UIUC 2015 Forum

[Opie]

You can't assume you're going to be top 10%, and that's why UIUC is a better investment. If you can get top 10% at Loyola then you can probably get it at Illinois too. MAYBE we can think that top 10% at both schools will give you access to some of the same Chicago firms, but it's much more likely you'll be closer to median and the differences in employment opportunity as you move closer to median on the curve is where the differences are really significant.

Also, the "not reporting salary" figure isn't just a bunch of people with great jobs who didn't feel like sending in their job information form. If you get a job at a top firm the school's going to know and you're going to be counted. I'd wager that number of students the top 3 quartiles on LSN are the only ones actually in that range, and the vast majority are significantly lower.

+1

Top 10% at any respectable school will eventually get you a decent job, but top 10% is seriously like 20 people.

[Gail]

Have a family friend who went to LUC. Not sure where he ended up grade wise, but it's been 3 years and he has yet to encounter a legal job of any kind.


Just saying.

[givemea170]

I hear what you are saying about can't count on top 10%. I'm confident but I won't assume.

As for Jenny from Illinois, she responded that she would reconsider my scholarship offer but she wants to hear my offers from other schools.


Edit: I wish the other schools would hurry up and send me their offers. Nothing yet from Iowa, Indiana, etc, most others on my list.

[givemea170]

Have a family friend who went to LUC. Not sure where he ended up grade wise, but it's been 3 years and he has yet to encounter a legal job of any kind.


Just saying.

[mattviphky]

Or let me put it this way...

Do you think the job prospects would be much different if I was top 10% at LUC or in the middle range at UIUC?

Honestly...UIUC at median. I applied to LUC, and I would have liked to go. But I knew when I was filling out my application that they give shit for scholarships. The CoA just isn't worth it for the typical student. I mean, top 10% would probably be ok, but I've heard that grades can get screwy with the curve. While job prospects might be better within top 10% at LUC as compared to median at UIUC, you just can't guarantee your rank. If you are median at UIUC, you can still try to find something in Stl, indy, springfield, peoria...all around the midwest, really. Also, LRAP is something to use. I hate putting LRAP out there as if public work is some sort of fall back. But I don't think it would be terribly difficult to be competitive from UIUC when applying for asst. state's attorney positions. Sure you would start off making 40k, but all you would need to pay back would be 2k a year for 6 years for your debt to be totally forgiven. I was looking at their LRAP program, and it looks reasonable. They calculate your contribution based on the difference between your salary and 36k divided by 2. (36k being their estimate for you to live reasonably) For instance (hypothetical),I make 48k with the state. The difference between 48k and 36k is 12k. So 12k divided by 2 is 6k. If I make 48k, then I owe 6k every year for debt. After 3 years, 25% of debt automatically goes away, 50% after 4, 75% after 5, and it is completely forgiven after 6. Your income is capped at 55k to be eligible when you begin, and it can go up to 65k while you are working. So if you average 60k working for the Attorney General, or something, you will be paying 12k a year with LRAP. So you aren't saving a whole lot at first, but when all your debt is gone after 6 years, you are really only paying like 72k. Assuming you borrowed like 120k, this is a really good deal. I guess if you want to avoid this whole problem, Big/midlaw is there for people who do well...and you don't have to be 10% in order to succeed at finding one of these.

[givemea170]

Or let me put it this way...

Do you think the job prospects would be much different if I was top 10% at LUC or in the middle range at UIUC?

