT review "muggle candidates." Muggles have a hard enough time living, and not noticing magic (I can source that if you want, but just read the first book). Also there are other schools that they can attend! Draco Malfoy almost went to Durmstrang, but ended up at Hogwarts because his Mom wanted him closer to home. The only reason a wizard-born person wouldn't get into any of these schools is if they don't show any signs of magical ability (this is called a "squib").

Voldy's followers are racists, it has nothing to do with the school. Hogwarts can shift and make space, which is also findable on the wiki or Pottermore.

Crabbe and Goyle may be shit humans but they can do magic. They have every right to be at Hogwarts as say... Ron does.

Magical children SHOULD NOT be left untrained. Whether it's a formal education or homeschooling (which was very popular pre-Hogwarts), they need to learn to use it and control it. Whether you're down for FBaWtFT of not, Arianna Dumbledore (Albus Dumbles' sister--this is a big ol' spoiler so read no further if you want to avoid) is the PERFECT example of the consequences of leaving magical children untrained.

Muggles won't know unless things are literally pointed out to them. Stan Shunpike said it best, "Muggles? They don't see nothing, do they?" And most establishments have charms on them to divert muggle attention anyway (see: the Quidditch World Cup).

I probably missed something y'all said but omg I love HP. So sorry...

[jjcorvino]

Speaking of Harry Potter, are there wizard/witch lawyers? Like, they make magical contracts and spend all day doing discovery for Ministry of Magic V. Weasley for his illegal muggle experiments?

they had a judiciary (the wizengamot) so that seems to imply some kind of wizard jurisprudence

Yeah, but like any headmaster could just provide representation without the client even asking, so would they have focused attorneys?

As I understand it, the wizengamot was supposed to be a commentary on the ineffectiveness on British parliament and their legal system. It was part of the books' overarching themes of "don't trust the gov't/authority just because they have a title." There are wizengamot procedures and laws, but as we've seen in both the source and secondary materials, there is no formal representation system comparable to what muggles (or no-maj, if you're a heathen) have.

I helped write a Potterverse RPG in undergrad and had a new minister gain popularity because she rewrote how the wizengamot worked, and how the Department of Magical Law Enforcement conducted investigations. We had to create dedicated Voices (lawyers) for those on trial -- the premise was after the war, the Order and the Death Eaters were all considered terrorists. Also Wizard Brexit was happening. Things got weird.

Please tell me you attached the RPG notes as an addendum on your applications

Why do you think Mich accepted me a week after my app went complete? I called them "Hogwarts" and they knew what that meant to me.

You are far and away the resident HP expert so I will just start quoting you in all Qs:

Are there non-goblin banks? Also in general how does their monetary system work? Does everyone have a vault in just gringots and they have to go get all the cash they need from their vault? It just seems odd that everyone has to go to their own personal vault, it the 1980s/90s and MAGIC, why does it seem rudimentary fiscal logistics like note based payment has escaped them

They are behind on a lot of things in the wizarding world. For example, no internet?! You have to go to the library to read and research every single question. It would be super useful to be able to search online for that spell you need.

[Kopetz]

Speaking of Harry Potter, are there wizard/witch lawyers? Like, they make magical contracts and spend all day doing discovery for Ministry of Magic V. Weasley for his illegal muggle experiments?

they had a judiciary (the wizengamot) so that seems to imply some kind of wizard jurisprudence

Yeah, but like any headmaster could just provide representation without the client even asking, so would they have focused attorneys?

As I understand it, the wizengamot was supposed to be a commentary on the ineffectiveness on British parliament and their legal system. It was part of the books' overarching themes of "don't trust the gov't/authority just because they have a title." There are wizengamot procedures and laws, but as we've seen in both the source and secondary materials, there is no formal representation system comparable to what muggles (or no-maj, if you're a heathen) have.

I helped write a Potterverse RPG in undergrad and had a new minister gain popularity because she rewrote how the wizengamot worked, and how the Department of Magical Law Enforcement conducted investigations. We had to create dedicated Voices (lawyers) for those on trial -- the premise was after the war, the Order and the Death Eaters were all considered terrorists. Also Wizard Brexit was happening. Things got weird.

Please tell me you attached the RPG notes as an addendum on your applications

Why do you think Mich accepted me a week after my app went complete? I called them "Hogwarts" and they knew what that meant to me.

