Stanford 2010!!! Forum

[ndnlawdc]

Just let me know if I'm raining on the admit parade.

I think SLS is, for many if not most, the best all-around law school package. I'm unashamedly trying to sell it, but I want folks to get a real picture of the place too.

[crackberry]

Just let me know if I'm raining on the admit parade.

I think SLS is, for many if not most, the best all-around law school package. I'm unashamedly trying to sell it, but I want folks to get a real picture of the place too.

It'd take a lot more than that to rain on my parade. Your advice/opinion is always solid and much appreciated.

[SanBun]

Hey everyone, my first post in the Stanford thread, YAY!

So I was wondering, I went complete 11/12, when can I expect to hear back? Do they e-mail or mail the decision? DAMN, I hate that they don't have a status checker

AND: MERRY CHRISTMAS!
spreading the joy on TLS

[crackberry]

Hey everyone, my first post in the Stanford thread, YAY!

So I was wondering, I went complete 11/12, when can I expect to hear back? Do they e-mail or mail the decision? DAMN, I hate that they don't have a status checker

AND: MERRY CHRISTMAS!
spreading the joy on TLS

Admits receive a phone call from Dean Faye Deal followed shortly thereafter by a snail mail packet (with a tee shirt!). I don't know how they do WLs or rejections - probably snail mail.

There's no way of knowing when you'll hear back. A few people - including at least one who went complete at the same time or shortly after you - have already been admitted, but Stanford (like Yale) is notorious for often taking FOREVER to reach a decision.

[Dignan]

Just let me know if I'm raining on the admit parade.

Unfortunately, I'm not even part of the parade. I'm waiting patiently on the sidelines, hoping that I'll get to march.

In any event, I don't think that you're raining on anyone's parade. I really appreciate getting some insight from a current SLS student. Although the quality of the 0L commentary on this thread seems higher than the TLS norm, it's great to get contributions from an actual SLS 1L.

I think SLS is, for many if not most, the best all-around law school package. I'm unashamedly trying to sell it, but I want folks to get a real picture of the place too.

I apologize if you've explained this before, but why would you say that Stanford is a better all-around law school package than, say, Yale?

[CardinalRules]

Or, say, Harvard?

[ndnlawdc]

Vs. Yale: I didn't get this choice. I was WLed at Yale during the SLS admit weekend, and was so wowed by SLS that I decided that I was coming, so I withdrew from Yale. So my impressions come from "lore" about Yale, a number of friends at YLS, and friends at SLS who turned down YLS for SLS.

The first and most lasting impression about SLS vs. YLS is that SLS is more of a law school. A friend of mine at YLS (who has done very well there) said that every SLS transfer to YLS knows the law far better than the average 2L at Yale. SLS students are more interested in being lawyers than students at YLS. Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of policy discussions in class, policy coverage on the exams, and policy wonks among the students. But there's a solid law/litigation focus to most things that I think may be missing from YLS.

Also, re: the "whole package." Two words: New Haven. I'd be the first to criticize Palo Alto as a place to live. But if you're going to live in a boring suburb, I think Palo Alto is far superior to New Haven, and has better things close by than New Haven. Furthermore, the weather in Palo Alto is just awesome. I'm writing from Christmas in snowy, bitterly cold Wisconsin. I can't wait to get home tomorrow. Palo Alto is also, in and of itself, a major legal market. I received regular exposure to partners at many of the major law firms during informal lunches my first quarter at SLS. I'd bet that's not the case at YLS or even HLS.

Vs. Harvard: I'll fully admit that it's harder to draw distinctions between YLS and SLS. Yale has that little bit of extra prestige, along with the Ivy name, and many of the benefits of SLS (re: small class size). HLS and SLS are two very different law schools, and it's much easier to draw distinctions.

