In at Chicago! Forum

[agentzer0]

Just got back from vacation to my lovely 100%* aid offer. *100 loans clearly counts as aid

Not terribly relevant, but more amusing than dwelling on the financial massacre:

..buuut everyone knows you can't trust people on the internet! What if they suck in real life? Who knows how long they spent crafting that witty, down to earth, but seemingly unforced response(s)...?

ahh but I've touched a girl's boobs... so who's really the winner here?

lol, ok that post was CLEARLY intentioned for mining more gold from douche-face user "do-you-not-know-who-I-am?!?!?" Sadly I failed.

[ontologyfail]

Just got back from vacation to my lovely 100%* aid offer. *100 loans clearly counts as aid

Not terribly relevant, but more amusing than dwelling on the financial massacre:

..buuut everyone knows you can't trust people on the internet! What if they suck in real life? Who knows how long they spent crafting that witty, down to earth, but seemingly unforced response(s)...?

ahh but I've touched a girl's boobs... so who's really the winner here?

lol, ok that post was CLEARLY intentioned for mining more gold from douche-face user "do-you-not-know-who-I-am?!?!?" Sadly I failed.

You could have saved it by pointing out that if it's witty enough for sean connery, it should be witty enough for TLS. Last 30 seconds or so (I think. Hulu is now blocking proxies in addition to european IP addresses. jerks.) http://www.hulu.com/watch/12768/saturda ... nd-connery

[johnstuartmill]

I'm also looking to negotiate money from UChicago. I was very upset to learn last week that, although I have basically no money, and although my parents wouldn't be able to chip in more than a few thousand dollars a year even IF they were supporting me (which they aren't), I'm getting NO need-based aid. This will essentially preclude me from going to law school at UChicago, because I don't plan to go into private practice, which is the only way I'd be able to pay off my loans easily.

Unfortunately, I don't have a very strong bargaining position with UChicago, because I applied ED and my GPA is low. I only applied ED, though, because of the prospect of need-based aid that the school advertised. I've since come to the conclusion, through my experience and the experience of other applicants in similar situations, that need-based aid does not actually exist at UChicago Law. It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

[miamiman]

I'm also looking to negotiate money from UChicago. I was very upset to learn last week that, although I have basically no money, and although my parents wouldn't be able to chip in more than a few thousand dollars a year even IF they were supporting me (which they aren't), I'm getting NO need-based aid. This will essentially preclude me from going to law school at UChicago, because I don't plan to go into private practice, which is the only way I'd be able to pay off my loans easily.

Unfortunately, I don't have a very strong bargaining position with UChicago, because I applied ED and my GPA is low. I only applied ED, though, because of the prospect of need-based aid that the school advertised. I've since come to the conclusion, through my experience and the experience of other applicants in similar situations, that need-based aid does not actually exist at UChicago Law. It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

bro we all feel for you but most of us (including myself) think it's mostly on you and not them. few reasons:

1.) if need-based aid was such a windfall, then there'd be little need for merit money. however, most of us know that need-based aid from law school is .... well, somewhat imaginary so if you really are/were in a position of need you shouldn't have applied ED.

2.) If you want to withdraw and reapply, that's fine. They'll probably even let you do that. No need to make empty threats to them -- it'll just piss them off and worsen ur already shitty bargaining position.

3.) My only other advice is to suck it up, take out loans like the rest of us, and try to get a private firm job at the outset.

[Kretzy]

I'm also looking to negotiate money from UChicago. I was very upset to learn last week that, although I have basically no money, and although my parents wouldn't be able to chip in more than a few thousand dollars a year even IF they were supporting me (which they aren't), I'm getting NO need-based aid. This will essentially preclude me from going to law school at UChicago, because I don't plan to go into private practice, which is the only way I'd be able to pay off my loans easily.

Unfortunately, I don't have a very strong bargaining position with UChicago, because I applied ED and my GPA is low. I only applied ED, though, because of the prospect of need-based aid that the school advertised. I've since come to the conclusion, through my experience and the experience of other applicants in similar situations, that need-based aid does not actually exist at UChicago Law. It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

I think a tone of disappointment, rather than threat, would be helpful. I wouldn't threaten to withdraw, though I think you would be within your rights to do so (as it is for anyone, well, at any school).

Your biggest problem seems to be that they don't promise any aid offers based solely on need, and specifically state that they take into account both need and merit factors when determining aid. I think you're more right here, and rightly angry, but I don't think they're likely to change their position.

Just my thoughts. Best of luck.

[Fancy Pants]

It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

Uh, worst idea ever?

First off, you can't prove that Chicago doesn't give out need-based aid. Your only "proof" is that you think you deserve need-based aid and you didn't get it. You would be laughed at if you tried to "publicize the school's duplicity" about this.

Second off, if you really did ED because of the assumption that you'd be getting need-based aid, you deserve to be in the mess that you're in. That was a stupid decision on your part, and making Chicago out to be some big bad misleading devil doesn't get you out of the fact that you decided to ED to a $40k+ school knowing that you would definitely need financial assistance.

