SMU 2012 Forum

[pony759]

Are job prospects for a UT grad in Texas really that good? They made it sound like if you are Sumner Scholar, you get access to the SMU network in Dallas and a few other places (very tight network) plus the entire Sumner network (even tighter)...whereas as a UT grad, you are just some guy graduating from a huge, impersonal school with no personal network waiting for you in law.

I guess I just don't know the increased worth of going to UT Law over SMU because 1) I have no idea how the UT Law connection works for you compared to being in the tight SMU/Sumner family and 2) I don't know how much more weight a UT degree will carry in Texas than an SMU degree if personal connections/school loyalty are set aside.

Did you get it?

[kalvano]

[Top Third

I thought it was top 10%. Regardless, I'd still be wary of any scholarship that has stipulations, because what if you don't make it?

[kalvano]

Are job prospects for a UT grad in Texas really that good? They made it sound like if you are Sumner Scholar, you get access to the SMU network in Dallas and a few other places (very tight network) plus the entire Sumner network (even tighter)...whereas as a UT grad, you are just some guy graduating from a huge, impersonal school with no personal network waiting for you in law.

I guess I just don't know the increased worth of going to UT Law over SMU because 1) I have no idea how the UT Law connection works for you compared to being in the tight SMU/Sumner family and 2) I don't know how much more weight a UT degree will carry in Texas than an SMU degree if personal connections/school loyalty are set aside.

Yes, they are. UT stands head and shoulders over SMU in every regard when it comes to job prospects. I know what SMU makes things sound like, and to put it bluntly, they are full of shit. You're talking about a Dean that routinely compares his school to Harvard, even as his bar passage rate plummets and the school falls out of the first tier.

UT will dominate an SMU degree day in and day out in Texas.

[bringyourlunch]

Are job prospects for a UT grad in Texas really that good? They made it sound like if you are Sumner Scholar, you get access to the SMU network in Dallas and a few other places (very tight network) plus the entire Sumner network (even tighter)...whereas as a UT grad, you are just some guy graduating from a huge, impersonal school with no personal network waiting for you in law.

I guess I just don't know the increased worth of going to UT Law over SMU because 1) I have no idea how the UT Law connection works for you compared to being in the tight SMU/Sumner family and 2) I don't know how much more weight a UT degree will carry in Texas than an SMU degree if personal connections/school loyalty are set aside.

Yes, they are. UT stands head and shoulders over SMU in every regard when it comes to job prospects. I know what SMU makes things sound like, and to put it bluntly, they are full of shit. You're talking about a Dean that routinely compares his school to Harvard, even as his bar passage rate plummets and the school falls out of the first tier.

UT will dominate an SMU degree day in and day out in Texas.

SMU SUCKS

[kalvano]

Are job prospects for a UT grad in Texas really that good? They made it sound like if you are Sumner Scholar, you get access to the SMU network in Dallas and a few other places (very tight network) plus the entire Sumner network (even tighter)...whereas as a UT grad, you are just some guy graduating from a huge, impersonal school with no personal network waiting for you in law.

I guess I just don't know the increased worth of going to UT Law over SMU because 1) I have no idea how the UT Law connection works for you compared to being in the tight SMU/Sumner family and 2) I don't know how much more weight a UT degree will carry in Texas than an SMU degree if personal connections/school loyalty are set aside.

Yes, they are. UT stands head and shoulders over SMU in every regard when it comes to job prospects. I know what SMU makes things sound like, and to put it bluntly, they are full of shit. You're talking about a Dean that routinely compares his school to Harvard, even as his bar passage rate plummets and the school falls out of the first tier.

UT will dominate an SMU degree day in and day out in Texas.

SMU SUCKS

Next to UT, yeah.


Don't get me wrong, I like SMU and all just fine. The people and my classmates are super nice, and it's a good school. It's just nowhere near as elite as the SMU faculty like to pretend it is, and the job prospects next to a school like UT are almost laughable in comparison.

[TexasWave]

We won't know who got the Sumners until Wednesday at the latest, I just like to be prepared just in the off case that I do get it...If I did get it, I wanted to minimize the amount of time I make the trustees wait for me to accept or reject, so that the alternatives are informed. All of the candidates for this year are really awesome people and it wouldn't be fair to them for me to sit on a decision while I asked around for weeks and weeks to make up my mind.

This thread is making me feel like I really under-estimated the power of a UT degree inside Texas compared to SMU/UH/Baylor/etc.

[bringyourlunch]

Are job prospects for a UT grad in Texas really that good? They made it sound like if you are Sumner Scholar, you get access to the SMU network in Dallas and a few other places (very tight network) plus the entire Sumner network (even tighter)...whereas as a UT grad, you are just some guy graduating from a huge, impersonal school with no personal network waiting for you in law.

