WUSTL c/o 2018 Applicants Forum

[Fiero85]

As for the cream rising thing, maybe - whatever. But you won't know if you're the cream or the grainy crap at the bottom of your mug until you take exams anyway.

+1

this is the thing most 0Ls cannot fathom.

[RareExports]

Not referring to money, what do you think the right tipping point is for a person shooting for elite employment to choose Wash U over better-ranked schools and ditch SLU?

As everybody knows, a kid ranked well at Wash U would have a better shot at big law than another kid ranked at the bottom of some T14 schools. In addition, a kid ranked well at SLU would have a better shot at Bryan Cave than another kid ranked at the bottom of Wash U.

If not money, what tipping point are you referring to?

[chuckbass]

Not referring to money, what do you think the right tipping point is for a person shooting for elite employment to choose Wash U over better-ranked schools and ditch SLU?

As everybody knows, a kid ranked well at Wash U would have a better shot at big law than another kid ranked at the bottom of some T14 schools. In addition, a kid ranked well at SLU would have a better shot at Bryan Cave than another kid ranked at the bottom of Wash U.

If you're biglaw or bust, talking about the tipping point for "elite employment," then I would not go anywhere besides a T14.

[chuckbass]

Don't worry about 1L SAs. It's nice if it happens, but it doesnt't mean you're in trouble for a 2L SA. A lot of the diversity SAs don't give return offers as frequently, from what I can tell.

As for the cream rising thing, maybe - whatever. But you won't know if you're the cream or the grainy crap at the bottom of your mug until you take exams anyway.

I completely agree about not worrying about 1L SAs, just wanted to encourage people to at least try. And yeah most people with 2L SAs wouldn't have been able to get 1L SAs so there's no worry there.

[Fiero85]

Not referring to money, what do you think the right tipping point is for a person shooting for elite employment to choose Wash U over better-ranked schools and ditch SLU?

As everybody knows, a kid ranked well at Wash U would have a better shot at big law than another kid ranked at the bottom of some T14 schools. In addition, a kid ranked well at SLU would have a better shot at Bryan Cave than another kid ranked at the bottom of Wash U.

How could you not factor money into this question? Either I'm misunderstanding you or your qualifier is dumb.

As a SLU alum, I was faced with this decision, and money definitely played a huge role.

In my humble opinion:

For those focused heavily on STL employment

Anywhere lower than WUSTL, including SLU, at sticker<<<<malaria<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<doing anything else with your life<<<<WUSTL sticker<<<<<<T14 sticker<<<<<SLU 50-80% scholly<<<<<CCN sticker<<<<SLU full ride<<<<WUSTL 50-80% scholly<<<<<T14 50-80% scholly<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<WUSTL fully<<<T14 fully or HYS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<CCN fully

For those primarily seeking "elite" employment elsewhere

Anywhere lower than WUSTL at sticker<<<<malaria or T25 sticker<<<<<<T14 sticker<<<<<Regional (below T25) 50-80% scholly<<<<<CCN sticker<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<doing anything else with your life<<T25 50-80% scholly<<<<<T14 50-80% scholly<<<T25 fully<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<T14 fully or HYS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<CCN fully

[chingwoo]

Not referring to money, what do you think the right tipping point is for a person shooting for elite employment to choose Wash U over better-ranked schools and ditch SLU?

As everybody knows, a kid ranked well at Wash U would have a better shot at big law than another kid ranked at the bottom of some T14 schools. In addition, a kid ranked well at SLU would have a better shot at Bryan Cave than another kid ranked at the bottom of Wash U.

How could you not factor money into this question? Either I'm misunderstanding you or your qualifier is dumb.

As a SLU alum, I was faced with this decision, and money definitely played a huge role.

In my humble opinion:

For those focused heavily on STL employment

Anywhere lower than WUSTL, including SLU, at sticker<<<<malaria<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<doing anything else with your life<<<<WUSTL sticker<<<<<<T14 sticker<<<<<SLU 50-80% scholly<<<<<CCN sticker<<<<SLU full ride<<<<WUSTL 50-80% scholly<<<<<T14 50-80% scholly<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<WUSTL fully<<<T14 fully or HYS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<CCN fully

For those primarily seeking "elite" employment elsewhere

Anywhere lower than WUSTL at sticker<<<<malaria or T25 sticker<<<<<<T14 sticker<<<<<Regional (below T25) 50-80% scholly<<<<<CCN sticker<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<doing anything else with your life<<T25 50-80% scholly<<<<<T14 50-80% scholly<<<T25 fully<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<T14 fully or HYS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<CCN fully

What do they have you doing over down yonder?

