Harvard 2011 Applicants Forum

[DoubleChecks]

Maybe you aren't implying this, but you make it sounds like all submedian people are URM.

No, he's just saying that your post gives more hope to other URM's than it does to non-URM's who are submedian and have not gotten a JR1 yet. A non-URM JR1 splitter post would "give hope" for non-URM splitters since that variable is taken out of the equation.

yes, and it isnt like im guessing you're URM. your profile says it penguin lol (or it says ethnic minority, which i do assume means URM). if URM, your cycle will progress VERY differently from a non-URM, period. it would be misleading to say, "hey I have x GPA and x LSAT and got a JR1" in the attempt to give hope to the same people w/ x GPA and x LSAT...when you don't clarify that you're URM (as the post really only gives hope to x GPA and x LSAT applicants who are URM).

[DoubleChecks]

As for the actual phone interview, it lasted 5 minutes; JR asked me how my job was going, why I wanted to go to law school and why I wanted to go to Harvard (pretty simple answer: Learned Hand went there just kidding). He then asked if I had any questions, I said no but thank you for the opportunity to speak to you, and he then said we will keep reviewing applications and start sending out decisions by late November.

Just out of pure curiosity, is there any particular reason why didn't you ask any questions? I don't mean this in a rude way at all, but it seems like there is no better of an opportunity at this point in the cycle to learn about HLS than from the dean of admissions himself...

in general, id ask some question. i dont know how it'd affect the JR1, but basic interviewing goals (for future jobs) makes the "do you have any questions?" inquiry almost something that requires a response in the affirmative lol.

[penguin1234]

As for the actual phone interview, it lasted 5 minutes; JR asked me how my job was going, why I wanted to go to law school and why I wanted to go to Harvard (pretty simple answer: Learned Hand went there just kidding). He then asked if I had any questions, I said no but thank you for the opportunity to speak to you, and he then said we will keep reviewing applications and start sending out decisions by late November.

Just out of pure curiosity, is there any particular reason why didn't you ask any questions? I don't mean this in a rude way at all, but it seems like there is no better of an opportunity at this point in the cycle to learn about HLS than from the dean of admissions himself...

in general, id ask some question. i dont know how it'd affect the JR1, but basic interviewing goals (for future jobs) makes the "do you have any questions?" inquiry almost something that requires a response in the affirmative lol.

I didn't ask a question because I honestly didn't have one. There is only so much he has time to answer anyway, so I said that I had done a lot of research into HLS, had visited HLS already, met with some students and alums who I had already asked many questions of, and I didn't have any questions for him.

I am not sure I agree with the idea that the question requires a response if you can answer why you don't have a question. I've done a fair share of interviews in my life and watched a lot of people do interviews, and it is better to answer the real questions the right way and then shut up; who knows what the interviewer might think of your question for him? The most probable thing to pop into his head is either "Common question, and it's on the the website" or "really? that's what you are interested in? Some minutiae like that?" I can't honestly think of a question that I could have asked him where he would be impressed by my question. As for his possible thoughts on my not asking a question, I can only think of a few, but they all basically follow two trains of thought: "So you really have no questions about this school you are ready to give $250k to?" or "Ok, next call." I think that if you think about your interests and passions and why you want to go to law school, and show that you thought about those a good deal, whoever interviews you is going to think you cared enough to prepare for the interview, so is asking an additional question that big of a deal? If you disagree with this for some reason, I'd like to see what you think, because I would like to see the other side of the coin.

Ultimately, I think a lot of the phone interview stuff gets really hyped. Obviously, at that point, the statistics show that you are in pool of about 1200 people with about a 66% of getting in; but people just need to keep it simple. Be polite, speak honestly, show you thought about the questions beforehand, and answer the question you are actually asked. Even if you stuttered a little or rambled, that's just a sign that you are trying to be thoughtful, which shows you cared a lot. You aren't a lawyer, yet; wait to craft a perfect speech for the courtroom. It is not rocket science. It's a phone interview.

