Lewis & Clark 2011 Applicants Forum

[Tim0thy222]

Considering L&C's largest draws are animal law, environmental law, and victim's rights advocacy (none of which I'd expect to pay well starting out) this doesn't really surprise or concern me. But I live here and I know how nonprofit oriented/crunchy granola a large percentage of people who live here are. I would be more surprised to see a large % of grads making over 100K a year. Not because the school is bad, but because making that kind of money is sort of antithetical to the Oregon ideal as a whole. If you make that kind of money here, you better a) be quiet about it or b) have made it providing shoes for african orphans or something.

Yeah, I could see that being true if by Oregon you mean Oregon minus Lake Oswego and maybe Beaverton, and that probably is what Portlanders mean by Oregon.

And my point about the salary was not because I want to make 6 figures, but more because I thought it implied what crit_racer is saying - that a large portion of L&C grads aren't doing any legal work at all.

If few graduates have well paying jobs, it's not because Oregonians are too cool for money to accept the jobs (let's face it, at some point in law school at least some students will do the math and realize that $100k buys a lot of granola), it's because the jobs aren't available. If they aren't, then the best graduates are taking the crunchy jobs, leaving everyone else out in the rain.

[rinkrat19]

Considering L&C's largest draws are animal law, environmental law, and victim's rights advocacy (none of which I'd expect to pay well starting out) this doesn't really surprise or concern me. But I live here and I know how nonprofit oriented/crunchy granola a large percentage of people who live here are. I would be more surprised to see a large % of grads making over 100K a year. Not because the school is bad, but because making that kind of money is sort of antithetical to the Oregon ideal as a whole. If you make that kind of money here, you better a) be quiet about it or b) have made it providing shoes for african orphans or something.

This is just silly. As long as you aren't completely amoral (i.e. making your riches gleefully defending corporate polluters and child molestors), you give back a little (donate some time and money to something worthwhile and make it seem like you enjoy doing it), and you aren't a dick about the fact that some people don't make as much money as you and don't drive as nice a car as you (I'm looking at you, Lake Oswego residents), no one is going to shun you for having money.

Unless all your friends are hipsters. And then you just need new friends because hipsters are annoying as fuck.

[Tim0thy222]

Considering L&C's largest draws are animal law, environmental law, and victim's rights advocacy (none of which I'd expect to pay well starting out) this doesn't really surprise or concern me. But I live here and I know how nonprofit oriented/crunchy granola a large percentage of people who live here are. I would be more surprised to see a large % of grads making over 100K a year. Not because the school is bad, but because making that kind of money is sort of antithetical to the Oregon ideal as a whole. If you make that kind of money here, you better a) be quiet about it or b) have made it providing shoes for african orphans or something.

This is just silly. As long as you aren't completely amoral (i.e. making your riches gleefully defending corporate polluters and child molestors), you give back a little (donate some time and money to something worthwhile and make it seem like you enjoy doing it), and you aren't a dick about the fact that some people don't make as much money as you and don't drive as nice a car as you (I'm looking at you, Lake Oswego residents), no one is going to shun you for having money.

Unless all your friends are hipsters. And then you just need new friends because hipsters are annoying as fuck.

Yes! This is so very true, especially in Portland.

[geoduck]

Considering L&C's largest draws are animal law, environmental law, and victim's rights advocacy (none of which I'd expect to pay well starting out) this doesn't really surprise or concern me. But I live here and I know how nonprofit oriented/crunchy granola a large percentage of people who live here are. I would be more surprised to see a large % of grads making over 100K a year. Not because the school is bad, but because making that kind of money is sort of antithetical to the Oregon ideal as a whole. If you make that kind of money here, you better a) be quiet about it or b) have made it providing shoes for african orphans or something.

This is just silly. As long as you aren't completely amoral (i.e. making your riches gleefully defending corporate polluters and child molestors), you give back a little (donate some time and money to something worthwhile and make it seem like you enjoy doing it), and you aren't a dick about the fact that some people don't make as much money as you and don't drive as nice a car as you (I'm looking at you, Lake Oswego residents), no one is going to shun you for having money.

Unless all your friends are hipsters. And then you just need new friends because hipsters are annoying as fuck.

Yes! This is so very true, especially in Portland.

Seriously. How do you stay that dirty looking when it's always raining, anyhow?

[ldarling87]

Got in (though I didn't think I stood a chance, pm if you want my numbers) and now have so many questions I'd love answers to!

How's L&C's reputation in Oregon? I'm from San Francisco and have never been up there.

For those who have visited the campus, how was the feel? Warm and friendly? Stuffy? Intimidating?

Thanks

FYI, they're giving me NO money so if I'm gonna pay sticker price, I need all the help I can get in making a decision.

[rinkrat19]

Got in (though I didn't think I stood a chance, pm if you want my numbers) and now have so many questions I'd love answers to!

