Harvard 2010! Forum

[Sogui]

Hmm wait listed.

Never even got a JR1 so I'm assuming I really don't have a shot at HLS unless there's some phenomenal change in procedure.

I'm haven't checked this thread lately so I'm not sure who hasn't heard anything yet.

I'm not too surprised though, I was hoping for a JR1 at least, but if anything I'd like to be a living reminder the even the "most numbers based" law school of the top 3, Harvard still has little tolerance for under-achievers.

I may have a 176/3.87 on my records but my resume shows that's pretty much all I've got going for me. In the end that wasn't even enough to get me a phone call. I'll send an LOCI, but I've got my heart pretty set on Columbia now.

Law school is definitely more of a numbers game than say undergrad or even other grad schools, but it definitely takes more than strong numbers to get you into top law schools.

just now? another day ruined sitting checking mail. i have work to do.

Yup today. I guess some people are still standing. I'm surprised how fast I moved from hold-> waitlist. What are the situations for those of you still standing? JR1s? No calls but still silent? Holds but no waitlist?

[of Benito Cereno]

Hmm wait listed.

Never even got a JR1 so I'm assuming I really don't have a shot at HLS unless there's some phenomenal change in procedure.

I'm haven't checked this thread lately so I'm not sure who hasn't heard anything yet.

I'm not too surprised though, I was hoping for a JR1 at least, but if anything I'd like to be a living reminder the even the "most numbers based" law school of the top 3, Harvard still has little tolerance for under-achievers.

I may have a 176/3.87 on my records but my resume shows that's pretty much all I've got going for me. In the end that wasn't even enough to get me a phone call. I'll send an LOCI, but I've got my heart pretty set on Columbia now.

Law school is definitely more of a numbers game than say undergrad or even other grad schools, but it definitely takes more than strong numbers to get you into top law schools.

just now? another day ruined sitting checking mail. i have work to do.

Yup today. I guess some people are still standing. I'm surprised how fast I moved from hold-> waitlist. What are the situations for those of you still standing? JR1s? No calls but still silent? Holds but no waitlist?

no jr1, held a few months back, high lsat splitter, after hold send a whole bunch of material that i let myself hope to be persuasive. now just waiting for a wl.

[MeredithGrey]

Harvard doesn't start until September; many other schools start in mid- to late-August. IS it possible to begin attending one school, get accepted off the waitlist in late August/early September and then go to Harvard?

Yes it is.

Once you matriculate at a law school, another law school typically does not offer you a position to their class. The school you would ditch would be struggling to fill that slot when the other law school could easily pick someone off their waitlist that has not yet matriculated at a school. It's bad politics.

[r6_philly]

Did you get a WL, philly? Or are you still kept in the dark?

No. My working assumption is they haven't gotten to my file yet. Or they haven't gotten to the dings yet.

You'll be fine.

[Core]

Going to withdraw from the waitlist. Can't really wait any more. I need to get on with my life and not be waiting on them. Going to Penn.

Probably see you there

[Pee N]

Glad to see (well, for my sake, at least) that I'm not the only person still totally in the dark. GPA is between 50-75%, LSAT between 25-50%, complete in Nov, additional LOR in Jan, JR2 in March, not a peep since then. GL to everyone still held!

What is JR1 and JR2?

I am assuming these are Harvard's interviews but I thought they only do one?

JR1 is the interview. JR2 is when they call you to give you your Golden Ticket.

Not necessarily. The JR2 doesn't have to be a personal phone call form JR/HLS. Quite a few people have gotten e-mails notifying them of an offer.

Despite what JR1 has said in his blog, the so called JR1 has been waived for some candidates (eg. JD/MBA interview with HBS in lieu of the JR1, for some internationals, for the hearing impaired, etc). We've beaten this topic to death on here. Although, the vast majority of those who were extended offers, have in fact gotten JR1s. I wouldn't put too much stock in to JR1s, WLs, Held status, etc. If anything, historic precedent has shown repeatedly that HLS doesn't go by any playbook or timeline.

[neimanmarxist]

Harvard doesn't start until September; many other schools start in mid- to late-August. IS it possible to begin attending one school, get accepted off the waitlist in late August/early September and then go to Harvard?

Yes it is.

Once you matriculate at a law school, another law school typically does not offer you a position to their class. The school you would ditch would be struggling to fill that slot when the other law school could easily pick someone off their waitlist that has not yet matriculated at a school. It's bad politics.

It's in all schools' interests to allow students to sign non-binding enrollment agreements that allow them to leave for a better school in case they are admitted. If this policy is in place, it means that they , too, can fill up their classes should someone defer/ be unable to attend/ fall ill/ decide to go elsewhere. If all schools had binding enrollment agreements, a lot of them would end up with empty seats come fall. What's more, people would be hesitant to commit to schools if they couldn't stay on waitlists. In the end, they're selling a product. If you get a chance to buy a better product, they shouldn't legally bind you to buy theirs. That's bad politics.

[of Benito Cereno]

Harvard doesn't start until September; many other schools start in mid- to late-August. IS it possible to begin attending one school, get accepted off the waitlist in late August/early September and then go to Harvard?

