Submitted Application, Rejected 13 days later Forum

[Dex]

Thoughts please!

Unfortunately your Grad School GPA counts for very little. Like that or not, it's the way it is. Your 3.6 is marginally above Buffalo's Median, but your LSAT of 148 is below average, and below Buffalo's 25th percentile.

If you want to see a different outcome to your cycle, the answer is to retake the LSAT.

Of the other schools you mentioned, lawschoolpredictor.com has you as a deny at all bar Syracuse where you're a weak consider.

You are off base. I have personally spoken to 6 Admin directors during on campus visits and they weigh a grad degree MORE heavily than an undergrad gpa.
Many schools will factor in your softs IF you show above average interest.

My thought is this: Did you visit the school? Did you write a target letter? Does the school offer what you want to specialize in?
if you answer no to any of this, they spotted you a mile away. Safety or not.
Don't let one rejection freak you out. Safety schools tend to be schools we 'settle for'

Considering Grad school GPAs don't factor into school's GPA medians, and thus do not affect their USNews rankings, I'd say he's not off base at all.

[thegor1987]

also: all I can say about the OP's situation is that it is strange, but not out of the ordinary. I'm just speaking from my own experience that schools take as long as they like to accept/reject you whether you're an auto-admit, auto-reject, or in between the two. I have applied to schools that I know I have no chance in hell of getting into, and it's taking them longer than 13 days to reject me, but I'm not taking that as a sign that I have a hope of getting in. Just count yourself lucky that they haven't been stringing you along. Best advice I can give is stop over thinking everything: you'll get in where you get in and you'll be dinged by whoever dings you. It'll all come in time. Just sit back and wait for the accept/reject letters to come in. Don't listen to what all these people say and their attacks on whether or not you should go to law school. Screw them. If you want to go to law school then go to law school. Granted, they do admit with a heavy reliance on numbers, but there's a lot of ad hoc consideration of applications and if someone sees something they like, your chances will be better. If you get rejected from everywhere this cycle, do anything you can to strengthen your application for next cycle. Volunteer, secure more academic recommendations, DO RETAKE THE LSAT AND STUDY YOUR ASS OFF TO GET AT LEAST ABOVE A 160, and get a good personal statement written. In the end, unless you plan on dying when you're 30, it's never too late to try, try again. Just make sure to put in the work.

much love.

'you'll get in where you get in' i had a little lol at this blurb, not if he applied to only 8 schools with a 148 he might not get in anywhere. If OP want to go to law school next fall he will need to apply to more schools.

[sandaltan]

merry christmas from california.

first of all, sorry, i just got my first rejection from UVA, (fuckers), but seriously i had such a small chance of acceptance, but I figured if i didnt get rejected SOMEWHERE then my aim was off to begin with. Imagine a cycle where youre accepted everywhere...probably shoulda aimed higher.

that being said, i thought i would be thrilled with my first acceptance (american), but while it allows me to sleep a little better knowing im in SOMEWHERE, it makes me want more, something better.

looking back at my lsat, i crushed the arguments, i think i missed 2 or 3 questions out of both sections. my reading comp was decent and then i flunked games. flunked it like ashley and bob and cameron and dick and ethan, driving some goddamn truck, dropping off hot dogs or molding dinosaurs to fit onto a shelf or something just hopped off the page and punched me in the nuts.

then i come on here and explain how i managed a 164, and know what i was told?

retake.

what the hell was i talking about?

oh ya, retake. retake that shit man.

[tttlllsss]

merry christmas from california.

first of all, sorry, i just got my first rejection from UVA, (fuckers), but seriously i had such a small chance of acceptance, but I figured if i didnt get rejected SOMEWHERE then my aim was off to begin with. Imagine a cycle where youre accepted everywhere...probably shoulda aimed higher.

that being said, i thought i would be thrilled with my first acceptance (american), but while it allows me to sleep a little better knowing im in SOMEWHERE, it makes me want more, something better.

looking back at my lsat, i crushed the arguments, i think i missed 2 or 3 questions out of both sections. my reading comp was decent and then i flunked games. flunked it like ashley and bob and cameron and dick and ethan, driving some goddamn truck, dropping off hot dogs or molding dinosaurs to fit onto a shelf or something just hopped off the page and punched me in the nuts.

then i come on here and explain how i managed a 164, and know what i was told?

retake.

what the hell was i talking about?

oh ya, retake. retake that shit man.

