Harvard 2010! Forum

[Nom Sawyer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/educa ... ef=general
judging by the huge number of wait-listed hls students in previous years I bet HLS's waitlist is much larger than its incoming class. Probably at least 1,000 waitlists.

I'm sure HLS does have a long enough waiting list that it's hard to get in off of it, but I don't think the same considerations that apply to undergrad schools apply to HLS (or other law schools at the very top). They do want diversity in the class, of course, but I feel like there are a lot of differences between when I was applying to UG (my weakness then was that I probably wasn't 'well-rounded' enough and was too one-dimensional with very high grades & test scores) and the current LS application process. IMO, undergrad schools care a lot more about soft factors than law schools, so it would make sense for them to have a bigger waiting list because they have a larger range of areas where they want to ensure diversity in the incoming class, and a large waitlist allows them to cover their bases in regard to that. Some schools will have a huge waitlist because they are YP-happy, but HLS doesn't fall into that category. I dunno...I just don't think HLS will be one of those schools with a ginormous waiting list. They'd probably rather just ding people who aren't up to their standards.

It sounds like schools often accept off the waiting list in particular response to certain needs, such as replacing a High LSAT or finishing the balance for diversity... thus I'd think that the waitlist would still be pretty large, but definitely not on the order of larger than the class.

A couple hundred at most would be my guess.

well over a hundred on lsn alone last year.... thats huge

hmm then based on the ratios I guess it would be 100+ times 4 or so.. so maybe 400? I don't quite see them waitlisting 800+ though, thats a huge amount.

[blue5385]

well over a hundred on lsn alone last year.... thats huge

hmm then based on the ratios I guess it would be 100+ times 4 or so.. so maybe 400? I don't quite see them waitlisting 800+ though, thats a huge amount.

Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.

[eattrucks]

185 on LSN last year (including those eventually accepted off the WL, 14). That is more than all of the acceptances listed on LSN for that year, 171 (this includes those who withdrew). Wait list may be around 800 and maybe more.

[Nom Sawyer]

185 on LSN last year (including those eventually accepted off the WL, 14). That is more than all of the acceptances listed on LSN for that year, 171 (this includes those who withdrew). Wait list may be around 800 and maybe more.

Last year they did a massive wave of rejects/ waitlist year though without as much of the hold business.

I think with the new, spread out admissions process along with all the holds that have gone out will result in a smaller waitlist. Just speculating, but sounds reasonable to me.

[Unitas]

well over a hundred on lsn alone last year.... thats huge

hmm then based on the ratios I guess it would be 100+ times 4 or so.. so maybe 400? I don't quite see them waitlisting 800+ though, thats a huge amount.

Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.

There really isn't a way too. It varies by too many factors. IIRC for most schools in the T14 the applicant total on LSN is around 10% of total applicants to that school. But when you get to waitlists and holds a much higher percentage are going to look for things like LSN to help them decide on the WL and their chances. Skewing any possible data.

I personally believe a WL above the total seats in a class is beyond unethical and possibly actionable - not a suit mind you, but a request for them not to do it anymore(no school can reasonably assume/predict/expect that they would need a fraction of them). There is really no need for that.

[Jericwithers]

Final decision soon? Has anyone been talking about this, or am I the first to bring it up?

[NightHooded]

I'm having trouble seeing the main point above... there's a waitlist of hundreds??

Maybe I don't want to see the main point. If it is that big of a list, that's just plain mean in my opinion. You'd like to think the WL is meaningful, not simply HLS keeping folks around in case their incoming class all dies somehow

[gatordude94]

I'm having trouble seeing the main point above... there's a waitlist of hundreds??

Maybe I don't want to see the main point. If it is that big of a list, that's just plain mean in my opinion. You'd like to think the WL is meaningful, not simply HLS keeping folks around in case their incoming class all dies somehow

In addition to being mean for leading so many held applicants on, it seems tremendously inefficient for the admissions staff. If deposits fall below expectations, or deferral requests rise, they might need to fill what? 25 spots? I don't see how a massive WL makes that easier. As some earlier post said, this isn't UG, it's not like HLS is going to need a Hawaiian trumpet player or Australian cancer survivor to complete the class. Maybe they'll pick kids with work experience, or high GPAs, but I can't imagine they'll need the range of options that a 800 person WL would offer.

[blue5385]

Someone should tell HLS that YLS has started their rejections...maybe it'll make Harvard issue decisions faster to compete with Yale's speediness.

[agathon360]

Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).

[lta]

Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).

ugh. not what I want to hear right now...

Though I'm sure true

[Unitas]

Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).