How's L&C's reputation in Oregon? I'm from San Francisco and have never been up there.

For those who have visited the campus, how was the feel? Warm and friendly? Stuffy? Intimidating?

Thanks

FYI, they're giving me NO money so if I'm gonna pay sticker price, I need all the help I can get in making a decision.

1. Reputation in Oregon is solid. All the Portland offices and firms I've looked up have had L&C grads. Keep in mind, however, that Portland is a pretty small legal market. (ETA: and the economy here still sucks.)

2. Campus is very small (only like 5 buildings), sequestered from the UG campus, and nice. The buildings are modern concrete/glass, built halfway into the forest so it looks like the campus is in danger of being swallowed up by trees and moss. Very relaxing and pretty, in a wild PNW forest kind of way. One main outdoor common area and a common gathering area in the admin building near a coffee cart and deli counter. The insides of the buildings are all modern and clean, with walls of windows and lots of natural light wherever practical (obviously not in the big lecture halls). Parking kinda sucks, with limited 3L/faculty parking on the law campus, and 1L & 2Ls banished to their own lot on the UG campus, a 10-minute walk away. (I also heard that they've been having problems with UG students using the 1L/2L lot, but were going to try and fix that.) Everyone I saw there seemed friendly, prone to holding doors open and smiling at strangers.

[observationalist]

For those of you who don't know, current L&C 2L.

I wanted to comment on the OCI issue.

Many students here do not really think much about OCI. I participated and had a few interviews, but no offers. OCI is not big here, and you really only have a decent chance at anything if you are a minority or top 10-15% (which I am, but still no offer - or callback). You really probably aren't going to get an OCI offer here (or Oregon or Willamette or Idaho or Gonzaga or Seattle or even probably Washington).

Networking isn't that hard. My recommendation is to do well in school (easier said than done), and be proactive in contacting the type of places you want to work for. A lot of them, from my experience, will give you a shot if you seem genuinely interested.

I was e-mailing last night with someone who graduated from L&C last year (May 2010) and still hasn't found a job. She said *most* of the people she graduated with have not found full time attorney positions yet and that the job market is very rough in Portland right now. She didn't tell me her rank or anything, but it really got me discouraged.

I also don't like how CSO clumps "JD Required" and "JD Preferred" into the same category because, let's face it, "JD Preferred"=doc review.

I have no problems trying to get a job on my own...I'll beat the block all day long w/ my resume, but I at least want to feel like there are jobs out there to be had. This girl made it seem like there weren't really any and that lots of attys from other (read: better) law schools and/or experience were migrating to Portland due to its high quality of life and taking jobs that could have gone to L&C grads.

The best way to figure out what Class of 2010 grads are doing is to ask the school for employer lists. There's no reason why you should only be allowed to see the % in JD required/preferred jobs, if that's the case. They can provide you fairly detailed information (e.g. employer name, employer type, city, FT/PT, and whether a JD was required, preferred, or not necessary) for every graduate who reported information. Salary information is harder to get since a lot of graduates (particularly PT and unemployeds) will not report salaries, but at the very least you need to know what the averages are for different sectors and how many individuals actually reported salaries in each sector. It's an enormous investment and you have a right to know what '10 grads found for work, especially those of you looking to do non-profit enviro stuff. As I was telling one applicant earlier, there are much cheaper ways to do environmental work if you aren't committed to doing JD-required (e.g. litigation) or JD-preferred (e.g. policy) work. Schools like L&C, Pace etc used to offer a fairly strong alumni network to assist you with job placement, but as of now there just aren't enough jobs and the ones that are available will go to graduates of more competitive programs who not only have impressive environmental backgrounds but also come with post-graduation stipends from their school. To my knowledge L&C does not offer grants to graduates looking to get their foot in the door at an NGO... but if you do end up going, that's something I would consider lobbying for while a student. G'luck.

[ldarling87]

Got in (though I didn't think I stood a chance, pm if you want my numbers) and now have so many questions I'd love answers to!

How's L&C's reputation in Oregon? I'm from San Francisco and have never been up there.

For those who have visited the campus, how was the feel? Warm and friendly? Stuffy? Intimidating?

Thanks

FYI, they're giving me NO money so if I'm gonna pay sticker price, I need all the help I can get in making a decision.

1. Reputation in Oregon is solid. All the Portland offices and firms I've looked up have had L&C grads. Keep in mind, however, that Portland is a pretty small legal market. (ETA: and the economy here still sucks.)