A 164 is not bad. Depending on your goals and debt situation, that may be all you need.

A 148 is awful and should be raised to at least 155-158 (for URMs) before law school is on the table for discussion.

[well-hello-there]

looking back at my lsat, i crushed the arguments, i think i missed 2 or 3 questions out of both sections. my reading comp was decent and then i flunked games.
i managed a 164

so...LR=-3...RC=-5?....and LG was a -12 ????!!!!!!
you missed like 12 on LG and STILL got a 164!!!!!!!
man, you gotta retake that shit!

[2Serious4Numbers]

looking back at my lsat, i crushed the arguments, i think i missed 2 or 3 questions out of both sections. my reading comp was decent and then i flunked games.
i managed a 164

so...LR=-3...RC=-5?....and LG was a -12 ????!!!!!!
you missed like 12 on LG and STILL got a 164!!!!!!!
man, you gotta retake that shit!

srsly wtf

[sandaltan]

looking back at my lsat, i crushed the arguments, i think i missed 2 or 3 questions out of both sections. my reading comp was decent and then i flunked games.
i managed a 164

so...LR=-3...RC=-5?....and LG was a -12 ????!!!!!!
you missed like 12 on LG and STILL got a 164!!!!!!!
man, you gotta retake that shit!

i think i was -6 RC and -10 LG if i remember right.

i was very close to hiring a private tutor to work on games with me, but I work full time and i lost motivation and blah blah blah...ive been outta school for 2 years and i just wanna play bball when i get home.

[NayBoer]

With a 148, law schools are going to be worried that you can't even handle the work and pass the bar. The quick turnaround means that the admissions committee didn't even have to think about your application. You said that you didn't dedicate as much time as you should have to studying for the LSAT, so I'm not saying either way whether any of those assumptions about you are true. I'm just saying that they exist. Your GPA is solid enough that, with a potential URM boost, you could get into a much higher caliber of schools with just a 160. Hell, a 155. Right now, I don't think you have much of a shot outside tier four schools.

Just let this rejection motivate you to take the year off, study like crazy for the LSAT, and go somewhere better, possibly with money. Or, and people don't want to hear this, but maybe not go to law school at all. As of now with your 148, the only schools you have a good shot at getting into are the schools that are absolutely not worth the money.

[well-hello-there]

My man, don't listen to all the retake garbage people will want to feed you. Some people just don't perform well on standardized exams. You WILL get into a law school with your score and credentials. It won't be HYS but you will get in somewhere. I suggest you do some research on schools who have lower medians. If you really want to go into law and don't feel like you can do better on the LSAT, find a school which will accept your scores, as I am positive some will. There are a lot of haters out there who want to shit on everyone who can't get a 180 but if you really want to get into law school this cycle you can, just gotta find the right schools.

You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch.

You're a 3 Decker sour kraut and toad stool sandwich
With arsenic sauce!!!!!

[ahduth]

it is stunning on this site that so many people actually think you can't be honest without being mean. It is the definition of lacking in social skills. You can get a lot more done in this world by making people feel connected, welcome and comfortable without sacrificing one ounce of truth. The people who deny this are scared shitless that it is true.

There's a difference between being mean and being cold and factual. Nothing here has been needlessly antagonizing or outside the norms of this forum. You're just unused to hearing the unabridged truth - HTH

It's called a reality check, and it never comes bundled in words of encouragement. Sorry.

BTW, how's the weather up there in your tower?

1) "there a difference between being mean and being cold and factual" why is "cold" a natural part of factual for you?
2) Reality checks can come bundled in whatever people want them to. You have made a choice and that's fine but don't present it as the only choice.
3) the weather is great

Too many students enter the legal industry because they have a half-formed notion of success which will never be. This is a haven which is insulated from those ideas. Frankly, I'm glad there is a place where we can be honest with one another under the veil of anonymity, without having to be worried about social niceties which often distort the cold, hard facts.