Class size: 170 is really, really different from 450. I probably know half the 1Ls by name, and almost the entire class by sight. I'm probably a bit behind most folks on this, because I'm married and somewhat (though not really) disconnected from the day-to-day social scene. But my section of 28 folks is really diverse and close-knit, and I can't imagine learning the law any other way. I think there's some segregation between the classes, but I think the chance of me knowing any 2Ls/3Ls well at HLS would be much lower. That said, if you find yourself in a minority, there will be a whole lot more of you at HLS than at SLS. I'm a Christian, I'm moderate-to-conservative, and I'm Indian. There are few of each category at SLS, and with the exception of American Indians, there are more of each at HLS.

Grading: This might not be a huge deal to many, but if SLS passed out a "low pass" my stress level would have gone through the roof during 1L fall. I know it's technically not mandatory at HLS, but rumor among the 2Ls is that more than just a few students received a LP during the year.

Learning environment: I understand HLS is way better than it used to be in this area, but the environment at SLS is actively anti-competitive and is super cooperative. I used two of my section-mates' outlines for Torts, and I sent my own Contracts outline out to my section. Gunners (of which there are few) are mocked and viewed with derision.

Professors: I'm sure if you try really hard, you can develop close relationships with professors at HLS. At SLS, it's mandatory. My small section professor had us over for gelato and bocce ball the first month of the quarter. Another professor, in one of our many office hours sessions, offered out of the blue to write me a letter of recommendation for whatever I wanted. Michael McConnell, the new rock star conservative prof, had the entire Federalist Society over to his house for dinner. There's just a lot of quality interaction with professors that I bet is lacking at HLS.

Interdisciplinary stuff: A lot more students take classes outside the law school than at HLS. I'm not sure I will (though I have my eye on a few GSB classes), but if you're looking for that it appears to be more of an encouraged thing at SLS than at HLS.

Location: Given the preferences of American society, probably a wash. In my case, I'd much rather live in Cambridge than in Palo Alto. A lot of other classmates feel differently.

I'm sure there are other factors... but I absolutely do not regret choosing SLS over HLS.

[CardinalRules]

Re the grading, doesn't Stanford have a "restricted pass?" How is this designation different from a "low pass?"

Thank you for your detailed response; it's always helpful to have inside information!

Do you have any sense of LA job opportunities for SLS (either vs. HLS or just alone)?

[ndnlawdc]

Re the grading, doesn't Stanford have a "restricted pass?" How is this different from a "low pass?"

What's different is that no one gets that grade. LP is on the "suggested" curve at HLS, and it's absent (and discouraged) at SLS. In other words, you have to try to get a RC at SLS.

[CardinalRules]

Re the grading, doesn't Stanford have a "restricted pass?" How is this different from a "low pass?"

What's different is that no one gets that grade. LP is on the "suggested" curve at HLS, and it's absent (and discouraged) at SLS. In other words, you have to try to get a RC at SLS.

Wow, what a fast answer! I really appreciate the clarification.

Do you know anything about the LA question that I mentioned in the earlier post?

[ndnlawdc]

Do you have any sense of LA job opportunities for SLS (either vs. HLS or just alone)?

Vs. HLS -- no, but I know lots of SLS students go to LA (and have no trouble doing so). One of my close 2L friends is headed to LA next summer.

[CardinalRules]

Do you have any sense of LA job opportunities for SLS (either vs. HLS or just alone)?

Vs. HLS -- no, but I know lots of SLS students go to LA (and have no trouble doing so). One of my close 2L friends is headed to LA next summer.

Your answers are quite helpful and encourage me to consider more seriously the possibility of three more years in Palo Alto. Thank you.

[protokurios]

Really helpful, thank you! Now if I could just get in...

[sayan]

Re the grading, doesn't Stanford have a "restricted pass?" How is this different from a "low pass?"

What's different is that no one gets that grade. LP is on the "suggested" curve at HLS, and it's absent (and discouraged) at SLS. In other words, you have to try to get a RC at SLS.

