In at Berkeley! Forum

[Marshall Eriksen]

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[Kronk]

Last year I would've thought the same thing as all of you. I was a little sad to see the drop from 6 to 7 even. Now I don't care at all. Mainly because law firms don't care.

At all.

So you cared when you were a 0L like all of us here, but you stopped caring after starting law school? That's actually very reassuring in a way, knowing the actual journey to a career in law is not so ranking based. I suppose the rankings are really just for 0Ls anyway.

So what's the biggest reason for the drop? I have not had the time to dwell on the methodology and such.

It goes both ways. I have gone into interviews for summer jobs against Stanford, Harvard, UC Hastings people, etc. I don't feel a real advantage or disadvantage over any of them. Once you get the interview, I don't know how much it matters. I can tell you that I doubt any employers care about a few places in the rankings (I'd go as far as to say we could be 6th or 13th, it wouldn't matter), none of the students talked about it, etc.

But yes, I was worried last year. I almost let my obsession with the rankings put me at Chicago or NYU. I am extremely glad I went to ASD, got a little wiser, and chose Berkeley (although Chicago is a fine place too).

I don't know why the drop. Our 25th LSAT seems pretty low. But even that is BS. Everyone here is pretty smart, and if not, you'll be blown away by what they've done. Most of our class that got in with lower numbers are Fulbright Scholars or something crazy like that. I don't blame Berkeley for giving up a few LSAT points for

I don't trust USNWR employment statistics at all. They aren't even legal employment. Not to mention they are unverifiable. The margin of error on those numbers has to be like plus or minus 20%. Anyway, I wouldn't have even known / checked where Berkeley was in the rankings, but one of my classmates had a facebook status making a joke about it. Otherwise I would've been blissfully ignorant.

[bilbobaggins]

Anyone who thinks these differences are meaningful should probably follow their hearts and go to the now "better" schools. (But remember, when the rankings change again next year so US News can sell more shit, you might be at a "worse" school).

[powerlawyer06]

I am just really only worried about the negative trend.

However looking at the 100 point scale really put this move into perspective.

I will share with you guys one other thing that made me feel better. I was so worried this morning that I called my one Big Law contact (my uncle) in NYC. He is a Boalt Alum. Our conversation went something like this.

Me: Did you see the rankings?
Uncle: What rankings?
Me: The new US NEWS & World Report ranking of law schools came out. Berkeley dropped two spots!
Uncle: Are they still in the top ten?
Me: Yes but they went from tied at 7th to tied at 9th.
Uncle: Isn’t that only one spot?
Me: Sort of….
Uncle: You know no one cares about those rankings once you leave school?
Me: I know but what if Berkeley keeps falling until…
Uncle: Nothing will happen. Trust me, the powers that be make sure the same prestigious schools get the same rankings and the same jobs year after year. When I graduated from there it was ranked 13th.
Me: Okay but I don’t know if I am making the right decision.
Uncle: Calm down, all of your choices are fine schools but you need to go where you are comfortable......
(Then we started talking about family stuff)

He may be slightly biased but it makes me feel better to know that lawyers don't really care about rankings.

[Kronk]

I think it's worth noting that Berkeley has generally fluctuated a bit. It has been ranked as high as 6th and as low as 12-13th. Same with almost every other school outside of HYSC. It's only a "negative trend" if is constantly for like 15 years. Otherwise it's just the pendulum swinging.

[askyemcdonald]

I also spoke with a close family friend in Big Law and he said Berkeley was an great choice and the rankings really don't mean much if you are in top 10.

[r6_philly]

Anyone who thinks these differences are meaningful should probably follow their hearts and go to the now "better" schools. (But remember, when the rankings change again next year so US News can sell more shit, you might be at a "worse" school).

Having had a career in data crunching, I wouldn't go as far as there is no meaningful differences. However I am more interested in the data than the rankings. Understanding the underlying data will allow anyone to not be blinded by the "dumbed-down version" that is the rankings.

[powerlawyer06]

I also spoke with a close family friend in Big Law and he said Berkeley was an great choice and the rankings really don't mean much if you are in top 10.

LOL, I guess we all did the same thing this morning.

[sarahh]

I also spoke with a close family friend in Big Law and he said Berkeley was an great choice and the rankings really don't mean much if you are in top 10.

Yes, several lawyers have told me this. And let us not forget, Berkeley is still by far the second best school on the west coast. I am not saying everything is sunshine and kittens (the state of California's economy and the tuition increases/budget cuts are a bit worrisome), but the drop from 7 to 9 does not mean anything.

