WUSTL c/o 2018 Applicants Forum

[Adam0190]

Just accepted my offer. Can't wait to meet everyone! Any recommendations on where to look for an apartment?

[sublime]

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[LET'S GET IT]

Just had my interview and I think it went well! He brought up switching my application to ED and I'm really considering it. I was going to apply ED originally but TLS talked me out of it, but I've been on/off regretting it ever since.

Scotti and other current students, is there any reason why I shouldn't ED? I want to stay in the Midwest, preferably Minnesota or Illinois. I get the whole "you might get in somewhere better", but even if I do, I don't want to pay sticker and graduate with $200k debt (+ my $40 from undergrad).

Opinions greatly appreciated. If this should go to another thread please let me know.

I would defer to Sublime, Hoos, Cuse, etc., but I'll throw in my two cents.

It's goal dependent. If you are gunning biglaw, I def. wouldn't ED. I don't know how this cycle is looking as far as number of apps and all that, but if you want biglaw, and there is even a shot of getting a decent offer from a T13 (yes I think that should be a thing), it would be prudent to let the cycle play out. I love WASHU, but frankly, if you want to end up in Minnesota I'm not even sure going to Minnesota on a full ride wouldn't be the better play. We don't place much in Minnesota, and Chicago is tough to get from here as well.

I know it's tempting to jump at the full ride, but I would hold off. If they intimated that you would be a candidate for the ED, you can ultimately end up getting a really nice offer through RD as well, I would think. Just may take a little negotiation. Your in a great spot, so congrats on that. Good luck!

[PhilippeStandingOnIt]

I keep reading about this WUSTL Early Decision scholarship on TLS, but I can't find any reference to it on the WUSTL website. Obviously it exists, because people ITT are getting it, but I'd still like to see the literature.

Can someone post a link?

[valen]

I would defer to Sublime, Hoos, Cuse, etc., but I'll throw in my two cents.

It's goal dependent. If you are gunning biglaw, I def. wouldn't ED. I don't know how this cycle is looking as far as number of apps and all that, but if you want biglaw, and there is even a shot of getting a decent offer from a T13 (yes I think that should be a thing), it would be prudent to let the cycle play out. I love WASHU, but frankly, if you want to end up in Minnesota I'm not even sure going to Minnesota on a full ride wouldn't be the better play. We don't place much in Minnesota, and Chicago is tough to get from here as well.

I know it's tempting to jump at the full ride, but I would hold off. If they intimated that you would be a candidate for the ED, you can ultimately end up getting a really nice offer through RD as well, I would think. Just may take a little negotiation. Your in a great spot, so congrats on that. Good luck!

Thanks for your opinion. I do think I have a decent chance of getting into the t14 (pretty much just NU and GULC), but I don't think I'll get much in terms of scholarships. I also really don't think minnesota will give me much because of my low GPA.

The other thing I've heard is doing 1L at wustl and then transferring up? Idk, still definitely need to think about it but I appreciate your remarks.

[chuckbass]

Personally I think I would hold off on EDing. You may get a little less than full for not EDing or something, but I think that having a little less money at WUSTL would be worth having options, especially when you should end up getting quite a lot of $$$ from WUSTL RD.

[superpatton]

I keep reading about this WUSTL Early Decision scholarship on TLS, but I can't find any reference to it on the WUSTL website. Obviously it exists, because people ITT are getting it, but I'd still like to see the literature.

Can someone post a link?

Can't post a link per se, but if you go to your application list on LSAC and look at the WUSTL instructions I believe that it is located there under instructions for their binding ED instructions section. It says that you receive a "full tuition deans fellowship award" if accepted by binding ED.

[PhilippeStandingOnIt]

I keep reading about this WUSTL Early Decision scholarship on TLS, but I can't find any reference to it on the WUSTL website. Obviously it exists, because people ITT are getting it, but I'd still like to see the literature.

Can someone post a link?

Can't post a link per se, but if you go to your application list on LSAC and look at the WUSTL instructions I believe that it is located there under instructions for their binding ED instructions section. It says that you receive a "full tuition deans fellowship award" if accepted by binding ED.

Ah. That works. Thanks!