Honestly...UIUC at median. I applied to LUC, and I would have liked to go. But I knew when I was filling out my application that they give shit for scholarships. The CoA just isn't worth it for the typical student. I mean, top 10% would probably be ok, but I've heard that grades can get screwy with the curve. While job prospects might be better within top 10% at LUC as compared to median at UIUC, you just can't guarantee your rank. If you are median at UIUC, you can still try to find something in Stl, indy, springfield, peoria...all around the midwest, really. Also, LRAP is something to use. I hate putting LRAP out there as if public work is some sort of fall back. But I don't think it would be terribly difficult to be competitive from UIUC when applying for asst. state's attorney positions. Sure you would start off making 40k, but all you would need to pay back would be 2k a year for 6 years for your debt to be totally forgiven. I was looking at their LRAP program, and it looks reasonable. They calculate your contribution based on the difference between your salary and 36k divided by 2. (36k being their estimate for you to live reasonably) For instance (hypothetical),I make 48k with the state. The difference between 48k and 36k is 12k. So 12k divided by 2 is 6k. If I make 48k, then I owe 6k every year for debt. After 3 years, 25% of debt automatically goes away, 50% after 4, 75% after 5, and it is completely forgiven after 6. Your income is capped at 55k to be eligible when you begin, and it can go up to 65k while you are working. So if you average 60k working for the Attorney General, or something, you will be paying 12k a year with LRAP. So you aren't saving a whole lot at first, but when all your debt is gone after 6 years, you are really only paying like 72k. Assuming you borrowed like 120k, this is a really good deal. I guess if you want to avoid this whole problem, Big/midlaw is there for people who do well...and you don't have to be 10% in order to succeed at finding one of these.

Totally understand... and as I mentioned, I will have zero debt when I graduate because my parents have agreed to pay everything from living expenses to tuition. I'm shooting for big law so I guess I just need to do what I can to ensure I'm in the top 10% no matter where I decide to go.

[Opie]

Or let me put it this way...

Do you think the job prospects would be much different if I was top 10% at LUC or in the middle range at UIUC?

Honestly...UIUC at median. I applied to LUC, and I would have liked to go. But I knew when I was filling out my application that they give shit for scholarships. The CoA just isn't worth it for the typical student. I mean, top 10% would probably be ok, but I've heard that grades can get screwy with the curve. While job prospects might be better within top 10% at LUC as compared to median at UIUC, you just can't guarantee your rank. If you are median at UIUC, you can still try to find something in Stl, indy, springfield, peoria...all around the midwest, really. Also, LRAP is something to use. I hate putting LRAP out there as if public work is some sort of fall back. But I don't think it would be terribly difficult to be competitive from UIUC when applying for asst. state's attorney positions. Sure you would start off making 40k, but all you would need to pay back would be 2k a year for 6 years for your debt to be totally forgiven. I was looking at their LRAP program, and it looks reasonable. They calculate your contribution based on the difference between your salary and 36k divided by 2. (36k being their estimate for you to live reasonably) For instance (hypothetical),I make 48k with the state. The difference between 48k and 36k is 12k. So 12k divided by 2 is 6k. If I make 48k, then I owe 6k every year for debt. After 3 years, 25% of debt automatically goes away, 50% after 4, 75% after 5, and it is completely forgiven after 6. Your income is capped at 55k to be eligible when you begin, and it can go up to 65k while you are working. So if you average 60k working for the Attorney General, or something, you will be paying 12k a year with LRAP. So you aren't saving a whole lot at first, but when all your debt is gone after 6 years, you are really only paying like 72k. Assuming you borrowed like 120k, this is a really good deal. I guess if you want to avoid this whole problem, Big/midlaw is there for people who do well...and you don't have to be 10% in order to succeed at finding one of these.

Totally understand... and as I mentioned, I will have zero debt when I graduate because my parents have agreed to pay everything from living expenses to tuition. I'm shooting for big law so I guess I just need to do what I can to ensure I'm in the top 10% no matter where I decide to go.

If you really want big law and debt isn't a giant issue, you need to go to the best-ranked school you can get into.

[tmon]

Totally understand... and as I mentioned, I will have zero debt when I graduate because my parents have agreed to pay everything from living expenses to tuition. I'm shooting for big law so I guess I just need to do what I can to ensure I'm in the top 10% no matter where I decide to go.

If it all boils down to biglaw and that's the only factor, Illinois wins. Of 2010 grads, around 10% went to NLJ250. 18% from Illinois. But again, the odds of that happening are unlikely, as you can see, and you'd have better options at UIUC if you don't make that cut.

eta: source http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

[mattviphky]

Totally understand... and as I mentioned, I will have zero debt when I graduate because my parents have agreed to pay everything from living expenses to tuition. I'm shooting for big law so I guess I just need to do what I can to ensure I'm in the top 10% no matter where I decide to go.

Oh, UIUC.

[givemea170]

I'm going to wait until all of my offers roll in and then shoot Jenny an email back.

