Texas Tech v South Texas Forum

[darknightbegins]

I've heard of Tech grads getting some jobs in Austin. But it is still Lubbock. I got in at Tech and they gave me some money but I'm withdrawing. Hopefully this helps someone.

Where will you be going in the fall darknight?

Not sure. I visited LSU and liked the place. I have put down seat deposits there. Also put down a seat deposit at Arkansas and they gave me some money. Got into my own state school, UNM. I like Albq and getting in state tuition is nice. I'm still waiting to hear back from ASU. I'm riding a waitlist at SMU and William and Mary, but I'm only really serious about William and Mary. If I get in there then I am moving there the next day. Although SMU is nice...the price...Yikes. I'd say right now it is a toss up between LSU and UNM.

One thing about Texas Tech I did like was all the law professors with military backgrounds. I liked that as I wouldn't mind working for JAG or the federal government and it seems their faculty has alot of connections in that area. Maybe something for you guys to look into if that is your interest.

Looks like you have some pretty good and diverse options. If you get into William and Mary, that would be pretty nice- it's a beautiful place; I've also got a sweet spot for them since Thomas Jefferson went there. UNM is unbelievably cheap - in this economy and job market this becomes more valuable. I also like Albuquerque- I've got relatives out there. I don't know much about Arkansas or ASU. I had to say no to SMU- I liked the campus, but it's over $100k more than Tech for me. I've paid off hundreds of thousands in debt before, and it's not something I want to do again. I've heard good things about LSU, but I'd watch out for that redhead (sorry, couldn't help it - I think that made you a legend on TLS)!

It's too bad you don't like Lubbock, with all of the military connections Tech has. I'm not personally interested in military law, but I was impressed to find out that Dean Huffman is a Four-Star General and he was the top JAG for the entire US Army. He's got some pretty good anecdotes about negotiating with the Chinese and also with the Russians. The Russian story involved a lot of shots of vodka. He also had Alberto Gonzales pop into his National Security Law class this semester to answer questions from his students about why he did what he did. Pretty impressive. A bunch of the other professors and deans have military connections as well.

For me, I've really liked Lubbock each time I've visited - this actually surprised me the first time I was there - I expected that I wouldn't like it. After visiting, it seems like the perfect atmosphere for me to go to law school - not too many distractions (it would be harder for me in Austin), I've found some great restaurants, the campus is really nice, and the swim pool is right by the law school. I'm also a little older than the average law student, so my priorities might be a little different.

For both of us, liking the city/region the school is in is pretty important, and it will have a major influence on where we end up working. I look forward to finding out where you end up, especially if it's at LSU!

Yeah the military connection is what really attracted me to Tech. I was reviewing their faculty and I was like "Fuck, it is like almost everyon has big time experience with the military". So that was a plus for me and maybe for other people. I never read anyone on here discuss that about Tech which is surprising since I would think it would attract some people.

But yeah region and area is really big for me. I plan on living in the area that I go to school for at least 5-8 years so I want to know that I like the culture, people, food all that stuff.

I don't blame you for not going with SMU. It is a great campus just with that price tag, man. I would need to know I had some hella good connections with big Dallas firms before going to SMU to justify that kind of money on that school.

In state for UNM yeah that is dirt cheap, and the money from Arkansas makes cost about the same between those two schools. LSU is a bit more for me, but I like Louisiana and that state loves LSU, every gas station I stopped in around the state had Tiger shit for sale. And yeah, shame about the red head. But I suspect she wasn't THAT offended as she made it seem like. Ah well, class with her would be interesting none the less. Maybe that is just my over inflated ego talking.

So you chose Tech because of the money and the area? Do you have a family? What kind of law are interested in?

[texas man]

So you chose Tech because of the money and the area? Do you have a family? What kind of law are interested in?

I know several attorneys in Austin, and when I started my law school search, a UT grad who's a partner at a big law firm here recommended Tech (and UT naturally). I really didn't know much about it before then. The more I talked to attorneys in the area, the more good things I heard. Then there's the cost - it's 40k less than UH (I'm also not a big fan of that part of Houston- I grew up in Houston), and a lot less than the other Texas schools. After visiting UH, SMU, & Tech, it became a no-brainer (I've gone into this a little more in depth in some other posts).