[Fiero85]

What do they have you doing over down yonder?

PM'd

[WheatThins]

Not referring to money, what do you think the right tipping point is for a person shooting for elite employment to choose Wash U over better-ranked schools and ditch SLU?

As everybody knows, a kid ranked well at Wash U would have a better shot at big law than another kid ranked at the bottom of some T14 schools. In addition, a kid ranked well at SLU would have a better shot at Bryan Cave than another kid ranked at the bottom of Wash U.

What do you consider elite employment? Bryan Cave? AUSA position? JAG? Wachtell?

[LET'S GET IT]

If you had to estimate--what fraction of those who wanted a 1L SA were able to get one? Are these all/mostly to STL firms? And can it be done without diversity/STL ties?

ETA: Obviously it can be done. And I would imagine top 5% puts you in great running. I'm wondering more about 10%, 20%, 25%, etc.

Excluding people with connections: I know several people who got 1L SA's, but it's not easy. Diversity is probably more of an asset than grades for 1L SA's, but that's exclusive to 1L I think. That being said, I know multiple people who where not diverse and didn't have great grades that still got interviews and call backs with firms. Putting a percentage on it is hard because it's hard to know who all wants a 1L SA or really goes for it. Wanting one but only applying through 1L OCI is different than mass mailing and really gunning hard for one. Most of the people that I know that got those jobs did not get them through 1L OCI.

What you do 1L isn't super important so some people who would have a decent shot at a 1L SA don't even try for one. Because biglaw firms don't care what you do your 1L summer, lots of people try to do PI stuff 1L summer so that if they strike out at OCI, they can sell the "I'm all about PI" schtick, because PI employers often do care about seeing a dedication to PI.

Oh, and most of the ones I know that got 1L firm jobs were not STL firms fwiw.

If you want one, definitely mass mail. Going only through 1L OCI and hoping to land a 1L firm job is a really bad idea. I applied to one STL firm for a 1L summer job and was told by a prof that they only take diversity for 1L summer jobs, so definitely mass mail.

[legit]

Please try not to laugh, but deciding how big of a fish you are and how small of a pond you want to dive into.

[LET'S GET IT]

Not referring to money, what do you think the right tipping point is for a person shooting for elite employment to choose Wash U over better-ranked schools and ditch SLU?

As everybody knows, a kid ranked well at Wash U would have a better shot at big law than another kid ranked at the bottom of some T14 schools. In addition, a kid ranked well at SLU would have a better shot at Bryan Cave than another kid ranked at the bottom of Wash U.

How could you not factor money into this question? Either I'm misunderstanding you or your qualifier is dumb.

As a SLU alum, I was faced with this decision, and money definitely played a huge role.

In my humble opinion:

For those focused heavily on STL employment

Anywhere lower than WUSTL, including SLU, at sticker<<<<malaria<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<doing anything else with your life<<<<WUSTL sticker<<<<<<T14 sticker<<<<<SLU 50-80% scholly<<<<<CCN sticker<<<<SLU full ride<<<<WUSTL 50-80% scholly<<<<<T14 50-80% scholly<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<WUSTL fully<<<T14 fully or HYS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<CCN fully

For those primarily seeking "elite" employment elsewhere

Anywhere lower than WUSTL at sticker<<<<malaria or T25 sticker<<<<<<T14 sticker<<<<<Regional (below T25) 50-80% scholly<<<<<CCN sticker<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<doing anything else with your life<<T25 50-80% scholly<<<<<T14 50-80% scholly<<<T25 fully<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<T14 fully or HYS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<CCN fully

Fiero, this just BLEW MY MIND!!

[chuckbass]

Yeah I didn't get my SA through 1L OCI since I had no desire to work in STL.

[chuckbass]

Please try not to laugh, but deciding how big of a fish you are and how small of a pond you want to dive into.

The thing with law school is that you don't know if you're a big fish yet. If you're thinking that you'll do better at SLU than at WUSTL, or better at WUSTL than at a T14, then you're not thinking about this right.