You are far and away the resident HP expert so I will just start quoting you in all Qs:

Are there non-goblin banks? Also in general how does their monetary system work? Does everyone have a vault in just gringots and they have to go get all the cash they need from their vault? It just seems odd that everyone has to go to their own personal vault, it the 1980s/90s and MAGIC, why does it seem rudimentary fiscal logistics like note based payment has escaped them

Also what does it really mean to be a "poor" wizard like the Weasleys? They've got a big house on their own land, etc., but they wear hand-me-down clothes etc. Can magic not create clothing? Is the wizarding economy entirely comprised mostly of specialized tools (wands, etc.,) books, and veblen goods?

[jjcorvino]

Also what does it really mean to be a "poor" wizard like the Weasleys? They've got a big house on their own land, etc., but they wear hand-me-down clothes etc. Can magic not create clothing? Is the wizarding economy entirely comprised mostly of specialized tools (wands, etc.,) books, and veblen goods?

I think that making high quality clothing, furniture and tools is difficult. It would be the same as in our world. Sure, I might be able to look up online how to make a table, but a master carpenter will make a table that is of much higher quality.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

They are behind on a lot of things in the wizarding world. For example, no internet?! You have to go to the library to read and research every single question. It would be super useful to be able to search online for that spell you need.

Sure, but this aspect is centuries behind. I can understand that the books were set in a time when the internet had not yet surpassed the research capabilities of libraries. Plus some of the books are ancient and in dead languages, that would require a lot to transpose, but banking that extended beyond just protecting precious medals seems like something they should have picked up.

If they don't have a note based system how do these goblins make money, are they charging everyone a fee for storage or is there lending activity going on?

[S.Picquery]

You are far and away the resident HP expert so I will just start quoting you in all Qs:

Are there non-goblin banks? Also in general how does their monetary system work? Does everyone have a vault in just gringots and they have to go get all the cash they need from their vault? It just seems odd that everyone has to go to their own personal vault, it the 1980s/90s and MAGIC, why does it seem rudimentary fiscal logistics like note based payment has escaped them

There is, sadly, only one "wizard bank." This is because travel is so easy for them, but it's also stupid and antiquated, much like a lot of things wizards do (see: use of quills). But for real, a lotof what they do is to maintain a lifestyle and that stems from a lot of antiquated values.

Their monetary system is also dumb af. I love it. There are only 3 types of "money," but you can totally just tell a goblin to move x amountto y person's vault.The money is straight up gold, silver, and bronze coins. Heaviest shit ever, but I'm sure it's satisfying literally slamming gold onto a counter to buy a round of drinks. Anyway... Gold galleons have the most value, then silver sickles (there are 17 sickles to a galleon), and bronze knuts (29 knuts to a sickle). Money only works btw, because it is an exception to Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration. Just like you can't create food out of nothing, you can't just make money. Plus they all have serial numbers and goblins can tell if it's a fake, and non-goblin made. So, if you're using the bank, ever, it's near impossible to fake.

You make a total valid point, but as I say, a lot of this is for the #aesthetic that wizards are OBSESSED with (it's part of the whole staying separate from muggles thing), and they can just ask a goblin to make the transfers for them. Because wizards are dicks and dgaf if half the shit they doturns non-wizard sentient beings into servants (don't get me started on house elves).

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

Also what does it really mean to be a "poor" wizard like the Weasleys? They've got a big house on their own land, etc., but they wear hand-me-down clothes etc. Can magic not create clothing? Is the wizarding economy entirely comprised mostly of specialized tools (wands, etc.,) books, and veblen goods?

I think that making high quality clothing, furniture and tools is difficult. It would be the same as in our world. Sure, I might be able to look up online how to make a table, but a master carpenter will make a table that is of much higher quality.

This is getting down into the very basics of HP but whatever I need the posts. How does the magic work?

Like is it truly more difficult to do a spell better? what is the exertion there? is it just about getting the wand motion more right?

[NotAGolfer]

they had a judiciary (the wizengamot) so that seems to imply some kind of wizard jurisprudence

Yeah, but like any headmaster could just provide representation without the client even asking, so would they have focused attorneys?

As I understand it, the wizengamot was supposed to be a commentary on the ineffectiveness on British parliament and their legal system. It was part of the books' overarching themes of "don't trust the gov't/authority just because they have a title." There are wizengamot procedures and laws, but as we've seen in both the source and secondary materials, there is no formal representation system comparable to what muggles (or no-maj, if you're a heathen) have.