Hopefully they bump the $5,000 offer to 10 or 15 and then I'll be coming to Illinois for sure. Maybe I should just tell her that. lol

[omninode]

I'm going to wait until all of my offers roll in and then shoot Jenny an email back.

Hopefully they bump the $5,000 offer to 10 or 15 and then I'll be coming to Illinois for sure. Maybe I should just tell her that. lol

Maybe you should.

[ProBrono]

I'm going to wait until all of my offers roll in and then shoot Jenny an email back.

Hopefully they bump the $5,000 offer to 10 or 15 and then I'll be coming to Illinois for sure. Maybe I should just tell her that. lol

Your position does not make sense to me. You're not paying for law school, so the increased scholly seems like it's only appealing to your sense of pride/ a need to feel loved.

I don't mean to sound negative, just kind of chipping in with advice. Your motives are your own. But you seemed high on UIUC earlier though ("99.99% likely to attend if accepted," I think you said), and I'm not sure your other offers should really derail your interest in attending. Of course, if you get into Northwestern, go. (That is certainly my plan.) But what does $5-10K really mean to you?

Keep in mind, this is a fairly abstract $5-10K. We are talking about the long term benefits of a degree from one school over another, and your parents are footing the bill. If you believe UIUC -- whether as a top ten %, median, or bottom 10% graduate -- is your best option, your hedging strikes me as a bit odd.

[givemea170]

I'm going to wait until all of my offers roll in and then shoot Jenny an email back.

Hopefully they bump the $5,000 offer to 10 or 15 and then I'll be coming to Illinois for sure. Maybe I should just tell her that. lol

Your position does not make sense to me. You're not paying for law school, so the increased scholly seems like it's only appealing to your sense of pride/ a need to feel loved.

I don't mean to sound negative, just kind of chipping in with advice. Your motives are your own. But you seemed high on UIUC earlier though ("99.99% likely to attend if accepted," I think you said), and I'm not sure your other offers should really derail your interest in attending. Of course, if you get into Northwestern, go. (That is certainly my plan.) But what does $5-10K really mean to you?

Keep in mind, this is a fairly abstract $5-10K. We are talking about the long term benefits of a degree from one school over another, and your parents are footing the bill. If you believe UIUC -- whether as a top ten %, median, or bottom 10% graduate -- is your best option, your hedging strikes me as a bit odd.

I guess my hope to get more money is more out of guilt. While 5-10K is little to my parents, it is a lot to me and I feel guilty for making them foot the bill for this, although I guess if I felt too guilty I could always take on the student loans and put myself in extreme debt, so maybe I'm just full of shit.

But you do offer some good points and Illinois is certainly the way I'm leaning heavily if Northwestern passes me by.

[mattviphky]

I'm going to wait until all of my offers roll in and then shoot Jenny an email back.

Hopefully they bump the $5,000 offer to 10 or 15 and then I'll be coming to Illinois for sure. Maybe I should just tell her that. lol

Your position does not make sense to me. You're not paying for law school, so the increased scholly seems like it's only appealing to your sense of pride/ a need to feel loved.

I don't mean to sound negative, just kind of chipping in with advice. Your motives are your own. But you seemed high on UIUC earlier though ("99.99% likely to attend if accepted," I think you said), and I'm not sure your other offers should really derail your interest in attending. Of course, if you get into Northwestern, go. (That is certainly my plan.) But what does $5-10K really mean to you?

Keep in mind, this is a fairly abstract $5-10K. We are talking about the long term benefits of a degree from one school over another, and your parents are footing the bill. If you believe UIUC -- whether as a top ten %, median, or bottom 10% graduate -- is your best option, your hedging strikes me as a bit odd.

I guess my hope to get more money is more out of guilt. While 5-10K is little to my parents, it is a lot to me and I feel guilty for making them foot the bill for this, although I guess if I felt too guilty I could always take on the student loans and put myself in extreme debt, so maybe I'm just full of shit.

But you do offer some good points and Illinois is certainly the way I'm leaning heavily if Northwestern passes me by.

well 5-10k is a lot to me, so maybe you should feel guilty about indirectly taking some of my scholarship money away?

[Ludo!]

Or let me put it this way...

Do you think the job prospects would be much different if I was top 10% at LUC or in the middle range at UIUC?

