WUSTL c/o 2018 Applicants Forum

[chuckbass]

I realize that applying to firms and colleges are different, but I was thinking along the lines of how it would be silly to fill out an individual college's application and the Common App.

Cool, mass-mailing before firms reveal whether they are recruiting could open up bids.

At WUSTL it's 100% preselect and you bid everything, so no this wouldn't help.

[legit]

Can you guys give us a roadmap of the post-1L summer?

From what I have read...

Journal roster/grades come out mid-June.
OCI bidding and off-campus interview applications randomly come out late June through September.

How do you make sure you do not double apply (mass mail and through Wash U)?

Yeah I mean you've got the road map down mostly.

You'd mass mail in early or mid July. You'll find out in July what bids you got, and then most of the OCI programs are in August.

If you really crushed first semester and mass mail for 1L SAs, some firms will ding you but then give you a straight to CB invitation, so you could have that in July, but obviously not something you should expect. I've also had other friends, from other schools fwiw, that have already had screeners from mass mailing, generally in secondary markets though so far.

With the ding and subsequent callback sequence, did that person bid after he/she had already been fake rejected?

[chuckbass]

Can you guys give us a roadmap of the post-1L summer?

From what I have read...

Journal roster/grades come out mid-June.
OCI bidding and off-campus interview applications randomly come out late June through September.

How do you make sure you do not double apply (mass mail and through Wash U)?

Yeah I mean you've got the road map down mostly.

You'd mass mail in early or mid July. You'll find out in July what bids you got, and then most of the OCI programs are in August.

If you really crushed first semester and mass mail for 1L SAs, some firms will ding you but then give you a straight to CB invitation, so you could have that in July, but obviously not something you should expect. I've also had other friends, from other schools fwiw, that have already had screeners from mass mailing, generally in secondary markets though so far.

With the ding and subsequent callback sequence, did that person bid after he/she had already been fake rejected?

Well no, why bid if you already have a CB? I don't think you're understanding quite what I'm getting at (and sorry if you do and ignore my explanation).

So 1L year, when 12/1 hits you're allowed to apply to 1L SAs. Generally firms either hire no 1Ls, or just a few, even the big NYC firms. However, they get a lot of qualified applicants that they're interested in for 2L hiring, so they will ding you for the 1L spot, but then either extend a CB to you for 2L summer, or they will do this more informally and tell you to contact them in the following June/July to schedule a CB. At this point, you would not bid on this firm because you've already secured an interview. This isn't really something to worry about, I just figured I'd mention it.

[legit]

Can you guys give us a roadmap of the post-1L summer?

From what I have read...

Journal roster/grades come out mid-June.
OCI bidding and off-campus interview applications randomly come out late June through September.

How do you make sure you do not double apply (mass mail and through Wash U)?

Yeah I mean you've got the road map down mostly.

You'd mass mail in early or mid July. You'll find out in July what bids you got, and then most of the OCI programs are in August.

If you really crushed first semester and mass mail for 1L SAs, some firms will ding you but then give you a straight to CB invitation, so you could have that in July, but obviously not something you should expect. I've also had other friends, from other schools fwiw, that have already had screeners from mass mailing, generally in secondary markets though so far.

With the ding and subsequent callback sequence, did that person bid after he/she had already been fake rejected?

Well no, why bid if you already have a CB? I don't think you're understanding quite what I'm getting at (and sorry if you do and ignore my explanation).

So 1L year, when 12/1 hits you're allowed to apply to 1L SAs. Generally firms either hire no 1Ls, or just a few, even the big NYC firms. However, they get a lot of qualified applicants that they're interested in for 2L hiring, so they will ding you for the 1L spot, but then either extend a CB to you for 2L summer, or they will do this more informally and tell you to contact them in the following June/July to schedule a CB. At this point, you would not bid on this firm because you've already secured an interview. This isn't really something to worry about, I just figured I'd mention it.

This now makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.

[chuckbass]

Def good for you to think about these things now, but definitely don't worry about it. Worry about crushing it, because that makes all of this easier.

[Jmart082]

Def good for you to think about these things now, but definitely don't worry about it. Worry about crushing it, because that makes all of this easier.

The importance of never putting the cart before the horse has never been, like, more important.