I guess I just don't know the increased worth of going to UT Law over SMU because 1) I have no idea how the UT Law connection works for you compared to being in the tight SMU/Sumner family and 2) I don't know how much more weight a UT degree will carry in Texas than an SMU degree if personal connections/school loyalty are set aside.

Yes, they are. UT stands head and shoulders over SMU in every regard when it comes to job prospects. I know what SMU makes things sound like, and to put it bluntly, they are full of shit. You're talking about a Dean that routinely compares his school to Harvard, even as his bar passage rate plummets and the school falls out of the first tier.

UT will dominate an SMU degree day in and day out in Texas.

SMU SUCKS

Next to UT, yeah.


Don't get me wrong, I like SMU and all just fine. The people and my classmates are super nice, and it's a good school. It's just nowhere near as elite as the SMU faculty like to pretend it is, and the job prospects next to a school like UT are almost laughable in comparison.

Care to expound? Are job prospects really that terrible?

[kalvano]

This thread is making me feel like I really under-estimated the power of a UT degree inside Texas compared to SMU/UH/Baylor/etc.

Let me guess, they told you how SMU has a lock on the Dallas market and how their alumni network is great, etc., etc.

Don't let them fool you. SMU now directly competes with programs from T14 schools such as Duke and UVA that are designed to bring their students to Dallas. You need every advantage you can get. SMU is a fine school, but nowhere near competitive as compared to those schools.

[kalvano]

Care to expound? Are job prospects really that terrible?

Yes and no. SMU does OK in Dallas. It will probably be better for the next couple of classes, too. But anything outside of top 25% was basically a no-go for OCI, and odds are iffy at finding something on your own. They have programs to help people find jobs, but ultimately, it's at the whim of the employer, and there are lots more law students than available jobs.

[TexasWave]

This thread is making me feel like I really under-estimated the power of a UT degree inside Texas compared to SMU/UH/Baylor/etc.

Let me guess, they told you how SMU has a lock on the Dallas market and how their alumni network is great, etc., etc.

Don't let them fool you. SMU now directly competes with programs from T14 schools such as Duke and UVA that are designed to bring their students to Dallas. You need every advantage you can get. SMU is a fine school, but nowhere near competitive as compared to those schools.

Yeah, that's exactly what they said. They talked about how big firms reserve slots for SMU kids, and how everyone knows what a Sumners scholar is and how great of foot-in-the-door that is in Dallas compared to being just anyone from a T20 school. They basically made it sound like SMU dominates the Dallas market like no school dominates any other big city market.

[kalvano]

This thread is making me feel like I really under-estimated the power of a UT degree inside Texas compared to SMU/UH/Baylor/etc.

Let me guess, they told you how SMU has a lock on the Dallas market and how their alumni network is great, etc., etc.

Don't let them fool you. SMU now directly competes with programs from T14 schools such as Duke and UVA that are designed to bring their students to Dallas. You need every advantage you can get. SMU is a fine school, but nowhere near competitive as compared to those schools.

Yeah, that's exactly what they said. They talked about how big firms reserve slots for SMU kids, and how everyone knows what a Sumners scholar is and how great of foot-in-the-door that is in Dallas compared to being just anyone from a T20 school. They basically made it sound like SMU dominates the Dallas market like no school dominates any other big city market.

Reserves slots, my ass. Those firms will drop an SMU kid like a hot potato for a T14 kid who comes knocking.

[nouseforaname123]

Are job prospects for a UT grad in Texas really that good? They made it sound like if you are Sumner Scholar, you get access to the SMU network in Dallas and a few other places (very tight network) plus the entire Sumner network (even tighter)...whereas as a UT grad, you are just some guy graduating from a huge, impersonal school with no personal network waiting for you in law.

I guess I just don't know the increased worth of going to UT Law over SMU because 1) I have no idea how the UT Law connection works for you compared to being in the tight SMU/Sumner family and 2) I don't know how much more weight a UT degree will carry in Texas than an SMU degree if personal connections/school loyalty are set aside.

Yes, they are. UT stands head and shoulders over SMU in every regard when it comes to job prospects. I know what SMU makes things sound like, and to put it bluntly, they are full of shit. You're talking about a Dean that routinely compares his school to Harvard, even as his bar passage rate plummets and the school falls out of the first tier.

UT will dominate an SMU degree day in and day out in Texas.

I have a slightly different view. IMHO, for Dallas biglaw, top X% at SMU will have the same opportunities as top Y% at UT.

I agree with Kav that employers will go much deeper in the class at UT. I also agree that UT is better for truly selective jobs (elite clerkships, academia).

I am under the impression that most (all?) Sumners recipients end up with paid 1L gigs at Dallas biglaw firms. 1L biglaw employment is a huge advantage.