Honestly...UIUC at median. I applied to LUC, and I would have liked to go. But I knew when I was filling out my application that they give shit for scholarships. The CoA just isn't worth it for the typical student. I mean, top 10% would probably be ok, but I've heard that grades can get screwy with the curve. While job prospects might be better within top 10% at LUC as compared to median at UIUC, you just can't guarantee your rank. If you are median at UIUC, you can still try to find something in Stl, indy, springfield, peoria...all around the midwest, really. Also, LRAP is something to use. I hate putting LRAP out there as if public work is some sort of fall back. But I don't think it would be terribly difficult to be competitive from UIUC when applying for asst. state's attorney positions. Sure you would start off making 40k, but all you would need to pay back would be 2k a year for 6 years for your debt to be totally forgiven. I was looking at their LRAP program, and it looks reasonable. They calculate your contribution based on the difference between your salary and 36k divided by 2. (36k being their estimate for you to live reasonably) For instance (hypothetical),I make 48k with the state. The difference between 48k and 36k is 12k. So 12k divided by 2 is 6k. If I make 48k, then I owe 6k every year for debt. After 3 years, 25% of debt automatically goes away, 50% after 4, 75% after 5, and it is completely forgiven after 6. Your income is capped at 55k to be eligible when you begin, and it can go up to 65k while you are working. So if you average 60k working for the Attorney General, or something, you will be paying 12k a year with LRAP. So you aren't saving a whole lot at first, but when all your debt is gone after 6 years, you are really only paying like 72k. Assuming you borrowed like 120k, this is a really good deal. I guess if you want to avoid this whole problem, Big/midlaw is there for people who do well...and you don't have to be 10% in order to succeed at finding one of these.

Totally understand... and as I mentioned, I will have zero debt when I graduate because my parents have agreed to pay everything from living expenses to tuition. I'm shooting for big law so I guess I just need to do what I can to ensure I'm in the top 10% no matter where I decide to go.

If you're shooting for BigLaw there is absolutely no way you should go to Loyola. Even at Illinois your prospects aren't great, but they're a hell of lot better than any lower ranked Chicago schools.

[tooswolle]

I'm going to wait until all of my offers roll in and then shoot Jenny an email back.

Hopefully they bump the $5,000 offer to 10 or 15 and then I'll be coming to Illinois for sure. Maybe I should just tell her that. lol

Your position does not make sense to me. You're not paying for law school, so the increased scholly seems like it's only appealing to your sense of pride/ a need to feel loved.

I don't mean to sound negative, just kind of chipping in with advice. Your motives are your own. But you seemed high on UIUC earlier though ("99.99% likely to attend if accepted," I think you said), and I'm not sure your other offers should really derail your interest in attending. Of course, if you get into Northwestern, go. (That is certainly my plan.) But what does $5-10K really mean to you?

Keep in mind, this is a fairly abstract $5-10K. We are talking about the long term benefits of a degree from one school over another, and your parents are footing the bill. If you believe UIUC -- whether as a top ten %, median, or bottom 10% graduate -- is your best option, your hedging strikes me as a bit odd.

I guess my hope to get more money is more out of guilt. While 5-10K is little to my parents, it is a lot to me and I feel guilty for making them foot the bill for this, although I guess if I felt too guilty I could always take on the student loans and put myself in extreme debt, so maybe I'm just full of shit.

But you do offer some good points and Illinois is certainly the way I'm leaning heavily if Northwestern passes me by.

Dude I'll put it simple. You are extremely lucky to have the backing you have. You're honestly doing a disservice to yourself and parents by choosing any lower ranked options. Pay them back if you feel bad but at least be grateful you have marginal concerns compared to those fretting the 100-150K price tag this legal education costs.

[givemea170]

I'm going to wait until all of my offers roll in and then shoot Jenny an email back.

Hopefully they bump the $5,000 offer to 10 or 15 and then I'll be coming to Illinois for sure. Maybe I should just tell her that. lol

Your position does not make sense to me. You're not paying for law school, so the increased scholly seems like it's only appealing to your sense of pride/ a need to feel loved.

I don't mean to sound negative, just kind of chipping in with advice. Your motives are your own. But you seemed high on UIUC earlier though ("99.99% likely to attend if accepted," I think you said), and I'm not sure your other offers should really derail your interest in attending. Of course, if you get into Northwestern, go. (That is certainly my plan.) But what does $5-10K really mean to you?