[chingwoo]

I mean is applying to 1L SAs even a good use of time on 12/1? If you have competitive stats for major market SA's, you'd know it(aka you have a hard(PHD) science background or are already a registered patent agent.)

If you are going to WashU for law school its not like you would have been competitive for the spots that go to people before grades come out. If you are going to WashU because you are from St. Louis and have a magic resume, you're still fine because all of those decisions are made Jan-Febish.

[chuckbass]

I mean is applying to 1L SAs even a good use of time on 12/1? If you have competitive stats for major market SA's, you'd know it(aka you have a hard(PHD) science background or are already a registered patent agent.)

If you are going to WashU for law school its not like you would have been competitive for the spots that go to people before grades come out. If you are going to WashU because you are from St. Louis and have a magic resume, you're still fine because all of those decisions are made Jan-Febish.

Well, ~10% of our class got SAs. It takes a day to mass mail firms. I had good first semester grades, but not nearly enough to make me seem very competitive for the 1L SA I got.

[chingwoo]

I mean is applying to 1L SAs even a good use of time on 12/1? If you have competitive stats for major market SA's, you'd know it(aka you have a hard(PHD) science background or are already a registered patent agent.)

If you are going to WashU for law school its not like you would have been competitive for the spots that go to people before grades come out. If you are going to WashU because you are from St. Louis and have a magic resume, you're still fine because all of those decisions are made Jan-Febish.

Well, ~10% of our class got SAs. It takes a day to mass mail firms. I had good first semester grades, but not nearly enough to make me seem very competitive for the 1L SA I got.

But out of everyone I knew who got diversity offers, they all got them after grades came out. We don't harbor those special snowflakes who are hyper competitive beyond the hard IP kids.

Even if your a diversity magnet, with a great undergrad your application is dampened in comparison to other schools based on what school you go to.

[chuckbass]

I mean is applying to 1L SAs even a good use of time on 12/1? If you have competitive stats for major market SA's, you'd know it(aka you have a hard(PHD) science background or are already a registered patent agent.)

If you are going to WashU for law school its not like you would have been competitive for the spots that go to people before grades come out. If you are going to WashU because you are from St. Louis and have a magic resume, you're still fine because all of those decisions are made Jan-Febish.

Well, ~10% of our class got SAs. It takes a day to mass mail firms. I had good first semester grades, but not nearly enough to make me seem very competitive for the 1L SA I got.

But out of everyone I knew who got diversity offers, they all got them after grades came out. We don't harbor those special snowflakes who are hyper competitive beyond the hard IP kids.

Even if your a diversity magnet, with a great undergrad your application is dampened in comparison to other schools based on what school you go to.

I mean I just don't understand not encouraging people to apply? And you won't get hired before grades come out, but a lot of places don't let you apply after XYZ date so you need to get it in before that, which is usually before grades come out anyways and then you just update them.

[chingwoo]

I mean is applying to 1L SAs even a good use of time on 12/1? If you have competitive stats for major market SA's, you'd know it(aka you have a hard(PHD) science background or are already a registered patent agent.)

If you are going to WashU for law school its not like you would have been competitive for the spots that go to people before grades come out. If you are going to WashU because you are from St. Louis and have a magic resume, you're still fine because all of those decisions are made Jan-Febish.

Well, ~10% of our class got SAs. It takes a day to mass mail firms. I had good first semester grades, but not nearly enough to make me seem very competitive for the 1L SA I got.

But out of everyone I knew who got diversity offers, they all got them after grades came out. We don't harbor those special snowflakes who are hyper competitive beyond the hard IP kids.

Even if your a diversity magnet, with a great undergrad your application is dampened in comparison to other schools based on what school you go to.

I mean I just don't understand not encouraging people to apply? And you won't get hired before grades come out, but a lot of places don't let you apply after XYZ date so you need to get it in before that, which is usually before grades come out anyways and then you just update them.

I just figure you should wait until like 12/15 after finals rather than applying before finals.

[chuckbass]

Most apps close pretty quick, and I mean you should have a few hours of free time here or there or you're doing things wrong.

