Case Western 2010 Forum

[snowpeach06]

Anyway, yeah, not gonna lie. You came across as a tool.

Can I ask why? It seems to me very reasonable to want very precise details (rather than vague assurances) when you are talking about (likely)50k-75k in debt. I also felt it was unprofessional to not tell the students the 2009 data (and instead only 2008 data), when she did say they had compiled it but were waiting until "national averages" came out to post it.

Probably just because you were reading off numbers. It's not so much what you asked as how you asked it.

Oh, haha, I wasn't reading anything, but I guess without anyone seeing me, it probably sounded like that. I've actually memorized the ABA/LSAC, USNEWS, and NALP employment/admissions/breakdown data for all the schools I've applied to, so I just added those off the cuff to showcase what kind of data I was looking for.

In any case, even though I'd like to think I am not a tool, I'm probably up for anything (regarding your PS) this evening. I've got a hotel tonight and no deadline tomorrow, and it's either go out or just watch the NCAA tourney. Not to say that there's anything wrong with the latter, but I didn't fill out a bracket this year.....so I have no money or teams at stake.

One moment of seeming like a tool does not a tool make. I don't think I met you, but, I'm sure you are a totally nice person. I think we all get a bit crazy when it comes to law school sine it's such a big decision.

Anyway, sweet. One person in... who else?

[angioletto]

I thought today was great, although most of what was said I already knew. I did enjoy talking to a couple of professors and introducing myself to the financial aid person whom I have already contacted via e-mail and phone several times over the past few weeks. I thought she might like a face to go with the name. As did I.

It really made me even more excited to start school this fall although I do still feel some concern over the GPA requirements for my scholarship. From what they said today it sounds like top 20-25% is 3.15 and above. Does that sounds right? I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be in the top 20-25% but then again doesn't everyone think they will be towards the top? I guess that sums it up for me - excited to go there but terrified of losing my scholarship.

At least you can still get half the scholarship if you get above a 2.8. Which shouldn't be hard. And yeah, I think I pretty much just knew everything they covered, which was disappointing.

I've pretty much already decided that if I can't pull a 2.8 law school might not be for me.

Does your avatar really look like you? It's funny because looking at it makes me think I met you....

Uhm, no. I'm a girl. Maybe a similar nose, but that's about it.

Hmmmm... a girl I talked to today took the LSAT at Case...... maybe I did meet you! Pink sweater?

[snowpeach06]

Hmmmm... a girl I talked to today took the LSAT at Case...... maybe I did meet you! Pink sweater?

Nope. I was just wearing a t-shirt and cardigan. And a peach colored scarf.

[84Sunbird2000]

I thought today was great, although most of what was said I already knew. I did enjoy talking to a couple of professors and introducing myself to the financial aid person whom I have already contacted via e-mail and phone several times over the past few weeks. I thought she might like a face to go with the name. As did I.

It really made me even more excited to start school this fall although I do still feel some concern over the GPA requirements for my scholarship. From what they said today it sounds like top 20-25% is 3.15 and above. Does that sounds right? I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be in the top 20-25% but then again doesn't everyone think they will be towards the top? I guess that sums it up for me - excited to go there but terrified of losing my scholarship.

I'm pretty sure that 3.15 is more like top 45-50%. They said 20-25% receive A's in each class. Thus, a 3.5 is likely about top 20-25%. If 20-25% receive A's and 50-55% receive B's, then I'd guess those grades fall along a continuum (B plus, B, B minus). If they distribute equally within that group, I'd guess top 40% is about a 3.25, and 3.15 around top half.

While this includes uncurved upper-level courses that would likely push the numbers up, Case's median GPA for graduating 3Ls is 3.23 according to NALP. Their 75th for graduating students is 3.0.

I also talked to one of the professors who indicated that all Case scholarships in the past were good standing requirement scholarships (2.33 GPA), but they changed that this year because of a large number of scholly recipients who slacked off.

[sarlis]

Anyway, sweet. One person in... who else?

Yeah going out would be fun, depends where we go though. I am from the Cleveland area, so I am in town haha

[sarlis]

angioletto: were you the guy today that I talked to the professor about the clinics with?

[angioletto]

Hmmmm... a girl I talked to today took the LSAT at Case...... maybe I did meet you! Pink sweater?

Nope. I was just wearing a t-shirt and cardigan. And a peach colored scarf.

OK, NM. But I DID meet you, 84Sunbird2000 and I stand by what I told you at lunch - the numbers are a good thing to know but they aren't everything so it just really seemed like you got all riled up over this in a way where you were almost accusing them of hiding/falsifying info. Which maybe they were, but I think that would be something to approch with them individually rather than bringing up in such a way during such a large presentation.

[angioletto]

angioletto: were you the guy today that I talked to the professor about the clinics with?

Nope. I'm a girl.