2. Campus is very small (only like 5 buildings), sequestered from the UG campus, and nice. The buildings are modern concrete/glass, built halfway into the forest so it looks like the campus is in danger of being swallowed up by trees and moss. Very relaxing and pretty, in a wild PNW forest kind of way. One main outdoor common area and a common gathering area in the admin building near a coffee cart and deli counter. The insides of the buildings are all modern and clean, with walls of windows and lots of natural light wherever practical (obviously not in the big lecture halls). Parking kinda sucks, with limited 3L/faculty parking on the law campus, and 1L & 2Ls banished to their own lot on the UG campus, a 10-minute walk away. (I also heard that they've been having problems with UG students using the 1L/2L lot, but were going to try and fix that.) Everyone I saw there seemed friendly, prone to holding doors open and smiling at strangers.

Thanks so much! I love your description of the campus. It sounds so beautiful! Sucks about the parking. Is it too far from residential areas to walk? If I can find a place close by I won't drive.

[twozeroseven]

Applied -> Held -> Waitlisted -> Withdrew

Held about a month ago, waitlisted today via email. I assume that all 'held' apps were waitlisted based on " At this time, we are unable to make any additional offers of admission." but i don't know. Which is too bad because I drafted a LOCI last night and was looking forward to sending it in as a personal attempt at transparency. My LOCI was this:

Quite frankly, at this late date (and as a pragmatist) I assume i will be attending to my second choice school. I can't write compellingly about why i should be admitted off the hold list at L&C. I haven't visited, and much of what we 0Ls know about law school is based on marketing, hype, and stereotype. What I can say is that I'd like the option to burn through a grand on a trip to Oregon to visit L&C, even knowing that it would probably greatly complicate (and potentially overturn) my decision to attend a cheaper tier 1 public school. To that end, I petition the admissions committee to offer me a seat in this fall's class, but completely understand if any available seats are offered to others who seem more likely to matriculate.

Cheers,
two0seven

[CJE]

Similar situation to you twozerosevon as I was held and then waitlisted today via email. I am seriously bummed as I already live in Portland and would love to stay here, and I thought I could get an acceptance as I applied early and my numbers lie well within L+C's acceptance ranges. Guess my next move is to put money down on my second choice school to hold a spot and wait a bit on the waitlist...

[ms1987]

Just withdrew my application (and scholarship) today. I hope it helps someone out. Good luck!!

[twozeroseven]

Similar situation to you twozerosevon as I was held and then waitlisted today via email. I am seriously bummed as I already live in Portland and would love to stay here, and I thought I could get an acceptance as I applied early and my numbers lie well within L+C's acceptance ranges. Guess my next move is to put money down on my second choice school to hold a spot and wait a bit on the waitlist...

This is a bummer. I mean, I didn't expect more out of the 'hold' than I got, but was hopeful. My numbers gave me above 50% chance of admission, and i have good (although not outstanding) softs. I wonder how many people were in the hold pile? My assumption is that they got better yield than they expected from their first group of admits so they don't have as many open seats ... otherwise they just would have waitlisted us in the first place. Good luck on the waitlist man. There is still a good chance, especially since you are local and maybe you can manage a 'soft' interview by visiting the school once or twice in person?

[CJE]

This is a bummer. I mean, I didn't expect more out of the 'hold' than I got, but was hopeful. My numbers gave me above 50% chance of admission, and i have good (although not outstanding) softs. I wonder how many people were in the hold pile? My assumption is that they got better yield than they expected from their first group of admits so they don't have as many open seats ... otherwise they just would have waitlisted us in the first place. Good luck on the waitlist man. There is still a good chance, especially since you are local and maybe you can manage a 'soft' interview by visiting the school once or twice in person?

Thanks haha and same to you, sorry you weren't accepted either!

I was thinking the same as you, that their early acceptance pool was higher than they anticipated. I've talked to a lot of current students there, and they have said that l+c has had 2 years in a row of more students accepting offers than the admissions office expected to accept, so perhaps this year they are giving out fewer offers early on. I am planning on calling the admissions office again and seeing if an interview is possible, and am already drafting a LOCI

[IHaveLawyers]

Waitlisted via email today for the PT program. I am really excited bc my numbers are below their median. Do I have a shot?

[tcsky]

sigh, held since mid january only to be waitlisted yesterday...

[hope11]

Got in (though I didn't think I stood a chance, pm if you want my numbers) and now have so many questions I'd love answers to!

How's L&C's reputation in Oregon? I'm from San Francisco and have never been up there.

For those who have visited the campus, how was the feel? Warm and friendly? Stuffy? Intimidating?

Thanks

FYI, they're giving me NO money so if I'm gonna pay sticker price, I need all the help I can get in making a decision.

You really, really need to read the entire threat...the job prospects are horrible and I'm accepted too.

[deja]

You really, really need to read the entire threat...the job prospects are horrible and I'm accepted too.

From someone with the screen name 'hope11' -- I like it.

[lsatdalek]

I called yesterday and was told that at the moment they stopped admitting people. My application doesn't have a final decision but the committee isn't meeting again till next week anyways. I'm not too hopeful for my application at this point, I have low numbers anyways.