[Hikikomorist]

When you talk about firms weighing diversity heavily for 1L SAs, are they using the same standard as the one used by law school admissions? I searched the site for this, but the main thread seemed to give conflicting answers.

[Fiero85]

When you talk about firms weighing diversity heavily for 1L SAs, are they using the same standard as the one used by law school admissions? I searched the site for this, but the main thread seemed to give conflicting answers.

Much broader definition, generally. Includes Asians, Indians, LGBT, etc.

[Fiero85]

Please try not to laugh, but deciding how big of a fish you are and how small of a pond you want to dive into.

The thing with law school is that you don't know if you're a big fish yet. If you're thinking that you'll do better at SLU than at WUSTL, or better at WUSTL than at a T14, then you're not thinking about this right.

This.

Therefore, use a cost vs median student employment prospects decision making system like I attempted above , try your best and hope for a good result.

[chuckbass]

When you talk about firms weighing diversity heavily for 1L SAs, are they using the same standard as the one used by law school admissions? I searched the site for this, but the main thread seemed to give conflicting answers.

Much broader definition, generally. Includes Asians, Indians, LGBT, etc.

Yeah I'm white, male, LGBT. But when we're talking about diversity positions, a lot of these 1L SA positions are specifically for diverse candidates. The majority of 1L SA positions are diversity positions (in general, not in STL). The more diverse you are the better, as in LGBT for instance doesn't seem to be nearly as big of a boost as AA, but again it's worth a shot and opens the door.

[legit]

Not referring to money, what do you think the right tipping point is for a person shooting for elite employment to choose Wash U over better-ranked schools and ditch SLU?

As everybody knows, a kid ranked well at Wash U would have a better shot at big law than another kid ranked at the bottom of some T14 schools. In addition, a kid ranked well at SLU would have a better shot at Bryan Cave than another kid ranked at the bottom of Wash U.

What do you consider elite employment? Bryan Cave? AUSA position? JAG? Wachtell?

At this point, I think elite employment is big law, NLJ 250 or Vault 100.

I was interested to see if there were other factors besides money or ranking/median opportunities that people based their decisions on.

[legit]

Thank you Fiero85, LET'S GET IT, and scottidsntknow.

I hope you feel better, scottidsntknow!

[Fiero85]

I was interested to see if there were other factors besides money or ranking/median opportunities that people based their decisions on.

Other than what I would call "networking factors", like weighing in where your past connections are located and where you are targeting to work (I recommend being in or as close to your target market during LS as possible), there's not much else to correctly consider. Money vs reasonable employment expectation is the name of the game. Right now I can't think of anything additional for everyone to rightly consider besides being sensible about geography.

[chuckbass]

I would definitely consider geography as well. It was extremely annoying being in STL and looking for jobs on the east coast. It worked out fine and you can do phone interviews/Skype and it's not a problem, but it's just so much easier to go to school in the market you wish to work (or closer to it).

[RareExports]

I have a few questions about the Dean's Fellowships and I was hoping someone ITT either had one, or knows about them who could answer a few questions. As background info, I'm "fully committed" to Wash U for this application cycle, but had been registered for the June 2015 LSAT prior to that full commitment. I spoke with Admissions about this and they basically implied that since it was in everyone's best interest for me to retake nonetheless and hopefully improve my score, there was a chance that if I increased my score, I would be eligible for stipend monies. It's totally possible that they just said that to incentivize me to actually take it and hopefully improve, but I still had some questions:

-Are the Dean's Fellowships totally cemented by this point in the cycle, or do you think it would be possible to ask for one with an LSAT increase? I'm more interested in the faculty connection than the stipend monies, although both would be nice.
-How many Dean's Fellows are there typically per academic year?
-Are there any Dean's Fellowships without stipends? Are there any stipends on top of full tuition scholarships that are not considered Dean's Fellows?

Feel free to pm and please do not quote this post.

Thanks in advance! Everyone ITT has been awesome so far.

[Fiero85]

^PM in the works

[tealeaves12]

[removed]

Best of luck

[chuckbass]

Fwiw I wouldn't worry about formal faculty connections. You'll build relationships with professors naturally if you try, and these are more useful. You also generally would want to take a class from a professor and do very well for the relationship to be useful for recommendations and such. And finding an RA position is easy anyways.