[84Sunbird2000]

angioletto: were you the guy today that I talked to the professor about the clinics with?

ITT: People don't check user profiles for gender. :p

[sarlis]

angioletto: were you the guy today that I talked to the professor about the clinics with?

ITT: People don't check user profiles for gender. :p

touche, lol.

[snowpeach06]

This website should really have profile pictures or something so that we can recognize who we've met. Also, some adjustments to the quoting system.

Anyway, I don't know. If we go to Coventry we can all go and talk ad nauseum.

[angioletto]

So does anyone have any idea what could be in store for the event on June 11? (Entering students day) If anything I am excited to meet more people who are committed to Case. I was surprised at how much I liked the people I met today.

[sarlis]

This website should really have profile pictures or something so that we can recognize who we've met. Also, some adjustments to the quoting system.

Anyway, I don't know. If we go to Coventry we can all go and talk ad nauseum.

there are a few people at paninis in coventry right now actually, one of the guys who is there just texted me

[thexfactor]

FWIW There are 48 people on deans list in my 1L class. I think we have 215 students total. deans list is 3.4+. Since there are a limited amount of grades out, there are a lot of people tied for the same grades.

I thought today was great, although most of what was said I already knew. I did enjoy talking to a couple of professors and introducing myself to the financial aid person whom I have already contacted via e-mail and phone several times over the past few weeks. I thought she might like a face to go with the name. As did I.

It really made me even more excited to start school this fall although I do still feel some concern over the GPA requirements for my scholarship. From what they said today it sounds like top 20-25% is 3.15 and above. Does that sounds right? I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be in the top 20-25% but then again doesn't everyone think they will be towards the top? I guess that sums it up for me - excited to go there but terrified of losing my scholarship.

[snowpeach06]

This website should really have profile pictures or something so that we can recognize who we've met. Also, some adjustments to the quoting system.

Anyway, I don't know. If we go to Coventry we can all go and talk ad nauseum.

there are a few people at paninis in coventry right now actually, one of the guys who is there just texted me

Ohh, sweet. I didn't even think to like, try and make friends and get numbers and stuff. But I realize I should have, because even if I don't wind up at Case, ya'll could still be my future classmates.

[sarlis]

This website should really have profile pictures or something so that we can recognize who we've met. Also, some adjustments to the quoting system.

Anyway, I don't know. If we go to Coventry we can all go and talk ad nauseum.

there are a few people at paninis in coventry right now actually, one of the guys who is there just texted me

Ohh, sweet. I didn't even think to like, try and make friends and get numbers and stuff. But I realize I should have, because even if I don't wind up at Case, ya'll could still be my future classmates.

haha yeah. So should we go to paninis?

[snowpeach06]

This website should really have profile pictures or something so that we can recognize who we've met. Also, some adjustments to the quoting system.

Anyway, I don't know. If we go to Coventry we can all go and talk ad nauseum.

there are a few people at paninis in coventry right now actually, one of the guys who is there just texted me

Ohh, sweet. I didn't even think to like, try and make friends and get numbers and stuff. But I realize I should have, because even if I don't wind up at Case, ya'll could still be my future classmates.

haha yeah. So should we go to paninis?

Uh, I guess. First, help me think of a thesis for my paper so I won't feel so guilty for going. I need to say something about the court sticks to a strict definition of an author as one person, making it all but impossible for joint-authorship. And now i need to think of something about the consequence negative consequences of allowing people who have contributed significantly to work being denied an authorship credit really fast.

You actually don't have to help. But, I was thinking possibly typing out what I was thinking would help me think of something. Are you driving to Coventry? I can't decide if I should, or take the greenie so I can drink.

[angioletto]

FWIW There are 48 people on deans list in my 1L class. I think we have 215 students total. deans list is 3.4+. Since there are a limited amount of grades out, there are a lot of people tied for the same grades.

I thought today was great, although most of what was said I already knew. I did enjoy talking to a couple of professors and introducing myself to the financial aid person whom I have already contacted via e-mail and phone several times over the past few weeks. I thought she might like a face to go with the name. As did I.

It really made me even more excited to start school this fall although I do still feel some concern over the GPA requirements for my scholarship. From what they said today it sounds like top 20-25% is 3.15 and above. Does that sounds right? I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be in the top 20-25% but then again doesn't everyone think they will be towards the top? I guess that sums it up for me - excited to go there but terrified of losing my scholarship.

Thanks. This is just the kind of data I was looking for but I was too afraid to ask the admissions people. I don't want to come off as being all about "free money" but without my scholarship I just cannot attend Case and I guess that is a decision I'd rather make before starting 1L. I know there are no guarantees, even when the data seems promising, but this gives me a much better idea of what to expect.