[justkeepswimming794]

I just figure you should wait until like 12/15 after finals rather than applying before finals.

literally your only productive use of time between thanksgiving and winter break is studying for finals.
if you decide for some ungodly reason you MUST have an SA 1L, by all means, go for it. but almost no one cares about your 1L summer. and its essentially pointless to worry about if you're ranked (or near) the top of the class. so, highly recommend you don't waste energy on this and focus on grades


ETA: please don't spend all your winter break trying to get a 1L SA. you need (at least some) time off. see above

[chuckbass]

I just figure you should wait until like 12/15 after finals rather than applying before finals.

literally your only productive use of time between thanksgiving and winter break is studying for finals.
if you decide for some ungodly reason you MUST have an SA 1L, by all means, go for it. but almost no one cares about your 1L summer. and its essentially pointless to worry about if you're ranked (or near) the top of the class. so, highly recommend you don't waste energy on this and focus on grades


ETA: please don't spend all your winter break trying to get a 1L SA. you need (at least some) time off. see above

Again it literally takes a few hours to send out apps, and you should have some free time, at least for your sanity.

If you are diverse, you really should take the time.

It's nice to go into OCI with an offer, or like me, skip OCI entirely.

ETA: also regarding the "almost no one cares about 1L summer." This TLS wisdom applies to most jobs, but not 1L SAs. Even if you don't stay at your 1L firm, this can be a bump at OCI and with transferring.

By all means please continue with the bad advice.

[Fiero85]

Yeah plus 1L SAs pay so so much more. Most 1L summer gigs are either unpaid or a few grand for the summer. Worth taking the one half day it takes to mass apply. I can't imagine that being too much time off from studying in December compared to the reward. If you're diverse or end up with good first semester grades, there's a good chunk of people who land one, so it's not a pipe dream.

[chuckbass]

Yeah plus 1L SAs pay so so much more. Most 1L summer gigs are either unpaid or a few grand for the summer. Worth taking the one half day it takes to mass apply. I can't imagine that being too much time off from studying in December compared to the reward. If you're diverse or end up with good first semester grades, there's a good chunk of people who land one, so it's not a pipe dream.

Also another bonus is that it can save you if you get great first semester grades and drop the following semester. Many upsides, little to no downsides.

[LawsRUs]

Question for Scotti et al--
(Sorry for intruding, but I don't know anyone else who got 1L SA.)

If you applied on 12/1 and if you did get a 1L SA (which you did obv.), BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

Also is LGI still a student here? He's not planning to transfer? (Sorry if this has been mentioned itt already.)

[WheatThins]

[quote="LawsRUs"]BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

quote]

If you have bad grades you're not getting a job at any firm that does OCI.

[LET'S GET IT]

Question for Scotti et al--
(Sorry for intruding, but I don't know anyone else who got 1L SA.)

If you applied on 12/1 and if you did get a 1L SA (which you did obv.), BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

Also is LGI still a student here? He's not planning to transfer? (Sorry if this has been mentioned itt already.)

Best to do both. If you get a 1L SA, you will probably be judged by that firm more by your work than by your second semester grades. But regardless go ahead and go through OCI and then if your summer firm offers you, you may have to weigh some competing offers, which is never a bad thing.

[chingwoo]

Question for Scotti et al--
(Sorry for intruding, but I don't know anyone else who got 1L SA.)

If you applied on 12/1 and if you did get a 1L SA (which you did obv.), BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

Also is LGI still a student here? He's not planning to transfer? (Sorry if this has been mentioned itt already.)

^ Scotti's SA is from a late application. Unless you are hard IP or a T6 URM, you aren't getting offered a 1L SA without grades(and not great grades are necessary, just not shitty).

[Jmart082]

Question for Scotti et al--
(Sorry for intruding, but I don't know anyone else who got 1L SA.)

If you applied on 12/1 and if you did get a 1L SA (which you did obv.), BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

Also is LGI still a student here? He's not planning to transfer? (Sorry if this has been mentioned itt already.)

^ Scotti's SA is from a late application. Unless you are hard IP or a T6 URM, you aren't getting offered a 1L SA without grades(and not great grades are necessary, just not shitty).

There's also this thing called networking. I don't know, though. It sounds like something of a lost art, and life is way more convenient when your meetings are arranged for you.

[chingwoo]

Question for Scotti et al--
(Sorry for intruding, but I don't know anyone else who got 1L SA.)

If you applied on 12/1 and if you did get a 1L SA (which you did obv.), BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

Also is LGI still a student here? He's not planning to transfer? (Sorry if this has been mentioned itt already.)