Keep in mind, this is a fairly abstract $5-10K. We are talking about the long term benefits of a degree from one school over another, and your parents are footing the bill. If you believe UIUC -- whether as a top ten %, median, or bottom 10% graduate -- is your best option, your hedging strikes me as a bit odd.

I guess my hope to get more money is more out of guilt. While 5-10K is little to my parents, it is a lot to me and I feel guilty for making them foot the bill for this, although I guess if I felt too guilty I could always take on the student loans and put myself in extreme debt, so maybe I'm just full of shit.

But you do offer some good points and Illinois is certainly the way I'm leaning heavily if Northwestern passes me by.

Dude I'll put it simple. You are extremely lucky to have the backing you have. You're honestly doing a disservice to yourself and parents by choosing any lower ranked options. Pay them back if you feel bad but at least be grateful you have marginal concerns compared to those fretting the 100-150K price tag this legal education costs.

I know how lucky I am. It is extremely nice not to have to worry about money while I pursue my degree and I am very thankful for that. Ultimately, I probably will attend the best school to offer me, whether it be UIUC or Northwestern. Sorry if I've been mostly thinking out loud in this thread. Someone else has to have some other concerns we can all assist. You guys have been helpful in this thread for me.

[fltanglab]

Dude I'll put it simple. You are extremely lucky to have the backing you have. You're honestly doing a disservice to yourself and parents by choosing any lower ranked options. Pay them back if you feel bad but at least be grateful you have marginal concerns compared to those fretting the 100-150K price tag this legal education costs.

This is why I'm not bothering negotiating scholarships. My parents said they'd pay for it and I honestly would feel worse taking money from people who would otherwise be unable to attend some place.

[tooswolle]

Dude I'll put it simple. You are extremely lucky to have the backing you have. You're honestly doing a disservice to yourself and parents by choosing any lower ranked options. Pay them back if you feel bad but at least be grateful you have marginal concerns compared to those fretting the 100-150K price tag this legal education costs.

This is why I'm not bothering negotiating scholarships. My parents said they'd pay for it and I honestly would feel worse taking money from people who would otherwise be unable to attend some place.

Two words: mad respect. In all seriousness money is looking like the deciding factor for me. I've been blessed with a decent scholarship but it isn't enough to calm my fears of insane debt. Couple that fear with the opportunity cost from quitting my job (which is a pretty good one) it really puts me in a weird position. If anything I may have to be forced to defer and hopefully hit my practice test average instead of getting a lower score on test day. Decisions....decisions.....

[givemea170]

Dude I'll put it simple. You are extremely lucky to have the backing you have. You're honestly doing a disservice to yourself and parents by choosing any lower ranked options. Pay them back if you feel bad but at least be grateful you have marginal concerns compared to those fretting the 100-150K price tag this legal education costs.

This is why I'm not bothering negotiating scholarships. My parents said they'd pay for it and I honestly would feel worse taking money from people who would otherwise be unable to attend some place.

Two words: mad respect. In all seriousness money is looking like the deciding factor for me. I've been blessed with a decent scholarship but it isn't enough to calm my fears of insane debt. Couple that fear with the opportunity cost from quitting my job (which is a pretty good one) it really puts me in a weird position. If anything I may have to be forced to defer and hopefully hit my practice test average instead of getting a lower score on test day. Decisions....decisions.....

You haven't taken your LSAT yet? Or am I misreading?

[givemea170]

Dude I'll put it simple. You are extremely lucky to have the backing you have. You're honestly doing a disservice to yourself and parents by choosing any lower ranked options. Pay them back if you feel bad but at least be grateful you have marginal concerns compared to those fretting the 100-150K price tag this legal education costs.

This is why I'm not bothering negotiating scholarships. My parents said they'd pay for it and I honestly would feel worse taking money from people who would otherwise be unable to attend some place.

That is one way to look at it and I commend you on that. My parents are 60. I don't want to see them having to work longer to pay this so the lower I can get it the better I'll feel.

[tooswolle]

Dude I'll put it simple. You are extremely lucky to have the backing you have. You're honestly doing a disservice to yourself and parents by choosing any lower ranked options. Pay them back if you feel bad but at least be grateful you have marginal concerns compared to those fretting the 100-150K price tag this legal education costs.

