Harvard 2011 Applicants Forum

[r6_philly]

Retakes don't get into harvard. hth

That's not true, if they average my 180 they get 175.

It's not about averaging, its about them not liking retakers. It has nothing to do with averaging. IMO, averaging is a myth. They don't look at you in context of your average LSAT score.

If that's the truth, what is 2 more questions that I could have guessed right when viewed with all my other accomplishments? that's 1/25 odds that I could have scored 172 instead of 170 (marginal odds).

[CapHillLove]

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[WestOfTheRest]

Retakes don't get into harvard. hth

That's not true, if they average my 180 they get 175.

It's not about averaging, its about them not liking retakers. It has nothing to do with averaging. IMO, averaging is a myth. They don't look at you in context of your average LSAT score.

If that's the truth, what is 2 more questions that I could have guessed right when viewed with all my other accomplishments? that's 1/25 odds that I could have scored 172 instead of 170 (marginal odds).

Hey, it's just what I have seen. Retakers aren't treated at like their highest nor their average. It's a lot more random once you retake at harvard.

[WestOfTheRest]

My LSAT is above those medians but my GPA definitely isn't! Is there hope for me?

Hope, but probably not early in the cycle.

Even if my lsat is pretty far above those medians?

Stupid French.

Are you above the 75 th? How low is your gpa.

[Ragged]

LSN has a couple of retakers who got into HLS I believe. And we had some retakers on here last cycle who got in also, so the above statement about retakers not getting in HLS is false.

I'm a retaker with a sub median (barely) GPA and above median high LSAT (not average). Last cycle I got held then rejected sans JR1, we'll see if this cycle I can get further in the process.

r6philly, I'm surprised you didn't retake before this cycle. With your GPA and HLS or bust mentality retaking should have been a no brainer decision. Did something prevent you from doing so?

[CapHillLove]

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[r6_philly]

LSN has a couple of retakers who got into HLS I believe. And we had some retakers on here last cycle who got in also, so the above statement about retakers not getting in HLS is false.

I'm a retaker with a sub median (barely) GPA and above median high LSAT (not average). Last cycle I got held then rejected sans JR1, we'll see if this cycle I can get further in the process.

r6philly, I'm surprised you didn't retake before this cycle. With your GPA and HLS or bust mentality retaking should have been a no brainer decision. Did something prevent you from doing so?

I didn't have any time to prep so I put that out of my mind. Not really HLS or bust. More like HYS (+Penn$) or bust, and 170 seem like good enough for S at least (if they like the other parts).

Seriously my understanding of where I am going with this has changed a bit since last cycle, and I just ultimately decided to not do it since I couldn't devote time to prep. I ended up starting a new job right after getting WL'ed everywhere. I will go where my numbers can take me Harvard would be nice though. One can still dream.

[incompetentia]

Looking at that, with my GPA...ugh.

[Ragged]

Looking at that, with my GPA...ugh.

Just retake it.

[incompetentia]

Looking at that, with my GPA...ugh.

Just retake it.

I knew it. Time to apply to Yale UG

[WestOfTheRest]

LSN has a couple of retakers who got into HLS I believe. And we had some retakers on here last cycle who got in also, so the above statement about retakers not getting in HLS is false.

I'm a retaker with a sub median (barely) GPA and above median high LSAT (not average). Last cycle I got held then rejected sans JR1, we'll see if this cycle I can get further in the process.

r6philly, I'm surprised you didn't retake before this cycle. With your GPA and HLS or bust mentality retaking should have been a no brainer decision. Did something prevent you from doing so?

It wasn't an absolute statement. Obviously people get in w/ retakes. It's just that they are disadvantaged.

[Knock]

LSN has a couple of retakers who got into HLS I believe. And we had some retakers on here last cycle who got in also, so the above statement about retakers not getting in HLS is false.

I'm a retaker with a sub median (barely) GPA and above median high LSAT (not average). Last cycle I got held then rejected sans JR1, we'll see if this cycle I can get further in the process.

r6philly, I'm surprised you didn't retake before this cycle. With your GPA and HLS or bust mentality retaking should have been a no brainer decision. Did something prevent you from doing so?

It wasn't an absolute statement. Obviously people get in w/ retakes. It's just that they are disadvantaged.

What about cancels?

[rundoxierun]

What about cancels?

TCR is none of us know anything about the Harvard treatment of retakes/cancels of any sort. Only thing I can tell you guys for sure is they definitely do, in fact, want an addendum for retakes.

[WestOfTheRest]

LSN has a couple of retakers who got into HLS I believe. And we had some retakers on here last cycle who got in also, so the above statement about retakers not getting in HLS is false.

I'm a retaker with a sub median (barely) GPA and above median high LSAT (not average). Last cycle I got held then rejected sans JR1, we'll see if this cycle I can get further in the process.

r6philly, I'm surprised you didn't retake before this cycle. With your GPA and HLS or bust mentality retaking should have been a no brainer decision. Did something prevent you from doing so?

It wasn't an absolute statement. Obviously people get in w/ retakes. It's just that they are disadvantaged.

What about cancels?

No idea, probably doesnt hurt. But they're not as widely reported.

[Knock]

What about cancels?

TCR is none of us know anything about the Harvard treatment of retakes/cancels of any sort. Only thing I can tell you guys for sure is they definitely do, in fact, want an addendum for retakes.