I would think you would have to try somewhat hard to be at the bottom 10% of your class or thereabouts at Harvard to really get that LP (I know, I know, but still). The real distinction is most likely H/P of which HLS instates that 37% maximum (IIRC). I assume there is no maximum for H grades at SLS?

[Kretzy]

First off, thanks a ton for the detailed info. It's been incredibly helpful. I've spoken to a few students at most of the schools where I've been accepted, and SLS has blown everywhere else out of the water when it comes to thoughtful, detailed answers to actual questions. Much appreciated.

I'm a Christian, I'm moderate-to-conservative, and I'm Indian. There are few of each category at SLS, and with the exception of American Indians, there are more of each at HLS.

Do you find the intellectual environment fairly open? I am sort of liberal (in the western sense, out of my gun closet/out of my bedroom sort of way), but would like to take classes from conservative profs and have a decent number of conservative students in my class. I know this is tough at most of the top law schools, but I'm wondering your opinion as a more conservative student.

Grading: This might not be a huge deal to many, but if SLS passed out a "low pass" my stress level would have gone through the roof during 1L fall. I know it's technically not mandatory at HLS, but rumor among the 2Ls is that more than just a few students received a LP during the year.

Have many 1Ls started the search for summer positions? Are there any firm opportunities, or are most working in public interest/research? How competitive are summer PI stipends?

Thanks again!

[Kretzy]

The first and most lasting impression about SLS vs. YLS is that SLS is more of a law school. A friend of mine at YLS (who has done very well there) said that every SLS transfer to YLS knows the law far better than the average 2L at Yale. SLS students are more interested in being lawyers than students at YLS. Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of policy discussions in class, policy coverage on the exams, and policy wonks among the students. But there's a solid law/litigation focus to most things that I think may be missing from YLS.

Also....people transfer from SLS to YLS?

[CardinalRules]

The first and most lasting impression about SLS vs. YLS is that SLS is more of a law school. A friend of mine at YLS (who has done very well there) said that every SLS transfer to YLS knows the law far better than the average 2L at Yale. SLS students are more interested in being lawyers than students at YLS. Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of policy discussions in class, policy coverage on the exams, and policy wonks among the students. But there's a solid law/litigation focus to most things that I think may be missing from YLS.

Also....people transfer from SLS to YLS?

Das ist Die Kredittet Respaunz.

Also, thanks for the 37% figure; this discussion has been most illuminating.

[crackberry]

I believe at SLS, there is a 30/70 breakdown of H:P in every class. I could be wrong about that, and if I am, ndnlaw should correct me.

I've also heard HLS is getting rid of the "low pass" next year (this year?) and will thus become about 35/65 H:P per class.

So they're basically the same if I understand things correctly.

[CardinalRules]

I believe at SLS, there is a 30/70 breakdown of H:P in every class. I could be wrong about that, and if I am, ndnlaw should correct me.

I've also heard HLS is getting rid of the "low pass" next year (this year?) and will thus become about 35/65 H:P per class.

So they're basically the same if I understand things correctly.

Do you have a link or other evidence to confirm?

[sayan]

I believe at SLS, there is a 30/70 breakdown of H:P in every class. I could be wrong about that, and if I am, ndnlaw should correct me.

I've also heard HLS is getting rid of the "low pass" next year (this year?) and will thus become about 35/65 H:P per class.

So they're basically the same if I understand things correctly.

Do you have a link or other evidence to confirm?

It was not eliminated completely but apparently the ~10% guideline for LP is discretionary. In fact, there seem to only be a de facto curve for HP; apparently the ~37% guideline is not mandatory either but seems to consistently appear according to student reports.

--LinkRemoved--

[CardinalRules]

I believe at SLS, there is a 30/70 breakdown of H:P in every class. I could be wrong about that, and if I am, ndnlaw should correct me.

I've also heard HLS is getting rid of the "low pass" next year (this year?) and will thus become about 35/65 H:P per class.

So they're basically the same if I understand things correctly.

Do you have a link or other evidence to confirm?