[hoos89]

Just had my interview and I think it went well! He brought up switching my application to ED and I'm really considering it. I was going to apply ED originally but TLS talked me out of it, but I've been on/off regretting it ever since.

Scotti and other current students, is there any reason why I shouldn't ED? I want to stay in the Midwest, preferably Minnesota or Illinois. I get the whole "you might get in somewhere better", but even if I do, I don't want to pay sticker and graduate with $200k debt (+ my $40 from undergrad).

Opinions greatly appreciated. If this should go to another thread please let me know.

I'm guessing that if you could get the full-ride ED at WUSTL, then you would be able to get some money at Northwestern, and a lot of money at UMN. UMN is better for Minnesota than WUSTL. There are a few Minneapolis firms that come to OCI at WUSTL, but WUSTL only placed 7 students in Minnesota from 2010-2013 (http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/pa ... x?id=10045). Granted a lot of that is self-selection, and you would stand a better chance than average at getting something if that's what you were set on (and you're from there), but I just don't see how it could be easier to get than at Minnesota. If you don't care about big law or clerking or whatever AND you are willing to be geographically flexible, then a full-ride at WUSTL wouldn't be a bad option.

Also, it's not like you'll get $0 from WUSTL if you would have gotten the full ride from ED. You might lose some money, but I think it's worth it to have options.

Thanks for your opinion. I do think I have a decent chance of getting into the t14 (pretty much just NU and GULC), but I don't think I'll get much in terms of scholarships. I also really don't think minnesota will give me much because of my low GPA.

The other thing I've heard is doing 1L at wustl and then transferring up? Idk, still definitely need to think about it but I appreciate your remarks.

I believe Minnesota has given lots of money to splitters in the past. Don't count out $$$ from them. Definitely don't count on transferring. Also, you'd probably be better of getting a partial scholarship at NU (the most common transfer destination) than transferring from Wash U and paying sticker the last 2 years anyway.

[Fiero85]

Personally I think I would hold off on EDing. You may get a little less than full for not EDing or something, but I think that having a little less money at WUSTL would be worth having options, especially when you should end up getting quite a lot of $$$ from WUSTL RD.

+1

[DoveBodyWash]

I would defer to Sublime, Hoos, Cuse, etc., but I'll throw in my two cents.

It's goal dependent. If you are gunning biglaw, I def. wouldn't ED. I don't know how this cycle is looking as far as number of apps and all that, but if you want biglaw, and there is even a shot of getting a decent offer from a T13 (yes I think that should be a thing), it would be prudent to let the cycle play out. I love WASHU, but frankly, if you want to end up in Minnesota I'm not even sure going to Minnesota on a full ride wouldn't be the better play. We don't place much in Minnesota, and Chicago is tough to get from here as well.

I know it's tempting to jump at the full ride, but I would hold off. If they intimated that you would be a candidate for the ED, you can ultimately end up getting a really nice offer through RD as well, I would think. Just may take a little negotiation. Your in a great spot, so congrats on that. Good luck!

Thanks for your opinion. I do think I have a decent chance of getting into the t14 (pretty much just NU and GULC), but I don't think I'll get much in terms of scholarships. I also really don't think minnesota will give me much because of my low GPA.

The other thing I've heard is doing 1L at wustl and then transferring up? Idk, still definitely need to think about it but I appreciate your remarks.

1. I did 1L at WUSTL and transferred. PM me if you want to talk about this in more detail. (And no I didn't plan on transferring when i started, just worked out that way)

2. Because of your UG debt, GULC/NU would have to give you 40k scholarship just to bring you at "sticker" level. Definitely come back once you know how much scholarship you get if you're admitted. But personally I don't think going to GULC at sticker is worth it given your geographic preferences. I know nothing about the Minnesota legal market, but get in touch with people who do and find out how many SA positions are typically available every year. I would only go to Minnesota if you're 200% sure you never want to leave.

3. WashU struggles to place in Chicago, but it's more of a function of the market than the school. I know plenty of classmates here at UChicago who missed Chicago altogether (they ended up going to NYC or something). Anecdotally I've heard of students missing Chicago from NU as well.