I've been in a relationship for 6 years now - she'll be moving up to Lubbock at some point in the next year (& I'm lucky because she likes it too). I'm interested in Business Law, Intellectual Property (especially copyright & trademarks), Contracts, Entertainment Law and the challenges that exist at their intersection. I'd also like to come back to Austin to work. I have a lot of connections here, so it might not be quite as difficult for me vs. someone who isn't from here.

[TCScrutinizer]

So you chose Tech because of the money and the area? Do you have a family? What kind of law are interested in?

I know several attorneys in Austin, and when I started my law school search, a UT grad who's a partner at a big law firm here recommended Tech (and UT naturally). I really didn't know much about it before then. The more I talked to attorneys in the area, the more good things I heard. Then there's the cost - it's 40k less than UH (I'm also not a big fan of that part of Houston- I grew up in Houston), and a lot less than the other Texas schools. After visiting UH, SMU, & Tech, it became a no-brainer (I've gone into this a little more in depth in some other posts).

I've been in a relationship for 6 years now - she'll be moving up to Lubbock at some point in the next year (& I'm lucky because she likes it too). I'm interested in Business Law, Intellectual Property (especially copyright & trademarks), Contracts, Entertainment Law and the challenges that exist at their intersection. I'd also like to come back to Austin to work. I have a lot of connections here, so it might not be quite as difficult for me vs. someone who isn't from here.

You should take a look at Jackson & Walker in Austin if you haven't already.

[texas man]

You should take a look at Jackson & Walker in Austin if you haven't already.

Thanks for recommendation - back in 2004, Laura Lee Stapleton, who put together the E-Copyright Law Handbook, gave me a copy (she worked at Jackson Walker at the time). Pretty good stuff. I don't know anyone personally there now, but it would be a great place to work, and I think they have a few Tech grads there.

[jgrin]

If you want to practice in Houston/Dallas/Austin, this might be helpful:

From the State Bar of Texas, attorney profiles by county:

Harris:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Se ... ntID=24268

Dallas:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Se ... ntID=24266

Tarrant:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Se ... ntID=24270

Travis:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Se ... ntID=24271

So, I agree with B.Gump -- if Houston, then South Texas. If anywhere else in Texas, then Texas Tech. Then again, the Lanier Law Firm is in Houston...

This is good information. To me, it shows that Tech is comparable to SMU and UH outside of their respective markets and to Baylor's placement across the entire state. And with UH's tuition increase, it is about half the price of each of these schools. People will spout off statistics, rankings, and biglaw prospects, but with the economy the way it is and the fact that biglaw firms are cutting their recruitment numbers, it just seems common sense to at least seriously consider Tech. Just imagine going to smu or uh or baylor, not being in top quartile, and coming out with $100,000+ in debt just because you thought the chance at biglaw was worth the risk. I believe that as a result of this recession, people will slowly begin to realize the biglaw bubble has popped and will take tuition and COL much more into consideration. People like to say they went to a higher ranked school, but the truth of the matter is that "prestige" only gets you your first job. After that, no one cares where you went.

To me, the difference isn't statistically significant, besides in Tarrant County. In Dallas county Texas Tech boasts a whopping 6%, while South Texas trails only by 3%. In Travis county, they both have 5% representation. South Texas has the highest representation in Houston, while Texas Tech does not even come close to having the highest representation in any of these four counties. This tells me that South Texas has the most weight in one of the top legal markets in Texas, and has about the same, but slightly less pull in the other three legal markets. Additionally, Texas Tech does not carry the most weight in any of the four, and does only significantly better in one (Tarrant county). The 3% difference in Dallas is not statistically significant enough to claim anything IMO. So with this data, I feel the choice is clearly South Texas, unless you want to practice in Tarrant county, being that ST dominates one of the biggest, if not the biggest, legal markets in the state, and does about the same as Texas Tech in the remaining 2 out of 3.