How long have you been out of undergrad? You seem to be conflating being an asshole with delivering cold, hard facts. In the real world, both assholes and people who act with decency and kindness can be successful. I'd disagree with kwais, it's not really a choice you make - it's simply a personality trait. That you desire a "veil of anonymity" to communicate effectively is troubling.

[tttlllsss]

How long have you been out of undergrad? You seem to be conflating being an asshole with delivering cold, hard facts. In the real world, both assholes and people who act with decency and kindness can be successful. I'd disagree with kwais, it's not really a choice you make - it's simply a personality trait. That you desire a "veil of anonymity" to communicate effectively is troubling.

Nope, the "think positive" people flooding this thread are the real assholes. Are YOU going to pay off OP's $200k+ debt from her TTT law school when she doesn't have a job after graduation or any long-term career prospects?

At the end of the day, she's going to remember "go for it" and "you can do it" and she's going to eventually break into a TTT only to graduate w/ $200k+ debt, no job prospects, and a terribly dismal future. And posters like yourself are going to be directly responsible for it b/c you were concerned with social niceties.

Hope it feels good to contribute to someone's demise, hypocrite.

[d34d9823]

How long have you been out of undergrad? You seem to be conflating being an asshole with delivering cold, hard facts. In the real world, both assholes and people who act with decency and kindness can be successful. I'd disagree with kwais, it's not really a choice you make - it's simply a personality trait. That you desire a "veil of anonymity" to communicate effectively is troubling.

The facts themselves, regardless of delivery, are offensive to some.

[Nom Sawyer]

Thoughts please!

Unfortunately your Grad School GPA counts for very little. Like that or not, it's the way it is. Your 3.6 is marginally above Buffalo's Median, but your LSAT of 148 is below average, and below Buffalo's 25th percentile.

If you want to see a different outcome to your cycle, the answer is to retake the LSAT.

Of the other schools you mentioned, lawschoolpredictor.com has you as a deny at all bar Syracuse where you're a weak consider.

You are off base. I have personally spoken to 6 Admin directors during on campus visits and they weigh a grad degree MORE heavily than an undergrad gpa.
Many schools will factor in your softs IF you show above average interest.

Just need to reiterate this is completely wrong in case anyone gets misled... Admissions directors don't always have perfect incentive to give you the clearcut truth about admissions.

UGPA counts for about 40% of your admissions (with the LSAT being another 45%).

[derrminater]

Why does everyone think that if you dont go to HYS you can't get a job? I seriously doubt that after three years of law school noone will hire you for any job.

[Kilpatrick]

Why does everyone think that if you dont go to HYS you can't get a job? I seriously doubt that after three years of law school noone will hire you for any job.

After three years of law school no one wants just ANY job. Sure you might be able to work at Burger King (although you'll probably have to leave your JD off of your resume because a lot of shitty jobs are going to think you are overqualified). But usually people go to law school so they can get a legal job. And if you go to the kind of school that takes 148 LSAT scores, you're not getting one.

[tttlllsss]

Why does everyone think that if you dont go to HYS you can't get a job? I seriously doubt that after three years of law school noone will hire you for any job.

No one ever said that. However, almost everyone who isn't being irrational agrees that uncertainty and risk increase somewhat once you leave HYS, even moreso when you leave T14, and even moreso when you leave T30. When you reach T2 schools in crowded markets, e.g., NYC, law school becomes an incredibly risky proposition, even w/ $$$.

[well-hello-there]

Thoughts please!

Unfortunately your Grad School GPA counts for very little. Like that or not, it's the way it is. Your 3.6 is marginally above Buffalo's Median, but your LSAT of 148 is below average, and below Buffalo's 25th percentile.

If you want to see a different outcome to your cycle, the answer is to retake the LSAT.

Of the other schools you mentioned, lawschoolpredictor.com has you as a deny at all bar Syracuse where you're a weak consider.