4. Personally--and i'm sure there might be some who disagree--i think if you're 100% sure that you want Chicago BigLaw then there's a strong argument to make the investment into NU. I stuck around long enough at WashU to see which Chicago firms wanted to interview me, and i only got 1, and it wasn't a firm i was comfortable working for (they no-offered half their summers like 2 years ago). After I transferred I had callbacks/offers from firms who weren't even interested in meeting me from WashU.

The biggest hurdle you'll face trying to get Chicago from WashU is the screener selection system. WashU "shares" the major Chicago firms with several other schools in the form of a regional interviewing fair. On top of this, it's a pre-select system where the firms get to pick which candidates to meet for screeners. So for example, at WashU's Chicago Day i think Sidley Austin had 25 interview slots for candidates from 3-4 law schools that they get to pre-select. At UChicago Sidley had 85 slots for a class of 200 and it was full lottery. And that was just one firm, every Chicago firm attended our OCI. I think they had 60-ish slots for NU's OCI (also lottery). So the problem is that you'll have a much lower chance at meeting the firms to begin with as a WashU 2L. And at least this past summer, WashU 2L's only had the opportunity to meet with 6-8 Chicago BigLaw firms (including WashU's OCI and the shared Chicago Day). Many firms didn't attend WashU events at all.

Doesn't mean you're guaranteed a Chicago offer from NU, just means you'll at least have a guaranteed opportunity to have some screeners with many Chicago firms (every single Chicago firm will attend NU's OCI). Whether this is worth the extra debt to you is a personal decision. There are a handful of former classmates at WashU who will be summering at Chicago firms, but (1) they were the lucky few who got them; and (2) they're all going to a smaller satellite office or a smaller regional firm.

5. My recommendation is that you don't ED, and negotiate the highest scholarship you can get from WashU (and other schools) through the regular cycle. Then you can make an informed decision with all your options on the table.

[valen]

Thank you all for your input. It's really helpful and definitely has me rethinking. I'm going to discuss more with my family and legal connections here on what is the right choice.

[LS2018]

I would defer to Sublime, Hoos, Cuse, etc., but I'll throw in my two cents.

It's goal dependent. If you are gunning biglaw, I def. wouldn't ED. I don't know how this cycle is looking as far as number of apps and all that, but if you want biglaw, and there is even a shot of getting a decent offer from a T13 (yes I think that should be a thing), it would be prudent to let the cycle play out. I love WASHU, but frankly, if you want to end up in Minnesota I'm not even sure going to Minnesota on a full ride wouldn't be the better play. We don't place much in Minnesota, and Chicago is tough to get from here as well.

I know it's tempting to jump at the full ride, but I would hold off. If they intimated that you would be a candidate for the ED, you can ultimately end up getting a really nice offer through RD as well, I would think. Just may take a little negotiation. Your in a great spot, so congrats on that. Good luck!

Thanks for your opinion. I do think I have a decent chance of getting into the t14 (pretty much just NU and GULC), but I don't think I'll get much in terms of scholarships. I also really don't think minnesota will give me much because of my low GPA.

The other thing I've heard is doing 1L at wustl and then transferring up? Idk, still definitely need to think about it but I appreciate your remarks.

Regarding transferring up, from what I have read and personally heard from admissions counselors is do not do it unless you are transferring up for reasons other than finding BigLaw employment upon graduation.
I was told that transferring up "doesn't work" during OCI - specifically, T14 schools look at where you attended 1L and select interviewees based on that school and the grades you received there.
One example given was a student who attended WUSTL Law for 1L then transferred to Harvard. He was totally ignored during OCI at Harvard and had no idea why - turns out it was bc of where he attended 1L - it was like he never transferred.

[chuckbass]

The above is entirely false. Rather than trying to make a cuse post about it I will just wait and defer to cuse on this for an explanation considering he's done it.

[hoos89]

Regarding transferring up, from what I have read and personally heard from admissions counselors is do not do it unless you are transferring up for reasons other than finding BigLaw employment upon graduation.
I was told that transferring up "doesn't work" during OCI - specifically, T14 schools look at where you attended 1L and select interviewees based on that school and the grades you received there.
One example given was a student who attended WUSTL Law for 1L then transferred to Harvard. He was totally ignored during OCI at Harvard and had no idea why - turns out it was bc of where he attended 1L - it was like he never transferred.

