University of TEXAS c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013 cycle) Forum

[TheThriller]

Shinto, if we end up going to the same school (unlikely because you're an lsat superstar) can we be roommates?

[shntn]

Shinto, if we end up going to the same school (unlikely because you're an lsat superstar) can we be roommates?

Done.

[helpplease]

Greetings. I just started 2L at UT, so I'm happy to answer questions about pretty much anything, from how to apply to the culture of the city.

Hey everyone, I'll be taking the October LSAT and will be applying ED to UT and really want to maximize my chances of getting in. I have a 3.55 gpa and I'm currently scoring 164-166 on my PTs, so will probably be getting a score in that range. What do you guys think my chances are considering I'm a Texas resident and attend undergrad here as well? Also, great softs/worked all throughout college. UT is my number one choice and I'm getting really nervous as this LSAT gets closer and closer.

[BigZuck]

Your gpa is on the lowish side for them and assume you'll score between 3 to 5 points lower than you average. Even if you hit 166 I don't think your chances are amazingly great but you would have a fighting chance especially with the instate bump. Also go ahead and assume your softs are mediocre like everyone else.

With that gpa I wouldn't feel super comfortable unless I hit a 170+. Even if UT is the end goal you would like to some T14 acceptances and schollys to bring down that COA because UT is arguably not worth it even at instate rates.

[helpplease]

Your gpa is on the lowish side for them and assume you'll score between 3 to 5 points lower than you average. Even if you hit 166 I don't think your chances are amazingly great but you would have a fighting chance especially with the instate bump. Also go ahead and assume your softs are mediocre like everyone else.

With that gpa I wouldn't feel super comfortable unless I hit a 170+. Even if UT is the end goal you would like to some T14 acceptances and schollys to bring down that COA because UT is arguably not worth it even at instate rates.

Out of curiosity, why do you think UT is not worth it w/o scholarships?

[shntn]

Your gpa is on the lowish side for them and assume you'll score between 3 to 5 points lower than you average. Even if you hit 166 I don't think your chances are amazingly great but you would have a fighting chance especially with the instate bump. Also go ahead and assume your softs are mediocre like everyone else.

With that gpa I wouldn't feel super comfortable unless I hit a 170+. Even if UT is the end goal you would like to some T14 acceptances and schollys to bring down that COA because UT is arguably not worth it even at instate rates.

Out of curiosity, why do you think UT is not worth it w/o scholarships?

Probably this (LinkRemoved). The ability to service that amount of debt is basically dependent on whether or not one lands a biglaw job in Texas. With other schools, the job placement statistics aren't so concentrated in one market, providing relatively more of a safety net in case any one market goes belly-up for whatever reason.

At least that's what I assume he was getting at.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Your gpa is on the lowish side for them and assume you'll score between 3 to 5 points lower than you average. Even if you hit 166 I don't think your chances are amazingly great but you would have a fighting chance especially with the instate bump. Also go ahead and assume your softs are mediocre like everyone else.

With that gpa I wouldn't feel super comfortable unless I hit a 170+. Even if UT is the end goal you would like to some T14 acceptances and schollys to bring down that COA because UT is arguably not worth it even at instate rates.

Out of curiosity, why do you think UT is not worth it w/o scholarships?

Probably this (LinkRemoved). The ability to service that amount of debt is basically dependent on whether or not one lands a biglaw job in Texas. With other schools, the job placement statistics aren't so concentrated in one market, providing relatively more of a safety net in case any one market goes belly-up for whatever reason.

At least that's what I assume he was getting at.

Texas, as a market, is a lot more stable than other legal markets. There is going to be energy work in the foreseeable future, and there are a decent of large corporations in both Dallas and Houston to balance things out.

That said, I think going to UT at sticker (even at the instate rate) is probably not the best decision. I love UT and really enjoyed my time here, but I think that taking on huge amount of debts for schools besides HYS (and maybe a select few others like Columbia and Chicago) is a huge risk. And even if you are able to get biglaw, if you have 200K in debt, you don't have too many options--you pretty much have to work in biglaw until you pay off your loans. Limiting debt is a huge consideration, both in terms of managing the risk of not finding a high paying job and in terms of giving yourself some career flexibility.

[shifty_eyed]

Texas, as a market, is a lot more stable than other legal markets. There is going to be energy work in the foreseeable future, and there are a decent of large corporations in both Dallas and Houston to balance things out.

That said, I think going to UT at sticker (even at the instate rate) is probably not the best decision. I love UT and really enjoyed my time here, but I think that taking on huge amount of debts for schools besides HYS (and maybe a select few others like Columbia and Chicago) is a huge risk. And even if you are able to get biglaw, if you have 200K in debt, you don't have too many options--you pretty much have to work in biglaw until you pay off your loans. Limiting debt is a huge consideration, both in terms of managing the risk of not finding a high paying job and in terms of giving yourself some career flexibility.

Do you think the low COL offsets this somewhat? I know 200k in debt is still 200K in debt, but if $150k in Dallas is like $68k in NY, does getting mid/small/shitlaw necessarily mean debtor's prison here?

http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2010

[GirlStop]

Checking in...