[haver1234]

Not sure if this adds anything but anecdotal evidence (as if there's any other kind regarding this sort of thing at this point) but I had my JR1 this week. My LSAT is above the 75 but my GPA is below the 25th for all accepted applicants.

Either way. I rambled. It went. Now I wait.

[Knock]

Not sure if this adds anything but anecdotal evidence (as if there's any other kind regarding this sort of thing at this point) but I had my JR1 this week. My LSAT is above the 75 but my GPA is below the 25th for all accepted applicants.

Either way. I rambled. It went. Now I wait.

Congrats on getting a JR1. I feel like you broke the pattern for JR1 invitations, unless you are an URM?

[Ragged]

What about cancels?

TCR is none of us know anything about the Harvard treatment of retakes/cancels of any sort. Only thing I can tell you guys for sure is they definitely do, in fact, want an addendum for retakes.

What if my scores are within 6 points and I don't really have a good reason for a higher score besides the fact that I studied harder? I could bang on out right now about how I feel that my higher score better reflects my potential and all that good stuff but is that what they really want to hear?

[haver1234]

Not sure if this adds anything but anecdotal evidence (as if there's any other kind regarding this sort of thing at this point) but I had my JR1 this week. My LSAT is above the 75 but my GPA is below the 25th for all accepted applicants.

Either way. I rambled. It went. Now I wait.

Congrats on getting a JR1. I feel like you broke the pattern for JR1 invitations, unless you are an URM?

No. I'm not. Interesting/semi-prestigious softs. Also, my major in college was not graded, which may skew my GPA number ... letters of rec/evaluations might have made up the difference.

[rundoxierun]

...

[CapHillLove]

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[kazu]

TCR is none of us know anything about the Harvard treatment of retakes/cancels of any sort. Only thing I can tell you guys for sure is they definitely do, in fact, want an addendum for retakes.

What if my scores are within 6 points and I don't really have a good reason for a higher score besides the fact that I studied harder? I could bang on out right now about how I feel that my higher score better reflects my potential and all that good stuff but is that what they really want to hear?

This. tkgrrett not to doubt you but was it more of a "let's here more about your app." question or "why the hell did you not include this in your app " kind of thing?

[kazu]

Alright, well I took it for the team and did some LSN data mining. (Yes, I acknowledge that all this data is self-reported and that LSN is likely an unrepresentative sample of the entire applicant pool. Take it all with a grain of salt.)

The total applications on LSN for HLS represent about 10% of HLS's total applicant pool.

There were 142 admits, which represent 17% of the total admits to Harvard. There were 16 people who got in off of the WL. If you add those to the regular admits (not sure if WL, A are included in the # of offers ABA data or not), that represents 19% of the total admits.

The median and average LSAT for the regular admits were 175 and 174.4. The median and average GPA for regular admits were 3.93 and 3.91. The median and average LSAT for WL admits were 172 and 171.88. The median and average GPA for WL admits were 3.89 and 3.85.

Now for JR1 stats. There was less data here, given that people had to supply this data beyond just choosing an application status. I have not looked at all the rejection data yet, but I assume the incidence of JR1 then rejection is low (I could be wrong, though).

I counted a total of 148 JR1s. There were 61 people who were accepted in the first batch of acceptances. There were four people who noted that they had a pre-Thanksgiving JR1 and subsequently got waitlisted but not accepted.

There were 76 regular admits that got in post-Thanksgiving, 3 admits off the WL that got in who previously had JR1s, and 4 people with post-Thanksgiving JR1s that got waitlisted and were not admitted. There were some people who had pre-Thanksgiving JR1s, but got accepted in a later batch, though I don't have the specific numbers at the moment.

The median and average LSAT of the 61 admits in the first batch were 175 and 174.84. The median and average GPA of the 61 admits in the first batch were 3.94 and 3.91.

The median and average LSAT of the 76 regular admits in later batches were 175 and 173.83. The median and average GPA of the 76 regular admits in later batches were 3.92 and 3.9.

So the first batch admits had slightly higher stats than those in later batches, but not significantly. The regular admits overall had better stats than those who got in off of the WL, unsurprisingly. The percentage of people who had JR1s who later received JR2s is extremely high for both pre-Thanksgiving and post-Thanksgiving JR1s (around 94%). There were only 8 people total who reported JR1s but no JR2s. If only that were representative!

I hope that some of you find this interesting. Enjoy!

Cala Lily this is great, thanks for sharing

[rundoxierun]

TCR is none of us know anything about the Harvard treatment of retakes/cancels of any sort. Only thing I can tell you guys for sure is they definitely do, in fact, want an addendum for retakes.

What if my scores are within 6 points and I don't really have a good reason for a higher score besides the fact that I studied harder? I could bang on out right now about how I feel that my higher score better reflects my potential and all that good stuff but is that what they really want to hear?

This. tkgrrett not to doubt you but was it more of a "let's here more about your app." question or "why the hell did you not include this in your app " kind of thing?

Well I should rephrase it.. not that they necessarily definitely want an addendum but he asked for an explanation. Basically he just asked me what happened. It was more than quite a bit more than a 6 point difference though so not sure how to consider that.

[catsparka]

AHHHH I just submitted my application through LSAC. Now it's time for obsessive PDF-checking to see if I discover any typos post-submission.