So yeah. Threaten to hurt their yield. See what happens.

[IAFG]

It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

I don't understand why you are fixating on CCN if you are so debt-averse. CLS and NYU aren't going to do much better by you.

[Kronk]

It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

I don't understand why you are fixating on CCN if you are so debt-averse. CLS and NYU aren't going to do much better by you.

+1. Just apply to WUSTL already.

[AngryAvocado]

I agree with the above posters for the most part. I'd also add that it might be worthwhile to ask about or investigate the claim that they are working on a major overhaul of the LARP. I would be pretty surprised if they don't come out with something competitive with NYU and CLS in the not-too-distant.

Second, as someone already pointed out, if worst comes to worse, private practice for the short term isn't a horrific option. Expecting significant need-based aid from any top school short of maybe YH is naive, I think, and you'll be relying heavily on loans at any top school. I daresay that the the COL difference alone in NYC will likely cancel out (at least) any merit or need-based aid you'll get from NYU/CLS. The LARP difference is substantial, but as I suggested earlier, I would look into Chicago's expected changes before jumping to any decision.

Third, as Kretzy said, the last thing you want to do is sound aggressive or start tossing threats around. You shouldn't have ever applied ED and sacrificed any and all bargaining power if money was such an issue, especially if your end goal is public interest. That's your fault, not theirs. However, I think Chicago still might be the best place for you, particularly if they update their LARP in the near future. Don't burn that bridge if you don't have to.

[johnstuartmill]

It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

Uh, worst idea ever?

First off, you can't prove that Chicago doesn't give out need-based aid. Your only "proof" is that you think you deserve need-based aid and you didn't get it. You would be laughed at if you tried to "publicize the school's duplicity" about this.

It's not just my experience, Fancy Pants. There's another poster here who says that he got no aid even though his parents make $20,000/yr combined. Obviously, I would verify this story before threatening bad publicity, but if this poster isn't bullshitting, then the case against the existence of need-based aid at Chicago is very strong: if need-based aid exists at Chicago, then surely this person would be getting some money; however, this person got no need-based aid, therefore need-based aid does not exist at Chicago.

Second off, if you really did ED because of the assumption that you'd be getting need-based aid, you deserve to be in the mess that you're in. That was a stupid decision on your part, and making Chicago out to be some big bad misleading devil doesn't get you out of the fact that you decided to ED to a $40k+ school knowing that you would definitely need financial assistance.

I didn't ED to Chicago because of the assumption that I'd be getting need-based aid. I applied because of the assurance that need-based aid existed at Chicago, even if I knew there was a non-trivial chance that I wouldn't be getting any of it. I don't understand why my hypothetical attempt to hold Chicago to account for its representations is upsetting you so much.

[johnstuartmill]

It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

I don't understand why you are fixating on CCN if you are so debt-averse. CLS and NYU aren't going to do much better by you.

I'm trying to break into academia. It seems, though, that the stereotype of academia being largely restricted to the wealthy is not without foundation.

[zoey15]

i really doubt most people have the resources to pay for law school out of pocket. i think people need to reconcile their preconceived ideas about need v. merit aid with the reality of the situation, which is that a large majority of people would qualify for need based aid if we were talking about undergrad admissions (and assuming people are status independent of their parents). unfortunately, UG aid is not the same as law school aid. outside of federal loan dollars, there is really no such thing as need based aid in law school. they give you merit money if they want you to attend/raise their medians, and if not, you take out the loans and deal, like everyone else.

[johnstuartmill]

I agree with the above posters for the most part. I'd also add that it might be worthwhile to ask about or investigate the claim that they are working on a major overhaul of the LARP. I would be pretty surprised if they don't come out with something competitive with NYU and CLS in the not-too-distant.

Second, as someone already pointed out, if worst comes to worse, private practice for the short term isn't a horrific option. Expecting significant need-based aid from any top school short of maybe YH is naive, I think, and you'll be relying heavily on loans at any top school. I daresay that the the COL difference alone in NYC will likely cancel out (at least) any merit or need-based aid you'll get from NYU/CLS. The LARP difference is substantial, but as I suggested earlier, I would look into Chicago's expected changes before jumping to any decision.

Third, as Kretzy said, the last thing you want to do is sound aggressive or start tossing threats around. You shouldn't have ever applied ED and sacrificed any and all bargaining power if money was such an issue, especially if your end goal is public interest. That's your fault, not theirs. However, I think Chicago still might be the best place for you, particularly if they update their LARP in the near future. Don't burn that bridge if you don't have to.

This is good advice, Avocado. I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm out for blood. I guess I'm upset mostly because I feel like I was lied to about the existence of need-based aid.

[IAFG]

It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

I don't understand why you are fixating on CCN if you are so debt-averse. CLS and NYU aren't going to do much better by you.

I'm trying to break into academia. It seems, though, that the stereotype of academia being largely restricted to the wealthy is not without foundation.

you are also trying to have your cake and eat it too. i would like a cheap top law degree too, so i would have greater professional flexibility, but i have a 3.5, so that isn't in the cards.

i don't mean to be harsh but you are coming across as really entitled here.