[r6_philly]

It goes both ways. I have gone into interviews for summer jobs against Stanford, Harvard, UC Hastings people, etc. I don't feel a real advantage or disadvantage over any of them. Once you get the interview, I don't know how much it matters. I can tell you that I doubt any employers care about a few places in the rankings (I'd go as far as to say we could be 6th or 13th, it wouldn't matter), none of the students talked about it, etc.

But yes, I was worried last year. I almost let my obsession with the rankings put me at Chicago or NYU. I am extremely glad I went to ASD, got a little wiser, and chose Berkeley (although Chicago is a fine place too).

I don't know why the drop. Our 25th LSAT seems pretty low. But even that is BS. Everyone here is pretty smart, and if not, you'll be blown away by what they've done. Most of our class that got in with lower numbers are Fulbright Scholars or something crazy like that. I don't blame Berkeley for giving up a few LSAT points for

I don't trust USNWR employment statistics at all. They aren't even legal employment. Not to mention they are unverifiable. The margin of error on those numbers has to be like plus or minus 20%. Anyway, I wouldn't have even known / checked where Berkeley was in the rankings, but one of my classmates had a facebook status making a joke about it. Otherwise I would've been blissfully ignorant.

Thanks for the clarification!

The indicators are intriguing, but I doubt the rankings will affect my employability and my chances to succeed. It's still fun to compare the schools without doing your own research though.

[IzziesGal]

The rankings really are meaningless once you start attending school/practicing. I didn't even know the rankings came out until I logged into this board today!

Most lawyers don't care about USNWR rankings, just like they don't care about Vault rankings (hiring committees know Berkeley, Michigan, NYU, etc. are good schools - I doubt they get down to the nitty gritty and examine which school is ranked where). And 2Ls with job offers certainly don't care about whether Berkeley dropped one or two spots (with ties, etc.). They fluctuate so frequently that it doesn't matter lol. I remember being a 0L and obsessed with the rankings - and then being a 1L and being obsessed with the Vault rankings - now, I don't care for either. I don't even pay attention to them. At a certain point, you just stop caring about that stuff! I promise.

[aesis]

I would also like to echo the concern over the negative trend -- 3 spots over 2 years.

Despite the rapid increase in tuition, Berkeley has fallen behind its peers ranking-wise. What's up with that? Dean Edley has made it clear that his goals are to ensure Berkeley remains a "Top 10 law school." But now, Boalt is at the cusp of falling out of the T10.

Further, though many of us (me!!!) are eager to swallow up the "Don't panic" from current Boalties, there are still others who were on the fence about Boalt in the first place. Who knows how many 0Ls will be pushed away by the drop this year, in addition to Boalt's expensive! out of state tuition. What will that mean for Boalt's medians this year? Boalt's lack of resources to bid for competitive applicants also raises concerns.

People say the rankings fluctuate often and predictably, but this is perhaps the first time the UC system/Boalt has had to dramatically alter its financial structure to accommodate the state budget cuts to education.

I'm just saying Boalt is starting to look like a tenuous investment versus CLS/NYU/Chicago for those who were considering it.

[bilbobaggins]

I would also like to echo the concern over the negative trend -- 3 spots over 2 years.

Despite the rapid increase in tuition, Berkeley has fallen behind its peers ranking-wise. What's up with that? Dean Edley has made it clear that his goals are to ensure Berkeley remains a "Top 10 law school." But now, Boalt is at the cusp of falling out of the T10.

Further, though many of us (me!!!) are eager to swallow up the "Don't panic" from current Boalties, there are still others who were on the fence about Boalt in the first place. Who knows how many 0Ls will be pushed away by the drop this year, in addition to Boalt's expensive! out of state tuition. What will that mean for Boalt's medians this year? Boalt's lack of resources to bid for competitive applicants also raises concerns.

People say the rankings fluctuate often and predictably, but this is perhaps the first time the UC system/Boalt has had to dramatically alter its financial structure to accommodate the state budget cuts to education.

I'm just saying Boalt is starting to look like a tenuous investment versus CLS/NYU/Chicago for those who were considering it.

Was Michigan on the cusp of falling out of the rankings last year? I mean, you probably don't know if you weren't paying attention to the whole law school thing last year. Tiny differences in the US News rankings is probably the WORST reason to choose one school over the other. There's no difference between any of these schools in reality. There is very little employment difference between the schools you've mentioned and Boalt. Boalt doesn't have a lack of resources, as you put it, because tuition is rising. They continue to increase our operating budget (which is hy tuition is rising).