[texas man]

To me, the difference isn't statistically significant, besides in Tarrant County. In Dallas county Texas Tech boasts a whopping 6%, while South Texas trails only by 3%. In Travis county, they both have 5% representation. South Texas has the highest representation in Houston, while Texas Tech does not even come close to having the highest representation in any of these four counties. This tells me that South Texas has the most weight in one of the top legal markets in Texas, and has about the same, but slightly less pull in the other three legal markets. Additionally, Texas Tech does not carry the most weight in any of the four, and does only significantly better in one (Tarrant county). The 3% difference in Dallas is not statistically significant enough to claim anything IMO. So with this data, I feel the choice is clearly South Texas, unless you want to practice in Tarrant county, being that ST dominates one of the biggest, if not the biggest, legal markets in the state, and does about the same as Texas Tech in the remaining 2 out of 3.

I definitely disagree that the choice is clearly South Texas in Austin or Dallas. In Dallas County (14,636 total attorneys), there are 910 Tech grads working vs. 378 from South Texas. In terms of percentage, this is slight, but not meaningless (In Travis County they are very close). It's also instructive to consider these numbers while looking at how many graduates these schools produce each year -- Tech produces about half as many as South Texas.

The reason I posted these numbers was just to add some info that might be helpful in making a decision - it wasn't to say that this data is the only determining factor in choosing. Along with this data, the total cost of education, including cost of living is very important; also, visiting each school should play a big part in making the decision. Look at the Bar passage rates for the schools. Ask attorneys where you want to work what they think. I want to work in Austin, I did all of these things, and choosing Tech over South Texas was an easy decision to make.

Don't get me wrong, I think South Texas is a highly under-rated school. Based on success in competitions for trial advocacy, they are ranked #1 in the nation above all law schools. Texas Tech is ranked #2. I also applied to South Texas, and I wouldn't have applied there if it wasn't somewhere I would go if I didn't get into other schools.

So, based on all factors, I stand by my original statement that outside of Houston, Texas Tech. But then again, if you ask Mark Lanier, who lives in Houston, it would be Texas Tech everywhere including Houston.

[b.gump81]

If you want to practice in Houston/Dallas/Austin, this might be helpful:

From the State Bar of Texas, attorney profiles by county:

Harris:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Se ... ntID=24268

Dallas:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Se ... ntID=24266

Tarrant:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Se ... ntID=24270

Travis:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Se ... ntID=24271

So, I agree with B.Gump -- if Houston, then South Texas. If anywhere else in Texas, then Texas Tech. Then again, the Lanier Law Firm is in Houston...

This is good information. To me, it shows that Tech is comparable to SMU and UH outside of their respective markets and to Baylor's placement across the entire state. And with UH's tuition increase, it is about half the price of each of these schools. People will spout off statistics, rankings, and biglaw prospects, but with the economy the way it is and the fact that biglaw firms are cutting their recruitment numbers, it just seems common sense to at least seriously consider Tech. Just imagine going to smu or uh or baylor, not being in top quartile, and coming out with $100,000+ in debt just because you thought the chance at biglaw was worth the risk. I believe that as a result of this recession, people will slowly begin to realize the biglaw bubble has popped and will take tuition and COL much more into consideration. People like to say they went to a higher ranked school, but the truth of the matter is that "prestige" only gets you your first job. After that, no one cares where you went.

To me, the difference isn't statistically significant, besides in Tarrant County. In Dallas county Texas Tech boasts a whopping 6%, while South Texas trails only by 3%. In Travis county, they both have 5% representation. South Texas has the highest representation in Houston, while Texas Tech does not even come close to having the highest representation in any of these four counties. This tells me that South Texas has the most weight in one of the top legal markets in Texas, and has about the same, but slightly less pull in the other three legal markets. Additionally, Texas Tech does not carry the most weight in any of the four, and does only significantly better in one (Tarrant county). The 3% difference in Dallas is not statistically significant enough to claim anything IMO. So with this data, I feel the choice is clearly South Texas, unless you want to practice in Tarrant county, being that ST dominates one of the biggest, if not the biggest, legal markets in the state, and does about the same as Texas Tech in the remaining 2 out of 3.