Praying this goes well for all of us.

[lisjjen]

Your gpa is on the lowish side for them and assume you'll score between 3 to 5 points lower than you average. Even if you hit 166 I don't think your chances are amazingly great but you would have a fighting chance especially with the instate bump. Also go ahead and assume your softs are mediocre like everyone else.

With that gpa I wouldn't feel super comfortable unless I hit a 170+. Even if UT is the end goal you would like to some T14 acceptances and schollys to bring down that COA because UT is arguably not worth it even at instate rates.

Wow, aren't you just Mr. Gloomy McRainCloud

So basically, the cycles are changing because applications are down like 50% across the board. I would definitely write a "Why Texas" essay, and visiting might not hurt either. Also, don't listen to the dumbass above. With in-state tuition, Texas can definitely still be worth it if you put in the work. I would say half of my friends here made $3k a week last summer and are going on to make $160k a year when they graduate. Of course, these are the friends who did well with grades, so you need to ask yourself how hard you're willing to work before you go.

[lisjjen]

does getting mid/small/shitlaw necessarily mean debtor's prison here?

OK, I'm glad this came up. Small and midlaw are often harder to break into than biglaw, and sometimes they pay better.

Also, define: shitlaw. When I think of shitlaw, I think of established attorneys giving you scraps. That works out to be around $25k a year. If that's all you can pick up, it's not worth it. But I've only met one person during my entire time at UT that was doing that, and given how messed up that person was, it had nothing to do with where they went to school.

[lsacqueen]

Checking in. App went complete 10/2. GL everyone!

[BigZuck]

Your gpa is on the lowish side for them and assume you'll score between 3 to 5 points lower than you average. Even if you hit 166 I don't think your chances are amazingly great but you would have a fighting chance especially with the instate bump. Also go ahead and assume your softs are mediocre like everyone else.

With that gpa I wouldn't feel super comfortable unless I hit a 170+. Even if UT is the end goal you would like to some T14 acceptances and schollys to bring down that COA because UT is arguably not worth it even at instate rates.

Wow, aren't you just Mr. Gloomy McRainCloud

So basically, the cycles are changing because applications are down like 50% across the board. I would definitely write a "Why Texas" essay, and visiting might not hurt either. Also, don't listen to the dumbass above. With in-state tuition, Texas can definitely still be worth it if you put in the work. I would say half of my friends here made $3k a week last summer and are going on to make $160k a year when they graduate. Of course, these are the friends who did well with grades, so you need to ask yourself how hard you're willing to work before you go.

Down 50%? Where did you get that number?

And I'm worried about the other half of your friends. Not to mention your group might have disproportionately good outcomes. This is all anecdotal anyway. The cold hard numbers say that only about 1/3 of the class will be in a good position to effectively service their debt. I would not feel super comfortable about risking 170K+ to have a 33% chance at a favorable outcome.

I like UT and it is near the very top of my list but I wouldn't feel great about paying full freight.

[Ruxin1]

Your gpa is on the lowish side for them and assume you'll score between 3 to 5 points lower than you average. Even if you hit 166 I don't think your chances are amazingly great but you would have a fighting chance especially with the instate bump. Also go ahead and assume your softs are mediocre like everyone else.

With that gpa I wouldn't feel super comfortable unless I hit a 170+. Even if UT is the end goal you would like to some T14 acceptances and schollys to bring down that COA because UT is arguably not worth it even at instate rates.

Wow, aren't you just Mr. Gloomy McRainCloud

So basically, the cycles are changing because applications are down like 50% across the board. I would definitely write a "Why Texas" essay, and visiting might not hurt either. Also, don't listen to the dumbass above. With in-state tuition, Texas can definitely still be worth it if you put in the work. I would say half of my friends here made $3k a week last summer and are going on to make $160k a year when they graduate. Of course, these are the friends who did well with grades, so you need to ask yourself how hard you're willing to work before you go.

Down 50%? Where did you get that number?

And I'm worried about the other half of your friends. Not to mention your group might have disproportionately good outcomes. This is all anecdotal anyway. The cold hard numbers say that only about 1/3 of the class will be in a good position to effectively service their debt. I would not feel super comfortable about risking 170K+ to have a 33% chance at a favorable outcome.

I like UT and it is near the very top of my list but I wouldn't feel great about paying full freight.

This fucking strawman without knowing how much everyone is paying

[BigZuck]

Wut? I'm talking about paying full instate sticker which is what a borderline instate admit would have to pay.

Anyway this is too much of a derailment, back to people posting "checking in" over and over and over.

[BigZuck]

does getting mid/small/shitlaw necessarily mean debtor's prison here?

OK, I'm glad this came up. Small and midlaw are often harder to break into than biglaw, and sometimes they pay better.

Also, define: shitlaw. When I think of shitlaw, I think of established attorneys giving you scraps. That works out to be around $25k a year. If that's all you can pick up, it's not worth it. But I've only met one person during my entire time at UT that was doing that, and given how messed up that person was, it had nothing to do with where they went to school.