That is not what a WL is for, and would likely violate the Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices that all law schools agree on.

7. Law schools should maintain a waiting list of reasonable length and only for a reasonable length of time. Law schools using waiting lists should ensure that final decisions about applicants placed on the waiting lists are made and communicated to the applicant as soon as possible.

I read about law schools... A lot...
You can argue reasonable in this case, but having a WL above a class size at HLS is not reasonable.

[invisiblesun]

Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).

That is not what a WL is for, and would likely violate the Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices that all law schools agree on.

7. Law schools should maintain a waiting list of reasonable length and only for a reasonable length of time. Law schools using waiting lists should ensure that final decisions about applicants placed on the waiting lists are made and communicated to the applicant as soon as possible.

I read about law schools... A lot...
You can argue reasonable in this case, but having one above a class size as the number 2 law school is not reasonable.

I mean, we are using LSN data extrapolation to come to this conclusion though. The proportion of WL'd applicants on LSN to admitted ones could be unrepresentative.

[Unitas]

I mean, we are using LSN data extrapolation to come to this conclusion though. The proportion of WL'd applicants on LSN to admitted ones could be unrepresentative.

I know, I argued that above.

Edit: on page 259 at 4:20...

[odiero]

Is Harvard the only one with such a huge WL? I've seen "Columbia: waitlisted" quite a bit in the TLS profiles.

[clintonius]

Is Harvard the only one with such a huge WL? I've seen "Columbia: waitlisted" quite a bit in the TLS profiles.

The graph for UVA is almost pure yellow.

[of Benito Cereno]

I mean, we are using LSN data extrapolation to come to this conclusion though. The proportion of WL'd applicants on LSN to admitted ones could be unrepresentative.

I know, I argued that above.

still, if lsn lists almost 200 last year then there certainly are quite a lot of waitlisters-to-be out there right now.

[soonergirl]

Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.

you can't. LSN is young, so there are insufficient data to do so. What we do know is that the ratio varies from school to school, that it is increasing from year-to-year, and that the LSN sample is not representative of the applicant pool as a whole.

[MTC87]

Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).

ugh. not what I want to hear right now...

Though I'm sure true

im pretty sure this is the only reason i even got a jr1

[Jrugg88]

Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.

you can't. LSN is young, so there are insufficient data to do so. What we do know is that the ratio varies from school to school, that it is increasing from year-to-year, and that the LSN sample is not representative of the applicant pool as a whole.

Any thoughts on how the applicant pool is not representative of the applicant pool? E.g. what subset of the regular applicant pool do you think LSN reflects?

[invisiblesun]

Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.

you can't. LSN is young, so there are insufficient data to do so. What we do know is that the ratio varies from school to school, that it is increasing from year-to-year, and that the LSN sample is not representative of the applicant pool as a whole.

Any thoughts on how the applicant pool is not representative of the applicant pool? E.g. what subset of the regular applicant pool do you think LSN reflects?

The subset with mild to moderate OCD

[blue5385]

Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.

you can't. LSN is young, so there are insufficient data to do so. What we do know is that the ratio varies from school to school, that it is increasing from year-to-year, and that the LSN sample is not representative of the applicant pool as a whole.

Any thoughts on how the applicant pool is not representative of the applicant pool? E.g. what subset of the regular applicant pool do you think LSN reflects?

My guess would be stronger-than-average applicants, since these people seem like they'd be more serious about law school admissions and would therefore be more likely than the applicant pool as a whole to use a resource like LSN to track the cycles of people with similar data.

[Pee N]

LOL @ everyone talking about me.

Hereon, JR1s will be sporadic.

To the posters above commenting about the "leftover" pool, which'll consist of some WL's, older non-trads with valuable WE, borderlines adding to diversity, etc. I personally can attest to the veracity of this info. I have this from the horse's mouth @ HLS admissions. Although, I should note: don't expect any such movement until about mid-late May, or even early June or later. HLS is evasive and specious about timelines. Things are looking great for me on the HLS tip. Phone interview on deck.

With much love,

PN.

PS - I didn't get 'banned' per se. I just asked TLS admin to delete some of my posts (and quoted text) because I inadvertently let out some rather invasive (identifiable) personal information out about me. Purging my entire account seemed like the most feasible option, to which I consented. Either way, I'm travelling on business as I am on a project, so I won't be posting on TLS all that much.

[soonergirl]

The subset with mild to moderate OCD

BWAhahhahaha. so true.

[odiero]

I'm just glad I did UG when I did and don't have to put up with those waitlists.

Apparently all kinds of gimmicks work:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and- ... itlists/3/

I wonder...