This may get a little long, so I apologize, but I'll try and break it down a little for you.

Firstly to address your reading comp fail, I was comparing Tech to the ranked Texas schools, not South Texas. In fact, I never once even mentioned South Texas in that post. I have bolded it, so you can clearly see I was referring to the prospects for SMU, UH, and Baylor.

Now, there are a couple of things to consider when looking at these statistics. Tech has only been around since 1970, making it only 40 years old, while STCL has been around since 1923. You can show the percentages, but the fact of the matter remains unchanged, Tech still has better numbers in every market except Houston, and South Texas had about a 50 year head start on creating an alumni base and connections. Also keep in mind STCL has twice as many graduates as Tech each year. This fact alone, in my opinion, illustrates how far Tech has come in half the time as STCL.

Next is the price, which I also brought up in my last post. Tech is going to be at least half the price as STCL, and as you even said yourself, has better numbers than STCL outside of their markets. Why pay more for the same thing (which they are not IMO, with Houston being the only exception)?----Only reasonable argument I can think of is that an applicant wants Houston. Other than that, maybe because the applicant did not get into both (similar to your situation).

This brings me back to the main point (which just about every other person has said on this board, if you had read). If an applicant wants to remain in Houston, STCL is the clear choice, but if the applicant wants to live anywhere else in the state, then Tech would be the better option.

[b.gump81]

I also thought this was interesting. I am looking forward to seeing next year's advocacy rankings from U.S. News.

--LinkRemoved--

[jgrin]

To me, the difference isn't statistically significant, besides in Tarrant County. In Dallas county Texas Tech boasts a whopping 6%, while South Texas trails only by 3%. In Travis county, they both have 5% representation. South Texas has the highest representation in Houston, while Texas Tech does not even come close to having the highest representation in any of these four counties. This tells me that South Texas has the most weight in one of the top legal markets in Texas, and has about the same, but slightly less pull in the other three legal markets. Additionally, Texas Tech does not carry the most weight in any of the four, and does only significantly better in one (Tarrant county). The 3% difference in Dallas is not statistically significant enough to claim anything IMO. So with this data, I feel the choice is clearly South Texas, unless you want to practice in Tarrant county, being that ST dominates one of the biggest, if not the biggest, legal markets in the state, and does about the same as Texas Tech in the remaining 2 out of 3.

I definitely disagree that the choice is clearly South Texas in Austin or Dallas. In Dallas County (14,636 total attorneys), there are 910 Tech grads working vs. 378 from South Texas. In terms of percentage, this is slight, but not meaningless (In Travis County they are very close). It's also instructive to consider these numbers while looking at how many graduates these schools produce each year -- Tech produces about half as many as South Texas.

The reason I posted these numbers was just to add some info that might be helpful in making a decision - it wasn't to say that this data is the only determining factor in choosing. Along with this data, the total cost of education, including cost of living is very important; also, visiting each school should play a big part in making the decision. Look at the Bar passage rates for the schools. Ask attorneys where you want to work what they think. I want to work in Austin, I did all of these things, and choosing Tech over South Texas was an easy decision to make.

Don't get me wrong, I think South Texas is a highly under-rated school. Based on success in competitions for trial advocacy, they are ranked #1 in the nation above all law schools. Texas Tech is ranked #2. I also applied to South Texas, and I wouldn't have applied there if it wasn't somewhere I would go if I didn't get into other schools.

So, based on all factors, I stand by my original statement that outside of Houston, Texas Tech. But then again, if you ask Mark Lanier, who lives in Houston, it would be Texas Tech everywhere including Houston.

Texas Tech's graduating class is only about 200?

[b.gump81]

Texas Tech's graduating class is only about 200?

yes. There are rumors they are raising this incoming class to 240, but I am not sure.

[texas man]

Texas Tech's graduating class is only about 200?

I think it's usually between 200 and 240.