[sarlis]

uhh, wikipedia that? lol

and yeah I would be driving. So no drinking really for me

[84Sunbird2000]

OK, NM. But I DID meet you, 84Sunbird2000 and I stand by what I told you at lunch - the numbers are a good thing to know but they aren't everything so it just really seemed like you got all riled up over this in a way where you were almost accusing them of hiding/falsifying info. Which maybe they were, but I think that would be something to approch with them individually rather than bringing up in such a way during such a large presentation.

Well, I think that it was more important to bring it up or ask so that everyone could know. I mean, I could always call or email to ask about that, but it seems to me that everyone should know those 2009 stats. And, like I said earlier in this thread, I was on edge because Michigan State so blatantly manipulated their employment numbers yesterday. In fact, there was a thread on here earlier in the week where someone copied an email from a Michigan State prof instructing those who graduated without jobs or law jobs to do things in order to boost their USNews rankings.

So, I didn't mean to make Case out to be the same way, but it makes me distrust academic institutions that I would expect should be faultlessly honest and transparent.

Actually, when you and the two guys left for the clinic fair, I went and talked to the CSO lady and asked all those questions. Apparently, employment at graduation was down around 67% for 2009 Graduates, and the median salary was down a bit as well (though with 82% reporting salary info, which is another big point for transparency and accuracy). She said she'd email the geographic breakdowns, which was fine. I actually had a really nice talk with her and her assistant.

I realize that, as you said, there are more than numbers. But, if you don't have ties to the area (and about 65% of their classes are usually from out-of-state), numbers might be more useful for comparing different schools.

However, I have to say that I enjoyed meeting you during lunch. I had no idea that it was you - I only talked to about 10 people all day, and amazingly enough one was the most prominent TLS Case enthusiast!

[84Sunbird2000]

OKay, so where is Coventry and where in Coventry. I'm at a hotel in Independence (10 miles from Case, at least), and I only have google maps and Mapquest to go on. Driving is no problem.

[snowpeach06]

OKay, so where is Coventry and where in Coventry. I'm at a hotel in Independence (10 miles from Case, at least), and I only have google maps and Mapquest to go on. Driving is no problem.

So, if you know how to get to case - if you are on Euclid, make a right onto Mayfield road. Then drive up through Little Italy. You will reach a traffic light at the top of the hill. It's sort of a right-straight thing. Drive through one traffic light and at the second is Coventry. At the traffic light on that road is a parking garage. Bring coins!

[angioletto]

OK, NM. But I DID meet you, 84Sunbird2000 and I stand by what I told you at lunch - the numbers are a good thing to know but they aren't everything so it just really seemed like you got all riled up over this in a way where you were almost accusing them of hiding/falsifying info. Which maybe they were, but I think that would be something to approch with them individually rather than bringing up in such a way during such a large presentation.

Well, I think that it was more important to bring it up or ask so that everyone could know. I mean, I could always call or email to ask about that, but it seems to me that everyone should know those 2009 stats. And, like I said earlier in this thread, I was on edge because Michigan State so blatantly manipulated their employment numbers yesterday. In fact, there was a thread on here earlier in the week where someone copied an email from a Michigan State prof instructing those who graduated without jobs or law jobs to do things in order to boost their USNews rankings.

So, I didn't mean to make Case out to be the same way, but it makes me distrust academic institutions that I would expect should be faultlessly honest and transparent.

Actually, when you and the two guys left for the clinic fair, I went and talked to the CSO lady and asked all those questions. Apparently, employment at graduation was down around 67% for 2009 Graduates, and the median salary was down a bit as well (though with 82% reporting salary info, which is another big point for transparency and accuracy). She said she'd email the geographic breakdowns, which was fine. I actually had a really nice talk with her and her assistant.

I realize that, as you said, there are more than numbers. But, if you don't have ties to the area (and about 65% of their classes are usually from out-of-state), numbers might be more useful for comparing different schools.

However, I have to say that I enjoyed meeting you during lunch. I had no idea that it was you - I only talked to about 10 people all day, and amazingly enough one was the most prominent TLS Case enthusiast!

I see your point. It is important not to just take everything at face value and to question things that don't seem right. Unfortunately I fear that drops in employment are not Case-specific (pun intended) and there will be similar results everywhere. You are definitely right about a lot of student not having any ties to the school/area. I only met one person from Ohio today.

[snowpeach06]

P.S - I have no idea who to look for at Coventry.

[84Sunbird2000]

OKay, so where is Coventry and where in Coventry. I'm at a hotel in Independence (10 miles from Case, at least), and I only have google maps and Mapquest to go on. Driving is no problem.

So, if you know how to get to case - if you are on Euclid, make a right onto Mayfield road. Then drive up through Little Italy. You will reach a traffic light at the top of the hill. It's sort of a right-straight thing. Drive through one traffic light and at the second is Coventry. At the traffic light on that road is a parking garage. Bring coins!

So, it's Panini's 1825 Coventry Road, Cleveland Heights?