All of these schools are fantastic. You should go where you think you'll do best and where you think your needs will be catered to. You're intelligent, you did well on the LSAT, so try not to let a for profit magazine's minutiea based differentiation alter a huge life decision. What will you do when it changes again next year?

[Kronk]

I would also like to echo the concern over the negative trend -- 3 spots over 2 years.

Despite the rapid increase in tuition, Berkeley has fallen behind its peers ranking-wise. What's up with that? Dean Edley has made it clear that his goals are to ensure Berkeley remains a "Top 10 law school." But now, Boalt is at the cusp of falling out of the T10.

Further, though many of us (me!!!) are eager to swallow up the "Don't panic" from current Boalties, there are still others who were on the fence about Boalt in the first place. Who knows how many 0Ls will be pushed away by the drop this year, in addition to Boalt's expensive! out of state tuition. What will that mean for Boalt's medians this year? Boalt's lack of resources to bid for competitive applicants also raises concerns.

People say the rankings fluctuate often and predictably, but this is perhaps the first time the UC system/Boalt has had to dramatically alter its financial structure to accommodate the state budget cuts to education.

I'm just saying Boalt is starting to look like a tenuous investment versus CLS/NYU/Chicago for those who were considering it.

Honestly I don't care where you go and will not try to convince you to come to Boalt. I just think if you like the Bay Area more than NYC and Chicago, or like the atmosphere here, or the student body, you will regret basing your decision off these rankings once you begin your 1L year. (or, for that matter, the several thousand dollar a year difference between UCB out of state and UChi, NYU, or CLS)

[sarahh]

I just got an e-mail saying that I am not getting the Matching Scholarship. I guess this makes the decision easier. I sent an e-mail saying I am no longer coming to the ASW. I can't bring myself to decline the offer of admission yet.

[tipler4213]

I just got an e-mail saying that I am not getting the Matching Scholarship. I guess this makes the decision easier. I sent an e-mail saying I am no longer coming to the ASW. I can't bring myself to decline the offer of admission yet.

Who were you trying to get them to match?

[aesis]

After reading a bit more I think my concerns are a bit unwarranted, so it's nice to hear the retorts that confirm that sentiment. And I just got a call from a Boaltie asking if I had any questions! <3

[sarahh]

I just got an e-mail saying that I am not getting the Matching Scholarship. I guess this makes the decision easier. I sent an e-mail saying I am no longer coming to the ASW. I can't bring myself to decline the offer of admission yet.

Who were you trying to get them to match?

Michigan

[tipler4213]

I just got an e-mail saying that I am not getting the Matching Scholarship. I guess this makes the decision easier. I sent an e-mail saying I am no longer coming to the ASW. I can't bring myself to decline the offer of admission yet.

Who were you trying to get them to match?

Michigan

See now that scares me.

[r6_philly]

I just got an e-mail saying that I am not getting the Matching Scholarship. I guess this makes the decision easier. I sent an e-mail saying I am no longer coming to the ASW. I can't bring myself to decline the offer of admission yet.

Who were you trying to get them to match?

Michigan

Was it a large award? Sorry for prying, just thirsty for every bit of info regarding $.

[Kronk]

At least our year, the matching scholarships were fairly hard to come by unless you were a URM. I didn't get anything matched and had large scholarships at UVa and UChi.

[clone22]

I just got an e-mail saying that I am not getting the Matching Scholarship. I guess this makes the decision easier. I sent an e-mail saying I am no longer coming to the ASW. I can't bring myself to decline the offer of admission yet.

you showed them

i kid, i'm just jealous

[askyemcdonald]

Just submitted my supplemental scholarship essay. About how long til people hear back?

[r6_philly]

At least our year, the matching scholarships were fairly hard to come by unless you were a URM. I didn't get anything matched and had large scholarships at UVa and UChi.

This would be sad news indeed.

[sarahh]

I just got an e-mail saying that I am not getting the Matching Scholarship. I guess this makes the decision easier. I sent an e-mail saying I am no longer coming to the ASW. I can't bring myself to decline the offer of admission yet.

Who were you trying to get them to match?

Michigan

Was it a large award? Sorry for prying, just thirsty for every bit of info regarding $.

Yes, it was the Darrow. I am not surprised but am sad that I cannot stay in the area. I was already a little down about not getting an RTK invite. I know I have good options though.