Not sure who told you that. It's essentially true that you will be judged as if you were still at your original school (although I doubt that firms do this perfectly), but being at a T14 gives you access to a much, much better OCI than at WUSTL. It's a lottery system, there are more firms, and firms bring more interviewers/have more slots. Your chances are just better. I know a few people who were ~top 1/3 at WUSTL and pulled the trigger after getting like...2 screeners at OCI and then got jobs from Northwestern. Also, I'm going to call total BS on the Harvard anecdote. Anyone who got into Harvard would be ~top 3 in the class and would do just fine at Harvard's OCI. Sure they wouldn't perform as someone who was top 3 at Harvard, but I doubt anyone would expect that.

[chuckbass]

Regarding transferring up, from what I have read and personally heard from admissions counselors is do not do it unless you are transferring up for reasons other than finding BigLaw employment upon graduation.
I was told that transferring up "doesn't work" during OCI - specifically, T14 schools look at where you attended 1L and select interviewees based on that school and the grades you received there.
One example given was a student who attended WUSTL Law for 1L then transferred to Harvard. He was totally ignored during OCI at Harvard and had no idea why - turns out it was bc of where he attended 1L - it was like he never transferred.

Not sure who told you that. It's essentially true that you will be judged as if you were still at your original school (although I doubt that firms do this perfectly), but being at a T14 gives you access to a much, much better OCI than at WUSTL. It's a lottery system, there are more firms, and firms bring more interviewers/have more slots. Your chances are just better. I know a few people who were ~top 1/3 at WUSTL and pulled the trigger after getting like...2 screeners at OCI and then got jobs at Northwestern. Also, I'm going to call total BS on the Harvard anecdote. Anyone who got into Harvard would be ~top 3 in the class and would do just fine at Harvard's OCI. Sure they wouldn't perform as someone who was top 3 at Harvard, but I doubt anyone would expect that.

I also know specifically of one of this year's HLS transfers that is headed to a very big firm for instance.

[hoos89]

Yeah the person who went my year is at a V5 in NYC. Granted that may have happened even without the transfer. Honestly I think if you can get into HYS, then transferring may not make the most sense unless you really want academia or a high level clerkship or money is not an issue for you. If you're not from STL and are below top 10% then you should seriously consider it assuming you can get into a T14 and are looking for big law.

[chuckbass]

Yeah the person who went my year is at a V5 in NYC. Granted that may have happened even without the transfer.

Yea exactly. And when you're at the point of transferring to HLS you're doing so for the prestige or other options. The kids that stayed here with those grades are at V5s.

[sublime]

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[valen]

Yeah the person who went my year is at a V5 in NYC. Granted that may have happened even without the transfer.

Yea exactly. And when you're at the point of transferring to HLS you're doing so for the prestige or other options. The kids that stayed here with those grades are at V5s.

Do you mean the people who stayed at wustl? Or are you referencing a different school?

[valen]

Yeah the person who went my year is at a V5 in NYC. Granted that may have happened even without the transfer. Honestly I think if you can get into HYS, then transferring may not make the most sense unless you really want academia or a high level clerkship or money is not an issue for you. If you're not from STL and are below top 10% then you should seriously consider it assuming you can get into a T14 and are looking for big law.

Also, HYS gives fin aid to transfers from my understanding, which also helps.

And I heard that at least two of the kids who went to H had a tough time during OCI, but they are still going to V5s, and one offer is all you need.

Cuse killed it at OCI though, but he is significantly less of a complete fucking asshole than the two H kids I know of.

Fwiw, I stayed here with not top 10% but pretty good grades without StL ties and am happy with it. A lot of that is the dumb luck that I pulled an offer with a firm that I am extremely happy with. However, that firm isn't in StL either as I struck out here.

Can I ask where your firm is? Also where did you move from?

[sublime]

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[regulartime]

Would it be out of place for me to maybe just come to campus and walk around some on my day off? Not really a visit where I'd talk to admissions, but just to get the feel of the area.

[LET'S GET IT]

Would it be out of place for me to maybe just come to campus and walk around some on my day off? Not really a visit where I'd talk to admissions, but just to get the feel of the area.

I wouldn't see why it would be. I'd be glad to show you around if you want a tour, but if not the campus is open and the law school is open during the day to anyone. I think after like 6 you need an ID to get in.

[sublime]

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