TLS c/o 2020 - In #Squad We Trust Forum

[drjekyllope]

I'm just wondering - how many of y'all got undergrad debt as well?

$5k (this is what happens when your room + board > tuition at state school ).

20k state school as well lol.

I graduated with 10k, and paid that off my first year out (first year bonus ftw). But then I got married and inherited 50k from my wife. We should finish paying that off this year right before I head to school.

graduated with $30k from an ivy, what up lower-middle class American Dreamers

I went to a public school, but my cousin and friend who went to super expensive private LACs both said the same thing to me, which I found interesting. Though this might just be their perception, they both said that there aren't/weren't many "middle class" people in their class. It was/is very wealthy students and students who received grants, making a bimodal split of the class. Does anyone have a similar perspective?

yeah, i have the most debt of anyone i know who went to my undergrad. about half of my friends have wealthy parents who could pay sticker/make up the difference after meager need-based aid and the other half had full scholarships because their families made less than $60k.

[Rigo]

I feel like law schools have a greater chance at being more economically diverse since its a merit-based financial aid system rather than need-based. Middle class students won't be as financially shut out.

[Keilz]

Education costs really need to be fixed. and health care. My parents can't afford to keep me on their health insurance until I'm 26.

[TexasENG]

Education costs really need to be fixed. and health care. My parents can't afford to keep me on their health insurance until I'm 26.

+1000. I grew up without healthcare. Getting hurt / sick was a massive burden on the family

[tncats]

I feel like law schools have a greater chance at being more economically diverse since its a merit-based financial aid system rather than need-based. Middle class students won't be as financially shut out.

Yeah, I agree with this, but of course those loans for living expenses add up for anyone who isn't wealthy.

[Mr_Chukes]

Education costs really need to be fixed. and health care. My parents can't afford to keep me on their health insurance until I'm 26.

+1000. I grew up without healthcare. Getting hurt / sick was a massive burden on the family

Must have been a pain. My father worked for the county so I had good insurance. I never got hurt though besides two instances though. In law school you have to get the healthcare if you don't have your own right?

[Mr_Chukes]

I feel like law schools have a greater chance at being more economically diverse since its a merit-based financial aid system rather than need-based. Middle class students won't be as financially shut out.

Yeah, I agree with this, but of course those loans for living expenses add up for anyone who isn't wealthy.

That's me lol.

[JC2017]

I feel like law schools have a greater chance at being more economically diverse since its a merit-based financial aid system rather than need-based. Middle class students won't be as financially shut out.

This assumes an even playing field for merit-based aid, which is not at all the case. Wealthy folks can typically afford more tutoring, private LSAT prep, etc. Even merit-based aid isn't a meritocracy in this country.

[TexasENG]

Education costs really need to be fixed. and health care. My parents can't afford to keep me on their health insurance until I'm 26.

+1000. I grew up without healthcare. Getting hurt / sick was a massive burden on the family

Must have been a pain. My father worked for the county so I had good insurance. I never got hurt though besides two instances though. In law school you have to get the healthcare if you don't have your own right?

I think it depends on the school. If I remember correctly Michigan indicated it wasn't a requirement (outside of ACA requirements)

[Keilz]

Education costs really need to be fixed. and health care. My parents can't afford to keep me on their health insurance until I'm 26.

+1000. I grew up without healthcare. Getting hurt / sick was a massive burden on the family

Must have been a pain. My father worked for the county so I had good insurance. I never got hurt though besides two instances though. In law school you have to get the healthcare if you don't have your own right?

My mom works for NYC so she gets cheap health insurance, but not many doctors take it and they're all in the city. We live in NJ now and all of the doctors around us dropped her insurance very quickly. Because she's seeing more and more doctors she needs to go on my dad's plan. With me added to their plan it would be $700/mo.

Yeah, you need to buy the school's insurance if you can't waive the requirement with your own adequate coverage. It's about $2.5K a year.

[TexasENG]

Education costs really need to be fixed. and health care. My parents can't afford to keep me on their health insurance until I'm 26.

+1000. I grew up without healthcare. Getting hurt / sick was a massive burden on the family

Must have been a pain. My father worked for the county so I had good insurance. I never got hurt though besides two instances though. In law school you have to get the healthcare if you don't have your own right?

My mom works for NYC so she gets cheap health insurance, but not many doctors take it and they're all in the city. We live in NJ now and all of the doctors around us dropped her insurance very quickly. Yeah, you need to buy the school's insurance if you can't waive the requirement with your own adequate coverage. It's about $2.5K a year.

Yeah healthcare is pretty broken. I'm lucky that I'll be on my wife's (at least for a little) cause hers is pretty baller, but growing up without it gave me a better perspective on the health care debate imo.

[Keilz]

Also, even with merit scholarships, the fact that $105K in merit scholarship still requires a person without savings to go $200K in debt is insane.

[TexasENG]

Also, even with merit scholarships, the fact that $105K in merit scholarship still requires a person without savings to go $200K in debt is insane.

Yeah, just CoL in a lot of the top schools cities can add up to 100k which is a lot of debt. I don't think a lot of 0Ls that go straight through quite understand how much strain debt will put on you.

[Rigo]

I feel like law schools have a greater chance at being more economically diverse since its a merit-based financial aid system rather than need-based. Middle class students won't be as financially shut out.

This assumes an even playing field for merit-based aid, which is not at all the case. Wealthy folks can typically afford more tutoring, private LSAT prep, etc. Even merit-based aid isn't a meritocracy in this country.

I'm not saying there isn't a correlation between wealth and academic achievement, but I think my original assertion still stands.
In a merit-based system nobody gets shut out because of financial circumstances.