[Splintor49]

I posted this earlier - I got accepted... for next year! Yep - 2012 because their spots were full. So I'm waitlisted for this fall. I'm hoping that means I'm at the top of the waitlist... but you never know!

[Capitol hillbilly]

Got in (though I didn't think I stood a chance, pm if you want my numbers) and now have so many questions I'd love answers to!

How's L&C's reputation in Oregon? I'm from San Francisco and have never been up there.

For those who have visited the campus, how was the feel? Warm and friendly? Stuffy? Intimidating?

Thanks

FYI, they're giving me NO money so if I'm gonna pay sticker price, I need all the help I can get in making a decision.

You really, really need to read the entire threat...the job prospects are horrible and I'm accepted too.

After finally browsing through the invaluable 2009 employment data graph thread-
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150681
It's nice to see that L&C grads aren't doing tooooo badly.. at least in terms of getting jobs. Looks like: most get jobs, none get NLJ250, very few make much money (>100k), ....but most get jobs. More than you can say for the other schools I'm waiting on: USF and SCU (23% and 26% respectively able to find full time legal jobs 9 months out- holy mackerel that sucks!)
Portland is looking a lot better after checking out that data. What does everyone else think of that employment data thread? I think dude deserves the Nobel.

[CJE]

I posted this earlier - I got accepted... for next year! Yep - 2012 because their spots were full. So I'm waitlisted for this fall. I'm hoping that means I'm at the top of the waitlist... but you never know!

Yeah I read your earlier comment, not sure what to make of it haha, I've not heard of this happening unless someone gets a medical deferment.

I also called the admissions and they informed me that there is no ranking on the wait list...seems strange. I guess that means they accept people from the list according to their hard scores, and go top to bottom?

[Tyler Durden]

I posted this earlier - I got accepted... for next year! Yep - 2012 because their spots were full. So I'm waitlisted for this fall. I'm hoping that means I'm at the top of the waitlist... but you never know!

Yeah I read your earlier comment, not sure what to make of it haha, I've not heard of this happening unless someone gets a medical deferment.

I also called the admissions and they informed me that there is no ranking on the wait list...seems strange. I guess that means they accept people from the list according to their hard scores, and go top to bottom?

I'm update to complete as of today. Honestly, I would be more than happy to be held, waitlisted for this fall, yet accepted for next fall. At least then it's a sure thing and I have a year to keep working and look for a place/job up in Portland.

[descartesb4thehorse]

Complete 3/16, updated 3/31, and letter today. I feel like I'm a fairly strong candidate so I'm assuming they're being very honest by telling you that the acceptance for 2012/waitlist for this fall is legitimately because they overenrolled early on. This is actually perfect for me since I decided to take the year off anyway. I'm going to email them to tell them to withdraw my name from the waitlist for this year but that I will definitely be considering my acceptance for next year. Saves me at least one application fee!

Good luck to everyone else, especially those hoping to go this fall.

[CJE]

Complete 3/16, updated 3/31, and letter today. I feel like I'm a fairly strong candidate so I'm assuming they're being very honest by telling you that the acceptance for 2012/waitlist for this fall is legitimately because they overenrolled early on. This is actually perfect for me since I decided to take the year off anyway. I'm going to email them to tell them to withdraw my name from the waitlist for this year but that I will definitely be considering my acceptance for next year. Saves me at least one application fee!

Good luck to everyone else, especially those hoping to go this fall.

I have no doubt that they overenrolled, and that the waitlist is legitimate, I am just curious how they pick people off of the waitlist to be accepted, especially if there is no ranking...

[descartesb4thehorse]

Complete 3/16, updated 3/31, and letter today. I feel like I'm a fairly strong candidate so I'm assuming they're being very honest by telling you that the acceptance for 2012/waitlist for this fall is legitimately because they overenrolled early on. This is actually perfect for me since I decided to take the year off anyway. I'm going to email them to tell them to withdraw my name from the waitlist for this year but that I will definitely be considering my acceptance for next year. Saves me at least one application fee!

Good luck to everyone else, especially those hoping to go this fall.

I have no doubt that they overenrolled, and that the waitlist is legitimate, I am just curious how they pick people off of the waitlist to be accepted, especially if there is no ranking...

My guess is, especially since they're still admitting people to the waitlist and probably will be for a few more weeks, they'll sort of have the whole crop there when deposit time comes and they know how many they get to offer. It wouldn't make sense to rank it now without deciding on all the applications. Such as, a spot opens up, and they look at a good candidate from 12/01 and a great candidate from 2/25 and they'll probably give it to the later candidate? So, in this sense, they're able to make decisions independent of application dates which is something no law school really does during the first round of decisions. If that makes sense? Hah.