[longhornmarine]

Anyone on waitlist at Tech holding a spot, or get accepted off of a waitlist?

[gunsandfrogs]

Anyone on waitlist at Tech holding a spot, or get accepted off of a waitlist?

check your inbox. i sent PM

[kalvano]

Anyone want to share some wisdom on deciding btw St. Mary's and STCL? Wanting to head to Dallas after school.

Then get your LSAT to the point where you can get in to SMU.



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And also, living in Lubbock is worse than living in Mississippi. Lubbock is absolutely god-awful. Tech is an OK school, but it's pretty far down on the list of Texas schools. Also, it's not exactly convenient for doing clinics and summer work.

[b.gump81]

Anyone want to share some wisdom on deciding btw St. Mary's and STCL? Wanting to head to Dallas after school.

Then get your LSAT to the point where you can get in to SMU.



*****************************************



And also, living in Lubbock is worse than living in Mississippi. Lubbock is absolutely god-awful. Tech is an OK school, but it's pretty far down on the list of Texas schools. Also, it's not exactly convenient for doing clinics and summer work.

the quote below was posted over 25 posts before your insightful addition

it is all subjective, but I have lived in lubbock for over 4 years and may have a little bit more insight into the area than you.

Definitely don't think St. Mary's a good option. Not sure how portable STCL degree is to Dallas but I would chance it over St. Mary's.

And I wish you guys would stop arguing about Lubbock. Some are going to love it, some are going to hate it. You idea of exciting things to do is not everyone's idea. Agree to disagree and press on. Tech is not and has never been a bad school.

[kalvano]

I wouldn't trust the word of anyone who voluntarily lives in Lubbock.

It's like choosing to live in Detroit.

[jgrin]

Anyone want to share some wisdom on deciding btw St. Mary's and STCL? Wanting to head to Dallas after school.

Then get your LSAT to the point where you can get in to SMU.



*****************************************



And also, living in Lubbock is worse than living in Mississippi. Lubbock is absolutely god-awful. Tech is an OK school, but it's pretty far down on the list of Texas schools. Also, it's not exactly convenient for doing clinics and summer work.

the quote below was posted over 25 posts before your insightful addition

it is all subjective, but I have lived in lubbock for over 4 years and may have a little bit more insight into the area than you.

Definitely don't think St. Mary's a good option. Not sure how portable STCL degree is to Dallas but I would chance it over St. Mary's.

And I wish you guys would stop arguing about Lubbock. Some are going to love it, some are going to hate it. You idea of exciting things to do is not everyone's idea. Agree to disagree and press on. Tech is not and has never been a bad school.

Dude, everyone in Texas knows that Lubbock SUCKS. Stop trying to make it sound like its not bad. If TT wasn't in Lubbock, then a significantly greater amount of people would go there. I applied there just because I got a fee waiver and sent my app in late. It was never a real option, but i chose to apply because it was free. You are just pissed because you had to spend 4 horrid years there. Get over it

[jgrin]

I wouldn't trust the word of anyone who voluntarily lives in Lubbock.

It's like choosing to live in Detroit.

+1. This guy is a joke if he can actually use Lubbock and a positive word in the same sentence. I am sick of this dude.

[b.gump81]

Dude, everyone in Texas knows that Lubbock SUCKS. Stop trying to make it sound like its not bad. If TT wasn't in Lubbock, then a significantly greater amount of people would go there. I applied there just because I got a fee waiver and sent my app in late. It was never a real option, but i chose to apply because it was free. You are just pissed because you had to spend 4 horrid years there. Get over it

haha jeez buddy. no need to get upset. and I'm not pissed in any way, shape, or form. I loved my time here in Lubbock, and there is no need for you to get all butt hurt when people call you out on why you are advocating for a certain school over another. I'll say it again. QOL is subjective. You can scream all you want about how much you hate lubbock, but you can not speak for everyone that applies to Tech or the 30,000 students that come here year after year. End of story.

+1. This guy is a joke if he can actually use Lubbock and a positive word in the same sentence. I am sick of this dude.