[JC2017]

I feel like law schools have a greater chance at being more economically diverse since its a merit-based financial aid system rather than need-based. Middle class students won't be as financially shut out.

This assumes an even playing field for merit-based aid, which is not at all the case. Wealthy folks can typically afford more tutoring, private LSAT prep, etc. Even merit-based aid isn't a meritocracy in this country.

I'm not saying there isn't a correlation between wealth and academic achievement, but I think my original assertion still stands.
In a merit-based system nobody gets shut out because of financial circumstances.

Your argument stands up until the top tier schools I would say. Upper class people have tremendous advantages of being able to get into the schools, score well enough to get merit aid, or be able to afford outright. I imagine that the top tier will be significantly less economically diverse than the schools below. (can you tell I'm bitter from the WLs at CLS and Penn? Even if I get in I likely can't afford it)

[TexasENG]

Has anyone looked at who is online at any point?

Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media

I never noticed these 2 before. I'm sure they've always been there, but its interesting. I wonder if TLS makes enough money on ads to break even.

[Keilz]

How does the fact that it is graduate school affect applicant wealth? Except for K-JDs, all applicants have a bachelor's degree, and in theory should be able to get a job and not depend on their parents for money. I know there are myriad circumstances that affect a person's wealth (and that standardized tests can be bias/classist), but the fact that every applicant has a degree does make it different than undergrad.

[Keilz]

Has anyone looked at who is online at any point?

Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media

I never noticed these 2 before. I'm sure they've always been there, but its interesting. I wonder if TLS makes enough money on ads to break even.

I've always noticed the google one. Not the MSNbot. It 100% influences the ads I see. (aka a lot of NYU professional school ads and UVA instagram/facebook ads )

[Sarastro]

Your argument stands up until the top tier schools I would say. Upper class people have tremendous advantages of being able to get into the schools, score well enough to get merit aid, or be able to afford outright. I imagine that the top tier will be significantly less economically diverse than the schools below. (can you tell I'm bitter from the WLs at CLS and Penn? Even if I get in I likely can't afford it)

Am I the only person that spent a grand total of like $10 on LSAT prep? I think I bought one recent prep test to see if anything major was different, but just used old ones / online resources that were free for 99% of my preparation. I don't feel like that $10 test had any impact on my score whatsoever, but maybe I just got lucky if everyone else here spent hundreds of dollars, which is what you seem to be implying.

I think the bigger impact that wealth has on an applicant are the less tangible factors: believing you're capable of succeeding in higher education, being raised around people that went through similar processes, knowing what to expect from the process, and having a childhood that maybe valued more academic pursuits than less privileged children would have the luxury of affording. I was fortunate to grow up in a house that was very conducive to valuing higher education, so I benefited from that, but I don't think I got my merit aid because I paid more up-front for it in the way that some people make it sound. I'll definitely still be in debt that I won't be able to service other than getting a decent job-just like everyone else in my class, I expect.

Solidly middle class background, for the record.

[TexasENG]

Has anyone looked at who is online at any point?

Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media

I never noticed these 2 before. I'm sure they've always been there, but its interesting. I wonder if TLS makes enough money on ads to break even.

I've always noticed the google one. Not the MSNbot. It 100% influences the ads I see. (aka a lot of NYU professional school ads and UVA instagram/facebook ads )

It makes sense because I always get targeted ads on here, but I had never noticed they showed up as actual forum "users"

[tncats]

I spent a lot of money on my LSAT in prep books and registering for it twice. Not to mention how much those $30 LSAC application fees add up, even if the school is waiving their fee.

[TexasENG]

How does the fact that it is graduate school affect applicant wealth? Except for K-JDs, all applicants have a bachelor's degree, and in theory should be able to get a job and not depend on their parents for money. I know there are myriad circumstances that affect a person's wealth (and that standardized tests can be bias/classist), but the fact that every applicant has a degree does make it different than undergrad.

This is an interesting question. I know NYU for instance believes there is a problem with people who grew up in lower income families struggling (for whatever reason) to get into top law schools / have success at them, and part of the reason they developed AnBryce was a direct response to this.

When I was at NYU last week the Dean talked a little bit about how schools are evaluating the GRE as a potential way to help with the socioeconomic gap (the thought is that the GRE might be slightly less biased than the LSAT), but that there isn't necessarily the backing for that belief as of yet.

[Keilz]

How does the fact that it is graduate school affect applicant wealth? Except for K-JDs, all applicants have a bachelor's degree, and in theory should be able to get a job and not depend on their parents for money. I know there are myriad circumstances that affect a person's wealth (and that standardized tests can be bias/classist), but the fact that every applicant has a degree does make it different than undergrad.

This is an interesting question. I know NYU for instance believes there is a problem with people who grew up in lower income families struggling (for whatever reason) to get into top law schools / have success at them, and part of the reason they developed AnBryce was a direct response to this.

When I was at NYU last week the Dean talked a little bit about how schools are evaluating the GRE as a potential way to help with the socioeconomic gap (the thought is that the GRE might be slightly less biased than the LSAT), but that there isn't necessarily the backing for that belief as of yet.

glad to know schools are actively investigating this!

[Sarastro]

(the thought is that the GRE might be slightly less biased than the LSAT)

I've heard this before, but haven't taken the GRE so I have no ability to compare the tests. What makes it less socioeconomically biased than the LSAT? RC seems like it could be rough, but isn't there also a vocab section in the GRE?

[Stylnator]

I self studied + $500 worth of hours w/a private tutor and spent $1500 on the lsat. I feel like this is a number that differs for everyone depending on their level of improvement. I started at a 149 and didn't break 155 for about a year after using 7sage, Manhattan, old PTs, blind review; nothing worked for a solid year until it just clicked.