I helped write a Potterverse RPG in undergrad and had a new minister gain popularity because she rewrote how the wizengamot worked, and how the Department of Magical Law Enforcement conducted investigations. We had to create dedicated Voices (lawyers) for those on trial -- the premise was after the war, the Order and the Death Eaters were all considered terrorists. Also Wizard Brexit was happening. Things got weird.

Please tell me you attached the RPG notes as an addendum on your applications

Why do you think Mich accepted me a week after my app went complete? I called them "Hogwarts" and they knew what that meant to me.

You are far and away the resident HP expert so I will just start quoting you in all Qs:

Are there non-goblin banks? Also in general how does their monetary system work? Does everyone have a vault in just gringots and they have to go get all the cash they need from their vault? It just seems odd that everyone has to go to their own personal vault, it the 1980s/90s and MAGIC, why does it seem rudimentary fiscal logistics like note based payment has escaped them

They are behind on a lot of things in the wizarding world. For example, no internet?! You have to go to the library to read and research every single question. It would be super useful to be able to search online for that spell you need.

Seriously. I mean, they send the majority of their communication via owls. Muggles are far more efficient. I suppose there is the faster mode of sending messages via patronus, but that doesn't seem to be widely used and also has plenty of its own limitations.

[S.Picquery]

Also what does it really mean to be a "poor" wizard like the Weasleys? They've got a big house on their own land, etc., but they wear hand-me-down clothes etc. Can magic not create clothing? Is the wizarding economy entirely comprised mostly of specialized tools (wands, etc.,) books, and veblen goods?

Ah! As I mentioned above, Gamp's law precludes money! There are certain things you can't just create from nothing. So, when you need something that's either beyond your skill or knowledge (like books0, you have to purchase it with money. A house can be made of raw materials and binding magic (just look at the architecture of the Borrow--that shit ain't sound. It's being held up by mad Weasley magic, whereas the Malfoys likely paid someone more skilled in that type of magic to create their fucking gorgeous manor). You can create clothing from other things with magic, but you need to have... something. The wizard economy is mostly skills based, and knowledge based. In terms of "stuff" you're buying what you can't make, or can't make with skill. Like you would go to Madame Malkin's for robes because you're not great at tailoring magic. Things like that. Let me know if I answered your question entirely

[jjcorvino]

Also what does it really mean to be a "poor" wizard like the Weasleys? They've got a big house on their own land, etc., but they wear hand-me-down clothes etc. Can magic not create clothing? Is the wizarding economy entirely comprised mostly of specialized tools (wands, etc.,) books, and veblen goods?

I think that making high quality clothing, furniture and tools is difficult. It would be the same as in our world. Sure, I might be able to look up online how to make a table, but a master carpenter will make a table that is of much higher quality.

This is getting down into the very basics of HP but whatever I need the posts. How does the magic work?

Like is it truly more difficult to do a spell better? what is the exertion there? is it just about getting the wand motion more right?

They never really get into it fully. I think there is a combination of innate "magic" with the practice of actually doing the motions/words and imagining the spell in their minds correctly.

Other books have much better magic systems. Harry Potter's wasn't very well thought out in my opinion. For example, I really like the system in Eragon (even though the books are mediocre at best), where magic drains physical ability at the same rate as actually doing the thing. So you cannot lift a building using magic, but you can pinch an artery in the neck pretty easily that kills someone.

[S.Picquery]

Seriously. I mean, they send the majority of their communication via owls. Muggles are far more efficient. I suppose there is the faster mode of sending messages via patronus, but that doesn't seem to be widely used and also has plenty of its own limitations.

#aesthetic But there are faster ways, and we've seen them. House elves, patronuses, floo network, etc. etc.

[BoyJord]

Also what does it really mean to be a "poor" wizard like the Weasleys? They've got a big house on their own land, etc., but they wear hand-me-down clothes etc. Can magic not create clothing? Is the wizarding economy entirely comprised mostly of specialized tools (wands, etc.,) books, and veblen goods?

I think that making high quality clothing, furniture and tools is difficult. It would be the same as in our world. Sure, I might be able to look up online how to make a table, but a master carpenter will make a table that is of much higher quality.

This is getting down into the very basics of HP but whatever I need the posts. How does the magic work?

Like is it truly more difficult to do a spell better? what is the exertion there? is it just about getting the wand motion more right?

I need to start asking questions. Lol

[Leliana]

S.Picquery, your HP knowledge is commendable. This discussion is making my morning

[Kopetz]

Also what does it really mean to be a "poor" wizard like the Weasleys? They've got a big house on their own land, etc., but they wear hand-me-down clothes etc. Can magic not create clothing? Is the wizarding economy entirely comprised mostly of specialized tools (wands, etc.,) books, and veblen goods?