Oh jeez I just saw this. So if we read both your posts we learn that if someone goes to UT and hustles and works hard enough they can get a smalllaw job that pays better than biglaw? I don't even...

[Ruxin1]

Wut? I'm talking about paying full instate sticker which is what a borderline instate admit would have to pay.

Anyway this is too much of a derailment, back to people posting "checking in" over and over and over.

And you are saying the whole class pays that from your comment "only a 1/3 can service their debt"

[BigZuck]

Wut? I'm talking about paying full instate sticker which is what a borderline instate admit would have to pay.

Anyway this is too much of a derailment, back to people posting "checking in" over and over and over.

And you are saying the whole class pays that from your comment "only a 1/3 can service their debt"

Fair enough. What I meant was as an individual with 170K in debt you would have a 1/3 chance to pay it off without being crippled financially.

[Ruxin1]

Wut? I'm talking about paying full instate sticker which is what a borderline instate admit would have to pay.

Anyway this is too much of a derailment, back to people posting "checking in" over and over and over.

And you are saying the whole class pays that from your comment "only a 1/3 can service their debt"

Fair enough. What I meant was as an individual with 170K in debt you would have a 1/3 chance to pay it off without being crippled financially.

Agreed but COL is so low in Texas, I think it's a rare school where you can reasonably be out around 100k which you would be fine, especially when looking at peer schools.

I.E. Look at Emory, those kids STRUGGLE to get firm jobs in Atlanta, UT dominates the healthy Texas market.

[nonprofit-prophet]

does getting mid/small/shitlaw necessarily mean debtor's prison here?

OK, I'm glad this came up. Small and midlaw are often harder to break into than biglaw, and sometimes they pay better.

Also, define: shitlaw. When I think of shitlaw, I think of established attorneys giving you scraps. That works out to be around $25k a year. If that's all you can pick up, it's not worth it. But I've only met one person during my entire time at UT that was doing that, and given how messed up that person was, it had nothing to do with where they went to school.

Oh jeez I just saw this. So if we read both your posts we learn that if someone goes to UT and hustles and works hard enough they can get a smalllaw job that pays better than biglaw? I don't even...

What he is saying applies to almost any school. Small law is hard to get because it's small. They don't have established hiring programs like big law and certainly aren't known for near 100% offer rates. It's more a function of the firm's characteristics than UT's placement power.

EDIT: i'd also argue that your 1/3 number is off. Texas has an unusual number of respected lit boutiques. So any figure that uses firm size as a proxy will be flawed. We have 2 susman offices, Gibbs, McKool, Yetter, Bickel, Beck Redden, Scott Doug, etc... That's probably an extra 6 percentage points or so, getting you closer to the 40% mark.

[SaintsTheMetal]

tag

[lisjjen]

Oh jeez I just saw this. So if we read both your posts we learn that if someone goes to UT and hustles and works hard enough they can get a smalllaw job that pays better than biglaw? I don't even...

Susman Godfrey only has 91 attorneys spread between five offices, making each office qualify as smalllaw. Their associates are usually from the top 3% of the class and are moot court champions. After you work there your 2L summer, they won't take you back unless you clerk for a federal judge, they make you partner after about 4 years, and it's not uncommon for a first year associate to make over $200k their first year on the job. And by the way, these first year associates go into depositions against 10 year partners at Quinn Emannuel solo and take them down.

If you already know everything there is to know about the legal market, why are you on this forum?

[BigZuck]

As an applicant to UT, Law School Transparency had me uneasy about the fact that only 70% of all graduates get a job as a lawyer and only 30% get either big law or a federal clerkship. I assumed that virtually everyone there would be bright and a hard worker but that many would be left out in the cold and have a difficult time finding a job that could service 170K+ in debt in an effective manner. But now that I know that as long as I work hard I'll be fine and that a well paying boutique with 91 attorneys hires grads from a school that graduates 300+ JDs a year all of my uneasiness has been assuaged. Sorry I ever said anything, I take it all back, you're absolutely right. I won't ever suggest that someone try and bring down their COA ever again. Now, can we agree to not derail this thread anymore?

Btw I can't remember if I said this or not but: checking in.

[airbud]

From UT's Admissions FAQs:

"How do I know when my application is complete? Will you notify me?

"No, we will not notify you. Your LSAC Activity Update will be helpful in this matter. Your application becomes complete upon receipt of your Law School Report, if all mandatory attachments have been submitted. We will notify you of mandatory attachments that are missing. We will, however, send you a confirmation email letting you know when your application has been processed provided you have included your email address in your application."

My UT application on LSAC reads "completed" (since this past Sat) but I have not received a confirmation from their admissions office.

What's the typical lag time from going complete with LSAC to getting confirmation from UT?

[TheThriller]

Old UT 25/75: 165-170, 3.56-3.8, Medians - 167, 3.71
New UT 25/75: 163-169, 3.52-3.82, Medians - 167, 3.67

From C/O 2015 thread