You are off base. I have personally spoken to 6 Admin directors during on campus visits and they weigh a grad degree MORE heavily than an undergrad gpa.
Many schools will factor in your softs IF you show above average interest.

Just need to reiterate this is completely wrong in case anyone gets misled... Admissions directors don't always have perfect incentive to give you the clearcut truth about admissions.

UGPA counts for about 40% of your admissions (with the LSAT being another 45%).

+1
Many grad. schools inflate the hell out of their students' grades. At my school's graduation ceremony, there were like 2 summa cum laudes in the entire undergraduate business college and there were only like 2 people in the entire graduate program who DIDN'T earn summa cum laude.

[derrminater]

Why does everyone think that if you dont go to HYS you can't get a job? I seriously doubt that after three years of law school noone will hire you for any job.

No one ever said that. However, almost everyone who isn't being irrational agrees that uncertainty and risk increase somewhat once you leave HYS, even moreso when you leave T14, and even moreso when you leave T30. When you reach T2 schools in crowded markets, e.g., NYC, law school becomes an incredibly risky proposition, even w/ $$$.

Why of course, but people make it sound like you're living in a cardboard box with a degree from, say widener, when that clearly will not be the case.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Thoughts please!

Unfortunately your Grad School GPA counts for very little. Like that or not, it's the way it is. Your 3.6 is marginally above Buffalo's Median, but your LSAT of 148 is below average, and below Buffalo's 25th percentile.

If you want to see a different outcome to your cycle, the answer is to retake the LSAT.

Of the other schools you mentioned, lawschoolpredictor.com has you as a deny at all bar Syracuse where you're a weak consider.

You are off base. I have personally spoken to 6 Admin directors during on campus visits and they weigh a grad degree MORE heavily than an undergrad gpa.
Many schools will factor in your softs IF you show above average interest.

My thought is this: Did you visit the school? Did you write a target letter? Does the school offer what you want to specialize in?
if you answer no to any of this, they spotted you a mile away. Safety or not.
Don't let one rejection freak you out. Safety schools tend to be schools we 'settle for'

^The above is just wrong. Graduate degrees can be a decent soft, but I don't know of any school that actually uses graduate GPA in their admissions formulas. It's pretty common knowledge that a huge chunk of graduate programs have rampant over-inflation.

[09042014]

DELETED

Offensive. Women are not objects.

Reported for thinking that having sex makes a woman an object.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Why does everyone think that if you dont go to HYS you can't get a job? I seriously doubt that after three years of law school noone will hire you for any job.

No one ever said that. However, almost everyone who isn't being irrational agrees that uncertainty and risk increase somewhat once you leave HYS, even moreso when you leave T14, and even moreso when you leave T30. When you reach T2 schools in crowded markets, e.g., NYC, law school becomes an incredibly risky proposition, even w/ $$$.

Why of course, but people make it sound like you're living in a cardboard box with a degree from, say widener, when that clearly will not be the case.

Not living in a cardboard box, but there is a very good chance you'll be drowning in debt if you attended at full cost.

[09042014]

Not a cardboard box, but definitely your mom's boyfriend's basement.

[sandaltan]

step 1: tier 4
step 2: massive loans
step 3: ???
step 4: profit

[sandaltan]

also, on a similar note, i have a couple friends at chapman (ca) that seem to be doing just fine.

i have another friend who aced the lsat with a 147 at whittier who took 1/2 his student loan dispersement and "invested" it.

maybe thats step 3.

[applepiecrust]

DELETED

That poster is quite darned epic for TLS (for everyone that can't read Devnagari, the subtitle says phir ek baar which means "once more").

Also, retake is the correct answer in this case. Seriously. Just give it a few months of well-planned, serious studying, take the June LSAT, and reapply next cycle. I know this would be your third time taking the LSAT, but the first two tries should definitely at least give you a reasonable idea of what parts you need to work most on. At your scoring range, even an LSAT course could be beneficial.

Of course, I also think a 168 should retaken (I am probably retaking in February), so take that advice as you will.