Yes it is.

Once you matriculate at a law school, another law school typically does not offer you a position to their class. The school you would ditch would be struggling to fill that slot when the other law school could easily pick someone off their waitlist that has not yet matriculated at a school. It's bad politics.

most late hls wl/admits come from cls or other t10 schools that also have big waitlists filled with students who would drop anything to attend.

[creatinganalt]

Harvard doesn't start until September; many other schools start in mid- to late-August. IS it possible to begin attending one school, get accepted off the waitlist in late August/early September and then go to Harvard?

Yes it is.

Once you matriculate at a law school, another law school typically does not offer you a position to their class. The school you would ditch would be struggling to fill that slot when the other law school could easily pick someone off their waitlist that has not yet matriculated at a school. It's bad politics.

It still happens. They want who they want. Schools are filling their class til the last minutes. How would HLS know you have matriculated at CLS unless you tell them?

[Sogui]

Probably one of my last questions in this thread:

Should I remain hopeful if I'm being held--2weeks-->waitlisted and I've never gotten a JR1?

I mean (theoretically) JR didn't even like me enough to call me up, yet there are going to be dozens, if not hundreds, of people on the waitlist who JR has expressed some interest in.

Just wondering if I should assume I've been rejected and being kept around for convenience.

[Fancy Pants]

Not necessarily. The JR2 doesn't have to be a personal phone call form JR/HLS. Quite a few people have gotten e-mails notifying them of an offer.

Despite what JR1 has said in his blog, the so called JR1 has been waived for some candidates (eg. JD/MBA interview with HBS in lieu of the JR1, for some internationals, for the hearing impaired, etc). We've beaten this topic to death on here. Although, the vast majority of those who were extended offers, have in fact gotten JR1s. I wouldn't put too much stock in to JR1s, WLs, Held status, etc. If anything, historic precedent has shown repeatedly that HLS doesn't go by any playbook or timeline.

You're really quibbling over whether it's a call or an e-mail? Uh, okay.

[CoaltoNewCastle]

Invisiblesun, I am almost 100% confident that you will be in HLS in the fall. You are definitely gonna get in.

If I had a thousand dollars for every time somebody has said something like this to me, I could pay for law school. Sogui, I feel your pain. I think you, LmaoZedong, and I would be in at Harvard if we had applied last year. Bleh. If only I hadn't let my grades slip a little bit.

[lt0826]

Who is still standing?

That'd be me. No hold, no JR1, no waitlist.

I'm in this bunch. Looks like they are working their way through the held candidates. Really hoping I am not in the giant reject pile but know that's the most likely scenario.

[soonergirl]

Just wondering if I should assume I've been rejected and being kept around for convenience.

The entire list is for their convenience. They have to have enough candidates on hand to account for all possibilities, so that as people withdraw they can keep their median GPA and LSAT static. That's why their waitlist is so absurdly long. What if all 250 of their nonmatriculators were above the median GPA? They could probably replace that many GPAs, but what would that do to the LSAT median? There's some Excel spreadsheet somewhere that they're manipulating every which way to make sure that every scenario is accounted for. I can't imagine how complicated it must be.

[soonergirl]

I am just curious to know if there's any non-trads on the WL simply because this could give me some idea if whether or not those non-trads with borderline numbers are on the "on-the-fence" bucket...

http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ,8&type=jd

This can be a little misleading, though, since a lot of applicants have pretty loose definitions of NT.

[MeredithGrey]

Harvard doesn't start until September; many other schools start in mid- to late-August. IS it possible to begin attending one school, get accepted off the waitlist in late August/early September and then go to Harvard?

Yes it is.

Once you matriculate at a law school, another law school typically does not offer you a position to their class. The school you would ditch would be struggling to fill that slot when the other law school could easily pick someone off their waitlist that has not yet matriculated at a school. It's bad politics.

It's in all schools' interests to allow students to sign non-binding enrollment agreements that allow them to leave for a better school in case they are admitted. If this policy is in place, it means that they , too, can fill up their classes should someone defer/ be unable to attend/ fall ill/ decide to go elsewhere. If all schools had binding enrollment agreements, a lot of them would end up with empty seats come fall. What's more, people would be hesitant to commit to schools if they couldn't stay on waitlists. In the end, they're selling a product. If you get a chance to buy a better product, they shouldn't legally bind you to buy theirs. That's bad politics.

I am talking about people who already STARTED at a school. When you apply to law schools, most applications state, have you ever matriculated at a law school. Because once you are in your first day of class, it's a different scenario. You are now a CLS student. In many graduate schools (medicine, dentistry, law, etc), when they call you to offer you a position off a waiting list, they ask you where you are currently planning on attending or are attending. If you say CLS, they may not make the offer because you are now a CLS, and no longer available on a waiting list. Or alternatively, they already know where you are planning on attending from your LOCI where you state, "I would leave my current program of CLS, if offered a position at your school in a heartbeat". If CLS's start date has already passed, chances are theyll offer somebody else to fill the spot with the demographics they need who hasnt already started a law school. There may be a few rare stories here and there. But for the most part, you dont hear too manystories of people dropping out of programs to take other slots the first days of school. It would be a domino effect and a disaster. Into late August, waitlist offers will go to people who arent currently enrolled in programs

[jasmoon]

Yup today. I guess some people are still standing. I'm surprised how fast I moved from hold-> waitlist. What are the situations for those of you still standing? JR1s? No calls but still silent? Holds but no waitlist?