[arism87]

I totally agree. It is hard to ask a good question now-- anything I was wondering I have already researched with this wonderful thing called the Internet. I think it's starting to be just good manners on their end - they just asked you questions, it's only polite to let you ask a few. But really, what could he say that you couldn't have already found out? And is he really an unbiased source, anyway?

[DoubleChecks]

in general, id ask some question. i dont know how it'd affect the JR1, but basic interviewing goals (for future jobs) makes the "do you have any questions?" inquiry almost something that requires a response in the affirmative lol.

I didn't ask a question because I honestly didn't have one. There is only so much he has time to answer anyway, so I said that I had done a lot of research into HLS, had visited HLS already, met with some students and alums who I had already asked many questions of, and I didn't have any questions for him.

I am not sure I agree with the idea that the question requires a response if you can answer why you don't have a question. I've done a fair share of interviews in my life and watched a lot of people do interviews, and it is better to answer the real questions the right way and then shut up; who knows what the interviewer might think of your question for him? The most probable thing to pop into his head is either "Common question, and it's on the the website" or "really? that's what you are interested in? Some minutiae like that?" I can't honestly think of a question that I could have asked him where he would be impressed by my question. As for his possible thoughts on my not asking a question, I can only think of a few, but they all basically follow two trains of thought: "So you really have no questions about this school you are ready to give $250k to?" or "Ok, next call." I think that if you think about your interests and passions and why you want to go to law school, and show that you thought about those a good deal, whoever interviews you is going to think you cared enough to prepare for the interview, so is asking an additional question that big of a deal? If you disagree with this for some reason, I'd like to see what you think, because I would like to see the other side of the coin.

Ultimately, I think a lot of the phone interview stuff gets really hyped. Obviously, at that point, the statistics show that you are in pool of about 1200 people with about a 66% of getting in; but people just need to keep it simple. Be polite, speak honestly, show you thought about the questions beforehand, and answer the question you are actually asked. Even if you stuttered a little or rambled, that's just a sign that you are trying to be thoughtful, which shows you cared a lot. You aren't a lawyer, yet; wait to craft a perfect speech for the courtroom. It is not rocket science. It's a phone interview.

for your reading pleasure, i bolded the important bits of my post.

im sure you could swing no questions in your favor. im doubly sure that not giving one isnt automatically going to damn you, esp. for the JR1. i have no idea whether it'd affect anything. what i have heard (directly from hiring law partners on panels) is that if you dont have a question for them during the screening/cbs...then something is seriously going wrong in 95%+ of the cases. do you run the risk of everything you talked about in your 2nd paragraph? sure, but thats also why they want to see an answer. dont ask a dumb one; they want to see someone who DOES research on the firm, and w/ that asks a question that stems from it or another question, both of which may tell them a bit about you...and you about them...because it is about fit and culture. it also lets you know something that you CANT get from a website.

the whole point is asking a good question is difficult to do...thats why when you do it...it is a definite plus.

does the above apply to JR1s? as i said in the first post, im not entirely sure...but the idea behind it is similar, and in general, i think you're definitely safer thinking of a GOOD question to ask and asking it than saying you have no questions at all. will the latter method work? sure, but since we're giving general advice...that's what id say is safer.

[penguin1234]

I totally agree. It is hard to ask a good question now-- anything I was wondering I have already researched with this wonderful thing called the Internet. I think it's starting to be just good manners on their end - they just asked you questions, it's only polite to let you ask a few. But really, what could he say that you couldn't have already found out? And is he really an unbiased source, anyway?

A good question for him might just be: "What are the funniest questions people have asked you at this point in the phone interview?" Maybe we should have a thread just on funny questions to ask him if we are all lucky enough to meet him next September.

[Zatarra]

More simply, ask a semi-personal question. No, not 'what's your dog's name' or something weirdly invasive -- but remember JR himself went to Harvard Law, and is running the ground operation when it comes to admissions so I'd say he definitely has some insight to give on Harvard, that, while biased, might still be useful (actually, maybe even more useful because of that intimate perspective). That, of course, and a question like that shows you've done a modicum of research not just on the school you're applying to, but on the person who's interviewing you. In the world of interviews, the sound of the interviewer's voice is not a bad thing!