Ah! As I mentioned above, Gamp's law precludes money! There are certain things you can't just create from nothing. So, when you need something that's either beyond your skill or knowledge (like books0, you have to purchase it with money. A house can be made of raw materials and binding magic (just look at the architecture of the Borrow--that shit ain't sound. It's being held up by mad Weasley magic, whereas the Malfoys likely paid someone more skilled in that type of magic to create their fucking gorgeous manor). You can create clothing from other things with magic, but you need to have... something. The wizard economy is mostly skills based, and knowledge based. In terms of "stuff" you're buying what you can't make, or can't make with skill. Like you would go to Madame Malkin's for robes because you're not great at tailoring magic. Things like that. Let me know if I answered your question entirely

This is an awesome response, thanks.

[BoyJord]

S.Picquery, your HP knowledge is commendable. This discussion is making my morning

+1

[SybillAnnDorsett]

S.Picquery, your HP knowledge is commendable. This discussion is making my morning

[S.Picquery]

Also what does it really mean to be a "poor" wizard like the Weasleys? They've got a big house on their own land, etc., but they wear hand-me-down clothes etc. Can magic not create clothing? Is the wizarding economy entirely comprised mostly of specialized tools (wands, etc.,) books, and veblen goods?

I think that making high quality clothing, furniture and tools is difficult. It would be the same as in our world. Sure, I might be able to look up online how to make a table, but a master carpenter will make a table that is of much higher quality.

This is getting down into the very basics of HP but whatever I need the posts. How does the magic work?

Like is it truly more difficult to do a spell better? what is the exertion there? is it just about getting the wand motion more right?

They never really get into it fully. I think there is a combination of innate "magic" with the practice of actually doing the motions/words and imagining the spell in their minds correctly.

Other books have much better magic systems. Harry Potter's wasn't very well thought out in my opinion. For example, I really like the system in Eragon (even though the books are mediocre at best), where magic drains physical ability at the same rate as actually doing the thing. So you cannot lift a building using magic, but you can pinch an artery in the neck pretty easily that kills someone.

The magic in HP isn't supposed to be well-defined. It was Tolkein-ian in that way. Eragon's strict rules are fine and good, but not for this story. Most HP magic is subtle and when it's not it's usually "easier." But the fact that it'sa combo of innate talent and also something that can be learned is a larger part of the theme of the books moving from british boarding school adventure to the story of the second rise and fall of Voldemort.

[S.Picquery]

S.Picquery, your HP knowledge is commendable. This discussion is making my morning

lol my tar and name are the president of the Magical Congress of the United States. I was never trying to be subtle about my weird knowledge base. But let me tell you, I have won many a bar trivia contest. #worthit

[S.Picquery]

They are behind on a lot of things in the wizarding world. For example, no internet?! You have to go to the library to read and research every single question. It would be super useful to be able to search online for that spell you need.

Sure, but this aspect is centuries behind. I can understand that the books were set in a time when the internet had not yet surpassed the research capabilities of libraries. Plus some of the books are ancient and in dead languages, that would require a lot to transpose, but banking that extended beyond just protecting precious medals seems like something they should have picked up.

If they don't have a note based system how do these goblins make money, are they charging everyone a fee for storage or is there lending activity going on?

Also, things that are inherently part of muggle tech don't work around too much magic (this was also mentioned in Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone). The magic interferes. A computer straight up wouldn't work at a place as magical as Hogwarts or the Ministry of Magic, where it might be most used.

The goblins are not mentioned to charge, but if there aren't wills or if someone dies in prison or things like that, the goblins have been known to -- errr -- inherit their belongings. Also goblins do other stuff, they forge like nobody's business (see: the sword of Gryffindor)

[S.Picquery]

Wait I'm kind of confused. What happens to wizard-born children that don't make it to Hogwarts or the other schools in England (since I'm assuming there's more wizard children than there are seats at these schools)? Do they have like a list of second-tier wizards schools?

Lol. It always seemed to me like every wizard kid was guaranteed a seat at Hogwarts.

I would assume you're an auto admit at whatever school your parents went to.

but if your parents went to Hogwarts but then, say, immigrated to the US and now work at MACUSA... wouldn't you be at Ilvermorny?

You could prob go to either. School visits!!

You actually could go to either! But, let us not forget that there are other US schools outside of Ilvermorny. In GoF we see the existance of the Salem Academy of Witches. Morbid, I know.