^ Scotti's SA is from a late application. Unless you are hard IP or a T6 URM, you aren't getting offered a 1L SA without grades(and not great grades are necessary, just not shitty).

There's also this thing called networking. I don't know, though. It sounds like something of a lost art, and life is way more convenient when your meetings are arranged for you.

I mean hustle gang is the way to go. JohnnyQuest(I think thats his TLS handle) style.

[legit]

Question for Scotti et al--
(Sorry for intruding, but I don't know anyone else who got 1L SA.)

If you applied on 12/1 and if you did get a 1L SA (which you did obv.), BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

Also is LGI still a student here? He's not planning to transfer? (Sorry if this has been mentioned itt already.)

^ Scotti's SA is from a late application. Unless you are hard IP or a T6 URM, you aren't getting offered a 1L SA without grades(and not great grades are necessary, just not shitty).

There's also this thing called networking. I don't know, though. It sounds like something of a lost art, and life is way more convenient when your meetings are arranged for you.

During your first year, did you go to law firm events on campus? I have heard to study and not go.

[lososos]

Question for Scotti et al--
(Sorry for intruding, but I don't know anyone else who got 1L SA.)

If you applied on 12/1 and if you did get a 1L SA (which you did obv.), BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

Also is LGI still a student here? He's not planning to transfer? (Sorry if this has been mentioned itt already.)

^ Scotti's SA is from a late application. Unless you are hard IP or a T6 URM, you aren't getting offered a 1L SA without grades(and not great grades are necessary, just not shitty).

There's also this thing called networking. I don't know, though. It sounds like something of a lost art, and life is way more convenient when your meetings are arranged for you.

During your first year, did you go to law firm events on campus? I have heard to study and not go.

I went to a couple. At wustl most are for stl firms (hard to believe, I know), which I'm not particularly interested in, so in terms of actual potential for getting me a job that I want, I didn't find them that helpful. But networking is a pretty important and useful skill (especially so if you don't have stellar grades), and IMO something you can get better at only by doing, and for that reason I did find these things beneficial. And they can be kind of fun, since you're there with mostly your classmates and there's food and drinks and the attorneys who attend them generally actually want to talk to you and will try to make good and interesting conversation. And seriously, your studying is probably not going to be compromised by taking out a couple hours and attending a few of these events.

[Jmart082]

Question for Scotti et al--
(Sorry for intruding, but I don't know anyone else who got 1L SA.)

If you applied on 12/1 and if you did get a 1L SA (which you did obv.), BUT say you had gotten bad grades in your 1L year, is it better to try to trade down at OCI in August to a firm that has a more realistic chance of giving you an offer at a job after graduation?

Also is LGI still a student here? He's not planning to transfer? (Sorry if this has been mentioned itt already.)

^ Scotti's SA is from a late application. Unless you are hard IP or a T6 URM, you aren't getting offered a 1L SA without grades(and not great grades are necessary, just not shitty).

There's also this thing called networking. I don't know, though. It sounds like something of a lost art, and life is way more convenient when your meetings are arranged for you.

During your first year, did you go to law firm events on campus? I have heard to study and not go.

I went to a couple. At wustl most are for stl firms (hard to believe, I know), which I'm not particularly interested in, so in terms of actual potential for getting me a job that I want, I didn't find them that helpful. But networking is a pretty important and useful skill (especially so if you don't have stellar grades), and IMO something you can get better at only by doing, and for that reason I did find these things beneficial. And they can be kind of fun, since you're there with mostly your classmates and there's food and drinks and the attorneys who attend them generally actually want to talk to you and will try to make good and interesting conversation. And seriously, your studying is probably not going to be compromised by taking out a couple hours and attending a few of these events.

I remember reading somewhere on the interwebz (both CSO and a certain Dean have reiterated this) that OCI is only successful for a very small percentage of students (it may actually be a larger percentage, the more prestigious the school), so keeping that in mind, it can't possibly hurt to get face time with potential employers in a context that isn't a high pressure interview situation. Being a genuinely interesting person with hobbies, the ability to make eye contact (yes, this profession is replete with people who can't do this in spite of being top caliber students) and to have meaningful conversation is definitely an advantage that is worth showcasing to people already established who may be able to provide you with employment. That's just my two cents on the matter. I could just be talking out of my hiney.