[ontologyfail]

I don't understand why my hypothetical attempt to hold Chicago to account for its representations is upsetting you so much.

JSM, I don't think that your attempt to hold Chicago accountable is upsetting anyone; I think most of us just believe that it would end poorly for you, and not make any real difference to Chicago either way. I know you're upset right now, but really, what can you do to them? Make nasty posts on a semi-anonymous internet forum? Tell everyone you know in real life that they make misleading insinuations about the availability of financial aid? They admit about 600 applicants a year, if I remember correctly. That means you are capable of making a .1667% difference in their yield rate. Take some time, calm down, and really think about your options before you take any action.

[redes]

i really doubt most people have the resources to pay for law school out of pocket. i think people need to reconcile their preconceived ideas about need v. merit aid with the reality of the situation, which is that a large majority of people would qualify for need based aid if we were talking about undergrad admissions (and assuming people are status independent of their parents). unfortunately, UG aid is not the same as law school aid. outside of federal loan dollars, there is really no such thing as need based aid in law school. they give you merit money if they want you to attend/raise their medians, and if not, you take out the loans and deal, like everyone else.

/thread.

Now lets move on

[Kronk]

Think about it this what johnstuart--> even if you get a 60K scholarship, you're going to be 140k in debt. I don't see how that's much better than being 202K in debt if you don't plan to be making much money. It's still FAR too much if you're looking to avoid crippling loan payments.

It's a top six school. Most people swallow the debt if they want the benefits a T6 degree offers.

[johnstuartmill]

Sigh. I solicited advice, and although I didn't hear what I wanted to hear, it looks like I heard what I needed to hear. Sorry for the moodiness, everyone, and thanks for helping me check myself.

[rayiner]

I'm also looking to negotiate money from UChicago. I was very upset to learn last week that, although I have basically no money, and although my parents wouldn't be able to chip in more than a few thousand dollars a year even IF they were supporting me (which they aren't), I'm getting NO need-based aid. This will essentially preclude me from going to law school at UChicago, because I don't plan to go into private practice, which is the only way I'd be able to pay off my loans easily.

Unfortunately, I don't have a very strong bargaining position with UChicago, because I applied ED and my GPA is low. I only applied ED, though, because of the prospect of need-based aid that the school advertised. I've since come to the conclusion, through my experience and the experience of other applicants in similar situations, that need-based aid does not actually exist at UChicago Law. It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

If you want to do public interest or government work, you have IBR, so what are you bitching for?

That's the whole point of IBR --- to allow people from prestigious schools carrying big debt the flexibility to go into public interest work.

[johnstuartmill]

I'm also looking to negotiate money from UChicago. I was very upset to learn last week that, although I have basically no money, and although my parents wouldn't be able to chip in more than a few thousand dollars a year even IF they were supporting me (which they aren't), I'm getting NO need-based aid. This will essentially preclude me from going to law school at UChicago, because I don't plan to go into private practice, which is the only way I'd be able to pay off my loans easily.

Unfortunately, I don't have a very strong bargaining position with UChicago, because I applied ED and my GPA is low. I only applied ED, though, because of the prospect of need-based aid that the school advertised. I've since come to the conclusion, through my experience and the experience of other applicants in similar situations, that need-based aid does not actually exist at UChicago Law. It seems, then, that I could credibly threaten to publicize the school's apparent duplicity, in addition to threatening to withdraw my application so that I can apply to other schools next year (I like my odds at NYU and Columbia), which would hurt their yield.

What do you guys think?

If you want to do public interest or government work, you have IBR, so what are you bitching for?

That's the whole point of IBR --- to allow people from prestigious schools carrying big debt the flexibility to go into public interest work.

I wasn't aware of this program -- this greatly assuages my fears. Thanks, rayiner.

[Fancy Pants]

you are also trying to have your cake and eat it too. i would like a cheap top law degree too, so i would have greater professional flexibility, but i have a 3.5, so that isn't in the cards.

i don't mean to be harsh but you are coming across as really entitled here.

This.

[IAFG]

you are also trying to have your cake and eat it too. i would like a cheap top law degree too, so i would have greater professional flexibility, but i have a 3.5, so that isn't in the cards.

i don't mean to be harsh but you are coming across as really entitled here.

This.

it's ok killer he came to his senses

<3

[Fancy Pants]

you are also trying to have your cake and eat it too. i would like a cheap top law degree too, so i would have greater professional flexibility, but i have a 3.5, so that isn't in the cards.

i don't mean to be harsh but you are coming across as really entitled here.

This.

it's ok killer he came to his senses

<3

Hah. Yeah - not sure how I managed to post but missed all of that? Epic fail on my part.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Has anyone who e-mailed Karla Vargas lately received a reply?

[Kronk]

Has anyone who e-mailed Karla Vargas lately received a reply?

You mean just in general, or on a specific topic? I emailed her last thursday and got a reply the same day.