That said, I definitely don't think not asking a question is going to damn or even hurt you, as long as it didn't sound like you were just mumbling your way through the interview and not paying attention -- Harvard does have a reeaaally comprehensive website, and a ton of alums!

[DoubleChecks]

More simply, ask a semi-personal question. No, not 'what's your dog's name' or something weirdly invasive -- but remember JR himself went to Harvard Law, and is running the ground operation when it comes to admissions so I'd say he definitely has some insight to give on Harvard, that, while biased, might still be useful (actually, maybe even more useful because of that intimate perspective). That, of course, and a question like that shows you've done a modicum of research not just on the school you're applying to, but on the person who's interviewing you. In the world of interviews, the sound of the interviewer's voice is not a bad thing!

That said, I definitely don't think not asking a question is going to damn or even hurt you, as long as it didn't sound like you were just mumbling your way through the interview and not paying attention -- Harvard does have a reeaaally comprehensive website, and a ton of alums!

this pretty much sums up my 2nd post, but in a much better way haha

+1

[The Stig]

had visited HLS already, met with some students and alums who I had already asked many questions of, and I didn't have any questions for him.

This is a great reason not to have any questions...

I was not implying that it is necessary to ask a question simply for the sake of asking one (some girl asked how important GPA is in admission–since she had a low engineering GPA-during the an HLS info session on campus. JR wasn't exactly excited to answer it). But there are some things for which you can't really know from website without visiting the campus/talking to students....and since you already did these, it makes sense that you didn't really have any questions!

[7ED]

I've been scoping this thread for a while already, and I've been stopping myself from posting because this really is *not* a healthy environment . If there be a breeding ground for pointless anxiety and neuroticism, this is it.

Nevertheless, I couldn't control myself.

As part of the group of sub-median, above 25th percentile-ers (both LSAT and GPA), I can safely say that no amount of thread-monitoring is going to make the JR1 come any sooner.

I submitted 9/15, under review 10/6. I am still under review. No JR1.

Let us be stoic, stalwart, and strong.
Theres always time to curl into a ball and sob *after* we've been denied.

[Knock]

I've been scoping this thread for a while already, and I've been stopping myself from posting because this really is *not* a healthy environment . If there be a breeding ground for pointless anxiety and neuroticism, this is it.

Nevertheless, I couldn't control myself.

As part of the group of sub-median, above 25th percentile-ers (both LSAT and GPA), I can safely say that no amount of thread-monitoring is going to make the JR1 come any sooner.

I submitted 9/15, under review 10/6. I am still under review. No JR1.

Let us be stoic, stalwart, and strong.
Theres always time to curl into a ball and sob *after* we've been denied.

Those are my numbers too, and my exact same situation. Pretty much resigned myself to the fact that i'm never getting a JR1. Oh well. Best of luck to the both of us.

[4for44]

nothing to see here

[094320]

..

[mgoblue11]

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

[oxford_don]

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

+1 I'm predicting 11/22 for the first round of JR2s.

[rundoxierun]

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

+1 I'm predicting 11/22 for the first round of JR2s.

Same.. Im a URM though so if the past holds up I might be waiting a bit longer than the first batchers.

[kazu]

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

+1 I'm predicting 11/22 for the first round of JR2s.

Either way this thread is going to explode one week from now....

[mgoblue11]

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

+1 I'm predicting 11/22 for the first round of JR2s.

Same.. Im a URM though so if the past holds up I might be waiting a bit longer than the first batchers.

Do we know why this is the case? I can't believe Harvard really segregates its applicant pool into URMs and non-URMs and then just skims the cream from both?

[WestOfTheRest]

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

+1 I'm predicting 11/22 for the first round of JR2s.

Same.. Im a URM though so if the past holds up I might be waiting a bit longer than the first batchers.