Your decision is a deeply personal one:

If your goal is Dallas biglaw:

Below median, I would rather be at the school where my debt is minimized.

At median, I would rather be at UT.

At top 25%, I would rather be at UT.

At top 10%, I would rather be debt-free at SMU.

For all other goals, I would take UT.

[kalvano]

I'm also thinking of all the sweet little boutique firms that pay well and don't come to SMU.

[pony759]

Yeah, that's exactly what they said. They talked about how big firms reserve slots for SMU kids, and how everyone knows what a Sumners scholar is and how great of foot-in-the-door that is in Dallas compared to being just anyone from a T20 school. They basically made it sound like SMU dominates the Dallas market like no school dominates any other big city market.

I don't know of a Sumners that hasn't been able to get a Big-law job in Dallas. If you don't lose it, you are in top third (probably pretty high) and your Big-law opportunity plus the network should make it a lock

[deftera]

I applied in December (past the early decision deadline) and in Jan I got "held for further review"

Should I be really concerned about not getting in? I had a 3.45 from a top 20 university, graduated with honors thesis, 164 LSAT, edited an undergrad research journal and presented at international conferences and my dad got his LLN from SMU...I didn't think I would be rejected because SMU is my top choice, but being held for further review is scaring me. haven't heard anything after two LOCI sent...thoughts/suggestions???

[EMAW12]

I applied in December (past the early decision deadline) and in Jan I got "held for further review"

Should I be really concerned about not getting in? I had a 3.45 from a top 20 university, graduated with honors thesis, 164 LSAT, edited an undergrad research journal and presented at international conferences and my dad got his LLN from SMU...I didn't think I would be rejected because SMU is my top choice, but being held for further review is scaring me. haven't heard anything after two LOCI sent...thoughts/suggestions???

I have a question: Why did you send two letters of continued interest?

[swilson215]

I applied in December (past the early decision deadline) and in Jan I got "held for further review"

Should I be really concerned about not getting in? I had a 3.45 from a top 20 university, graduated with honors thesis, 164 LSAT, edited an undergrad research journal and presented at international conferences and my dad got his LLN from SMU...I didn't think I would be rejected because SMU is my top choice, but being held for further review is scaring me. haven't heard anything after two LOCI sent...thoughts/suggestions???

I mean, honestly, you're right at (or a little below) median here. While your softs are good, they're just softs, and don't have that much weight in a determination of admission. I wouldn't say that you should be panicked, I would just say to prepare for either outcome. It seems to me that with your numbers it might be a coin toss.

(Good example of why applying early makes all the difference -- your application in October or early November probably would have gotten an admit in that first wave at the end of January...)

[deftera]

I applied in December (past the early decision deadline) and in Jan I got "held for further review"

Should I be really concerned about not getting in? I had a 3.45 from a top 20 university, graduated with honors thesis, 164 LSAT, edited an undergrad research journal and presented at international conferences and my dad got his LLN from SMU...I didn't think I would be rejected because SMU is my top choice, but being held for further review is scaring me. haven't heard anything after two LOCI sent...thoughts/suggestions???

I have a question: Why did you send two letters of continued interest?

it's my top choice so i wanted to make it clear how much i wanted to go there. i also graduated early and have been doing a competitive internship in europe and presented at another international conference, so i added that. i know my numbers aren't great so i keep desperately trying to fluff it up with the other things i'm doing with my life

[bringyourlunch]

Is SMU considered tier 2 now?

[kalvano]

Is SMU considered tier 2 now?

Since it is in the second tier, probably.

[fathergoose]

Is SMU considered tier 2 now?

Since it is in the second tier, probably.

I'd disagree. But if Dean NameDropsAlot doesn't get his butt in gear, we very well might be soon enough.

[bringyourlunch]

Is SMU considered tier 2 now?

Since it is in the second tier, probably.

Did you rack up all 9026 of your posts with cute little comments like that?

[kalvano]

Is SMU considered tier 2 now?

Since it is in the second tier, probably.

Did you rack up all 9026 of your posts with cute little comments like that?

Some of them weren't just cute, they were smoking hot.

[utexashms]

Since SMU told me yesterday that they "only scholarship match on very rare occasions" and subsequently failed to notify me that my request for a scholarship match had been denied, they're out of the running. Withdrawing tomorrow.

Their scholarship offer was only enough to match how expensive Texas would be for me after UT's offer...and I'm a Texas undergrad...how could they possibly think that it's a competition at this point?? How frustrating!

/rant

Good luck to the rest of you at SMU and enjoy University Park! Eat some Burger House and Bubba's Chicken for me!!!

[favrefire4]

Nothing like being complete since 12/9. Anyone beat that?