I think it's a joke you think this is some sort of propaganda program trying to convince prospective students to move to Lubbock. I'm not some adcom or employee of Tech. I'm just a student, and I couldn't care less if other people like Lubbock. I just want people to know that the majority of students that come here actually like the city. I'm not saying they never want to leave, just that it is not nearly as bad as people like you make it out to be. I didn't come here for the city of Lubbock, I came for the school. And the city eventually grew on me. And I'm sorry you got so offended when I brought up that you didn't get into Tech, but you need to calm down.

[TCScrutinizer]

I would much rather live in Lubbock than in Waco, Beaumont, or anywhere closer to the border than San Antonio.

[texas man]

Boy, this has degenerated... it's disappointing that in the absence of any sound reasoning comes the stream of invective (from kalvano & jgrin).

I know this is a little off topic, but...

Then get your LSAT to the point where you can get in to SMU.


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And also, living in Lubbock is worse than living in Mississippi. Lubbock is absolutely god-awful. Tech is an OK school, but it's pretty far down on the list of Texas schools. Also, it's not exactly convenient for doing clinics and summer work.

I might have had a more difficult decision to make if SMU was around $100k cheaper. I can see that Tech was pretty far down on your list of Texas schools, but on my list it was pretty high after considering all factors and visiting the schools. Also, I did like SMU when I visited, and Dallas isn't that bad (I prefer it to Houston, especially in terms of where the law schools are), but Lubbock in conjunction with the Texas Tech campus seemed like the perfect place for me to go to law school. Some may disagree, but no one person has a license on good taste.

[kalvano]

That's very true, it's very much a personal decision.

But SMU is pretty scholarship-friendly, and is still, even at full sticker, a much better bet than Texas Tech.

[merichard87]

Glad to see my quote was useful so I would like to add another tid-bit: I'm a born and bred Texan and I would never move to Lubbock. Honestly that city scares me. Too much small town mentality for me. If you want big city it is not the place for you but if you enjoy a rural leaning mid size city we have a WINNER! That is all.

[Lucidity]

South Texas has been pumping out twice as many graduates each year AND has been doing it for 50 years longer than tech. That means there's what, 5 South Texas grads for every Tech grad? And yet STCL still places fewer lawyers than tech in every market except for Houston. I don't mean to rag on STCL, its a fine school that really does not deserve its t4 ranking. But the bottom line is if you go there, you will most likely be stuck in Houston. Nothing wrong with this as Houston is a huge market, but just don't expect any mobility outside of Houston with your degree.

[jgrin]

Dude, everyone in Texas knows that Lubbock SUCKS. Stop trying to make it sound like its not bad. If TT wasn't in Lubbock, then a significantly greater amount of people would go there. I applied there just because I got a fee waiver and sent my app in late. It was never a real option, but i chose to apply because it was free. You are just pissed because you had to spend 4 horrid years there. Get over it

haha jeez buddy. no need to get upset. and I'm not pissed in any way, shape, or form. I loved my time here in Lubbock, and there is no need for you to get all butt hurt when people call you out on why you are advocating for a certain school over another. I'll say it again. QOL is subjective. You can scream all you want about how much you hate lubbock, but you can not speak for everyone that applies to Tech or the 30,000 students that come here year after year. End of story.

+1. This guy is a joke if he can actually use Lubbock and a positive word in the same sentence. I am sick of this dude.

I think it's a joke you think this is some sort of propaganda program trying to convince prospective students to move to Lubbock. I'm not some adcom or employee of Tech. I'm just a student, and I couldn't care less if other people like Lubbock. I just want people to know that the majority of students that come here actually like the city. I'm not saying they never want to leave, just that it is not nearly as bad as people like you make it out to be. I didn't come here for the city of Lubbock, I came for the school. And the city eventually grew on me. And I'm sorry you got so offended when I brought up that you didn't get into Tech, but you need to calm down.

I am gonna say this, and I mean it to be quite offensive. Most people that go to Tech go there because it is there backup and because they didn't get into Texas or ATM. So most people go there not because of preference, but because of lack of options. This is probably the case for you.