It was not eliminated completely but apparently the ~10% guideline for LP is discretionary. In fact, there seem to only be a de facto curve for HP; apparently the ~37% guideline is not mandatory either but seems to consistently appear according to student reports.

--LinkRemoved--

Good article; thanks.

[crackberry]

Yeah sorry "getting rid of" was a poor choice of words. Rather, they are changing their system to mirror Stanford's, where the equivalent ("restricted credit" at SLS, "low pass" at HLS) is rarely, if ever, given out.

Apparently, you have to try pretty hard to get an RC or LP now, and many/most classes just don't have any of them.

What I have heard though - and honestly I don't remember where I heard this and it's possible it was from ndnlaw, in which case I'll feel pretty stupid reposting the same thing in this thread to which he has contributed so much - is that while 30 percent of grades at SLS are Honors, these are often concentrated in less than 30 percent of the students. In other words, while the mean number of Honors grades each student would receive in their 1L first quarter would be somewhere between 1 and 2, the mode is 0. To try to make that clearer because I'm confusing even myself: a fraction of students at the very top will get 4 Hs and 1 P or 5 Hs and 0 Ps in a quarter and many will get 0 Hs and 5 Ps, but the average will break down to 30 percent Hs in every class and 70 percent Ps. Naturally, those folks nabbing 4 or 5 Hs every quarter are the ones at the very top of the class. Everyone else is grouped elsewhere. Thus, there is no "median," but there is a very discernible difference between the "top" and "the rest." I'd imagine the same sort of thing happens at HLS.

From what I can tell, the grading systems at SLS and HLS are now essentially the same.

[ndnlawdc]

I would think you would have to try somewhat hard to be at the bottom 10% of your class or thereabouts at Harvard to really get that LP (I know, I know, but still). The real distinction is most likely H/P of which HLS instates that 37% maximum (IIRC). I assume there is no maximum for H grades at SLS?

No matter how accomplished you are, when you're surrounded by folks at schools like HLS and SLS you'll worry you're in the bottom 10% at times (even if you're clearly not). It would just be an added stress to an already stressful time.

SLS has a cap on H grades. I think the prof has slight discretion, but it should be 30-40% of the class (I think the suggestion is 35%).

[ndnlawdc]

Do you find the intellectual environment fairly open? I am sort of liberal (in the western sense, out of my gun closet/out of my bedroom sort of way), but would like to take classes from conservative profs and have a decent number of conservative students in my class. I know this is tough at most of the top law schools, but I'm wondering your opinion as a more conservative student.

The intellectual environment is as open as I think it's ever going to be at a school like this. I'm not socially shunned as a conservative, and the professors go out of their way to make sure the "other" side is represented in class discussion. That said, when a student sent out an email regarding starting a pro-life club at SLS, a bunch of snarky comments flew around both in my section listserv and the law school listserv. So conservatives definitely feel out of the mainstream at SLS, but I still think it's a good place. I'm sure U of C is better on this end, but probably not that much better.

Have many 1Ls started the search for summer positions? Are there any firm opportunities, or are most working in public interest/research? How competitive are summer PI stipends?

I've started the search. I sent out 40+ resumes to law firms in the first week we were allowed to, and got exactly two bites, in Oklahoma City and Milwaukee (I have family ties to each location). I get the feeling that no one is getting a firm position from sending out resumes blindly, and that no firm is interested in hiring before grades are posted. There's a spring OCI program for 1Ls after grades are posted. I'll update you on how that goes.

I think most students have started the job search by now. I've certainly applied for a number of positions, though I'm really only starting my public interest search. Summer public interest stipends aren't competitive at all. You get $5000 guaranteed. I personally confirmed with the director of the Levin Center that the stipend will (unlike HLS) stay at $5000 this year. The only hitch is that this stipend doesn't apply to judicial internships, just to government/PI.

[Maroon+Cardinal]

Hi everyone. I was admitted two years ago, deferred to teach for a couple of years (Teach For America) and I'll be enrolling next fall.