This is why I'm not bothering negotiating scholarships. My parents said they'd pay for it and I honestly would feel worse taking money from people who would otherwise be unable to attend some place.

Two words: mad respect. In all seriousness money is looking like the deciding factor for me. I've been blessed with a decent scholarship but it isn't enough to calm my fears of insane debt. Couple that fear with the opportunity cost from quitting my job (which is a pretty good one) it really puts me in a weird position. If anything I may have to be forced to defer and hopefully hit my practice test average instead of getting a lower score on test day. Decisions....decisions.....

You haven't taken your LSAT yet? Or am I misreading?

Misreading dude, I missed my practice score by 7 points. All attributable to test day anxiety I suppose. Hence my comment about deferring and retaking if I can't get more aid.

[mattviphky]

I know how lucky I am. It is extremely nice not to have to worry about money while I pursue my degree and I am very thankful for that. Ultimately, I probably will attend the best school to offer me, whether it be UIUC or Northwestern. Sorry if I've been mostly thinking out loud in this thread. Someone else has to have some other concerns we can all assist. You guys have been helpful in this thread for me.

It seems like WUSTL will solve both of these problems. It's ranked high, and they'll probably give you some good money.

[naw]

It looks like the Chicago schools are going to end up being a lot less expensive than Illinois.

What to do, what to do...

Same here, buddy. Kent full-tuition vs. UIUC 75% is giving me all sorts of headache. Definitely leaning UIUC, if I can find a sponsor and funds for the joint MA in Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences.

I would go UIUC all the way on that. COL makes them almost equal in cost.

ETA: does Kent have stips? Also, do they guaranty that the price won't increase each year?

That sounds like a pretty obvious decision in favor of UIUC. Why do you think otherwise?

No stips at kent. Not sure if there's price increase concern, but the tuition isn't even for a dollar amount, it's just a "full tuition scholarship" guaranteed for all 3 years. COL makes them closer in cost, but it definitely isn't going to be $11k more a year to live in Chicago than Champaign. I said before UIUC definitely gets the edge, but I'd be doing myself a disservice to not look at both.

I'd much rather live in Chicago, and the prospect of being multiple hours away from any real cities in Champaign makes me a little queasy. Also, I've got no interest in biglaw. I'm just looking to do environmental work as a attorney for a nonprofit like earthjustice, so fuck debt and I realize I'll probably be unemployed at graduation. Oh wellz. Kent seems to have much better course and clinical offerings in environmental law than Illinois too, but again, Illinois has that sexy joint NRES MA. Guess I gotta start emailing in search of a research advisor and some masters $$$.

[mattviphky]

It looks like the Chicago schools are going to end up being a lot less expensive than Illinois.

What to do, what to do...

Same here, buddy. Kent full-tuition vs. UIUC 75% is giving me all sorts of headache. Definitely leaning UIUC, if I can find a sponsor and funds for the joint MA in Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences.

I would go UIUC all the way on that. COL makes them almost equal in cost.

ETA: does Kent have stips? Also, do they guaranty that the price won't increase each year?

That sounds like a pretty obvious decision in favor of UIUC. Why do you think otherwise?

No stips at kent. Not sure if there's price increase concern, but the tuition isn't even for a dollar amount, it's just a "full tuition scholarship" guaranteed for all 3 years. COL makes them closer in cost, but it definitely isn't going to be $11k more a year to live in Chicago than Champaign. I said before UIUC definitely gets the edge, but I'd be doing myself a disservice to not look at both.


I'd much rather live in Chicago, and the prospect of being multiple hours away from any real cities in Champaign makes me a little queasy. Also, I've got no interest in biglaw. I'm just looking to do environmental work as a attorney for a nonprofit like earthjustice, so fuck debt and I realize I'll probably be unemployed at graduation. Oh wellz. Kent seems to have much better course and clinical offerings in environmental law than Illinois too, but again, Illinois has that sexy joint NRES MA. Guess I gotta start emailing in search of a research advisor and some masters $$$.

sigh. UIUC has LRAP. If you are making like 40k at a non profit, you only gotta pay back like 2k a year for a max of 6 years.