I don't know about this. I see this being the case for URMs with sub-par stats, but for someone with competitive numbers against the entire applicant pool I don't know if this would be the case.

[rundoxierun]

Do we know why this is the case? I can't believe Harvard really segregates its applicant pool into URMs and non-URMs and then just skims the cream from both?

Idk, Im just going by what I have been told. There just isnt enough data to even know. LSN only lists one possible legit URM with a JR1 early enough to be eligible for the first batch. He got in with the first batch but the guy had an absolutely insane resume.

[pinkzeppelin]

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

+1 I'm predicting 11/22 for the first round of JR2s.

Let's look at the past five cycles based on LSN:

Cycle, Day of Thanksgiving Week
2009-2010, Monday
2008-2009, Tuesday and Wednesday
2007-2008, Wednesday
2006-2007, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday
2005-2006, Friday?!

They better not do it Friday again!

Anyway, my bet is Tuesday 11/23.

[Nulli Secundus]

Question to people with info / experience: "Waiting for December score" is done during "Under Review" and/or "Held" and/or "Waitlisted" statuses or being stuck at "Application Received" also means they are waiting for my December LSAT score. Granted, it hasn't been long enough to warrant a conclusion of being stuck, but just curious, what would the status checker show when the admissions office is waiting for the December score?

[Fresh]

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

+1 I'm predicting 11/22 for the first round of JR2s.

Let's look at the past five cycles based on LSN:

Cycle, Day of Thanksgiving Week
2009-2010, Monday
2008-2009, Tuesday and Wednesday
2007-2008, Wednesday
2006-2007, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday
2005-2006, Friday?!

They better not do it Friday again!

Anyway, my bet is Tuesday 11/23.

I wouldn't be surprised for a day later in the week since the October scores came out at the end of October this year. Is there some sort of correlation? Probably not, but it's fun to speck-a-late

[Calla Lily]

Alright, I went through the rest of the data, so it is time for a little more fun with (potentially unrepresentative) numbers.

Below are the numbers for those who had JR1s, but no JR2s:

180 3.97 Waitlisted - Submitted: 11/20/2009 JR1: 12/22/2009
180 3.79 Waitlisted - Submitted: 9/29/2009 JR1: 11/6/2009
168 3.94 (URM) WL, Rejected - Submitted: 10/17/2009 JR1: 11/19/2009
171 3.91 Waitlisted - Submitted: 11/2/2009 JR1: 3/3/2010
173 3.94 Waitlisted - Submitted: 10/9/2009 JR1: 11/5/2010
171 3.68 (URM) Waitlisted - Submitted: 10/18/2009 JR1: 11/19/2010
176 3.8 Waitlisted - Submitted: 12/8/2009 JR1: 1/7/2010
166 3.67 Waitlisted - Submitted: 12/4/2009 JR1: 4/2/2010
179 3.24 Rejected - Submitted: 9/15/2009 JR1: 11/5/2009

Below are the numbers for the 3 candidates that I found that had pre-Thanksgiving JR1s who did not get in during the first round of acceptances but got in later (not including WL then accepted):


171 3.93 Accepted - Submitted: 10/27/2009 JR1: 11/17/2009 Held: 1/13/2010 JR2: 3/8/2010
176 3.92 Accepted - Submitted: 9/26/2009 JR1: 11/5/2009 JR2: 12/14/2009
169 3.92 Accepted - Submitted: 9/15/2009 JR1: 11/3/2009 Held: 1/15/2010 JR2: 4/6/2010

And for some more uplifting news, I looked at the length of time between the submission date and the JR1 date for those candidates that got a JR1. The pattern for those candidates that had JR1s but were not admitted was not consistent enough to produce a meaningful average. The average amount of time between submission and the JR1 for admitted candidates who reported both was 34 days (total days rather than business days). There were 12 instances in which candidates received a JR1 a month and a half or longer after they submitted, and many others that had their JR1s at least a month after submitting. Keep the hope alive!

[thecilent]

lol You is funny Calla Lil