I was held back in January, no JR1. Still waiting. I haven't sent any additional material, and not really planning on it. Here's hoping it doesn't count against me.

[of Benito Cereno]

I am just curious to know if there's any non-trads on the WL simply because this could give me some idea if whether or not those non-trads with borderline numbers are on the "on-the-fence" bucket...

http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ,8&type=jd

This can be a little misleading, though, since a lot of applicants have pretty loose definitions of NT.

apparently there are actually a whole bunch of high lsat splitters still pending
http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ype=jd&p=1

[invisiblesun]

Invisiblesun, I am almost 100% confident that you will be in HLS in the fall. You are definitely gonna get in.

If I had a thousand dollars for every time somebody has said something like this to me, I could pay for law school. Sogui, I feel your pain. I think you, LmaoZedong, and I would be in at Harvard if we had applied last year. Bleh. If only I hadn't let my grades slip a little bit.

Sorry to hear that Coal. One of the reasons I'm trying not to be that optimistic.

[Sogui]

Invisiblesun, I am almost 100% confident that you will be in HLS in the fall. You are definitely gonna get in.

If I had a thousand dollars for every time somebody has said something like this to me, I could pay for law school. Sogui, I feel your pain. I think you, LmaoZedong, and I would be in at Harvard if we had applied last year. Bleh. If only I hadn't let my grades slip a little bit.

I feel ya too, there's certainly comfort in thinking that it was just this crazy cycle to blame.

[of Benito Cereno]

pending high gpa splitters:
http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ,8&type=jd

pending high lsat splitters:
http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ,8&type=jd

between 20-30 of each.

also, so far there are 74 waitlists this year (10% of total profiles) vs 185 last year (23% of total profiles). so quite a few more waitlists to come in all likelihood.

[Sogui]

Just wondering if I should assume I've been rejected and being kept around for convenience.

The entire list is for their convenience. They have to have enough candidates on hand to account for all possibilities, so that as people withdraw they can keep their median GPA and LSAT static. That's why their waitlist is so absurdly long. What if all 250 of their nonmatriculators were above the median GPA? They could probably replace that many GPAs, but what would that do to the LSAT median? There's some Excel spreadsheet somewhere that they're manipulating every which way to make sure that every scenario is accounted for. I can't imagine how complicated it must be.

I agree that it's immensely complicated and I can't believe I'm still speculating at this point, but I'm sure there are people they keep on the waitlist who could "fit in" to Harvard but would only be considered under one of those "3+ standard deviation" events where all the non-matriculators were above median GPA, etc... and who really should not expect admission unless there is some extreme event.

Meanwhile while HLS surely doesn't rank its waitlisters, it has some attractive options on the WL that just missed the cut, already had their JR1s, and whom JR will probably reach out to as soon as they have an idea on how many seats they will need to fill.

So I'm convincing myself I fall into the former category, without a JR1 they would have almost no reason to admit me over someone JR has already expressed some degree of interest in.

[of Benito Cereno]

Just wondering if I should assume I've been rejected and being kept around for convenience.

The entire list is for their convenience. They have to have enough candidates on hand to account for all possibilities, so that as people withdraw they can keep their median GPA and LSAT static. That's why their waitlist is so absurdly long. What if all 250 of their nonmatriculators were above the median GPA? They could probably replace that many GPAs, but what would that do to the LSAT median? There's some Excel spreadsheet somewhere that they're manipulating every which way to make sure that every scenario is accounted for. I can't imagine how complicated it must be.

I agree that it's immensely complicated and I can't believe I'm still speculating at this point, but I'm sure there are people they keep on the waitlist who could "fit in" to Harvard but would only be considered under one of those "3+ standard deviation" events where all the non-matriculators were above median GPA, etc... and who really should not expect admission unless there is some extreme event.

Meanwhile while HLS surely doesn't rank its waitlisters, it has some attractive options on the WL that just missed the cut, already had their JR1s, and whom JR will probably reach out to as soon as they have an idea on how many seats they will need to fill.

So I'm convincing myself I fall into the former category, without a JR1 they would have almost no reason to admit me over someone JR has already expressed some degree of interest in.

instead of a complicated spreadsheets they could just replace any given candidate who withdraws with a candidate with similar numbers.

[soonergirl]

So I'm convincing myself I fall into the former category, without a JR1 they would have almost no reason to admit me over someone JR has already expressed some degree of interest in.

You and me both, sweetheart.

[Sogui]

Err can't get wrapped up in this stuff again. Looking forward to NYC and an amazing experience at Columbia. Harvard or not this thread has some amazing talent in it and doors will open regardless of where you end up.