For WUSTL Applicants Forum

[fl0w]

I'm going to stick with Dean Pless' assertion that he thinks waitlist activity this year will be moderate to heavy, because from what I have read on here, a lot of people still have decisions to make between schools at which they have already been accepted.

I wouldn't apply that advice to other schools. Take it and apply it to UIUC. I've gotten letters from other schools for which I am on the waitlist and they indicate that they expect VERY LITTLE waitlist activity.

[finalaspects]

I'm going to stick with Dean Pless' assertion that he thinks waitlist activity this year will be moderate to heavy, because from what I have read on here, a lot of people still have decisions to make between schools at which they have already been accepted.

I wouldn't apply that advice to other schools. Take it and apply it to UIUC. I've gotten letters from other schools for which I am on the waitlist and they indicate that they expect VERY LITTLE waitlist activity.

same most of the schools that i am waitlisted has told me they expect very little as well.

[JCougar]

I'm going to stick with Dean Pless' assertion that he thinks waitlist activity this year will be moderate to heavy, because from what I have read on here, a lot of people still have decisions to make between schools at which they have already been accepted.

I wouldn't apply that advice to other schools. Take it and apply it to UIUC. I've gotten letters from other schools for which I am on the waitlist and they indicate that they expect VERY LITTLE waitlist activity.

That's a good point, but I still think that, in general, we will see a somewhat lower yield, at least from the schools that have seen a dramatic spike in applicants. And lower yield would generally tend to favor people on the waitlist/hold list. It will depend on the school, but it's physically impossible for an applicant pool that is only 4% larger than last year not to have a lower yield rate overall when applications at many top schools are up 20-60%, unless all the extra applications were to schools where the applicants got rejected/yield protected. Schools could have accounted for this already by admitting a higher number of people straight up, but that's risky as well.

[fl0w]

I'm going to stick with Dean Pless' assertion that he thinks waitlist activity this year will be moderate to heavy, because from what I have read on here, a lot of people still have decisions to make between schools at which they have already been accepted.

I wouldn't apply that advice to other schools. Take it and apply it to UIUC. I've gotten letters from other schools for which I am on the waitlist and they indicate that they expect VERY LITTLE waitlist activity.

That's a good point, but I still think that, in general, we will see a somewhat lower yield, at least from the schools that have seen a dramatic spike in applicants. And lower yield would generally tend to favor people on the waitlist/hold list. It will depend on the school, but it's physically impossible for an applicant pool that is only 4% larger than last year not to have a lower yield rate overall when applications at many top schools are up 20-60%, unless all the extra applications were to schools where the applicants got rejected/yield protected. Schools could have accounted for this already by admitting a higher number of people straight up, but that's risky as well.

Bolded the truth. That is especially true at WUSTL where they are in a situation of being OVERcommitted.

[JCougar]

I'm going to stick with Dean Pless' assertion that he thinks waitlist activity this year will be moderate to heavy, because from what I have read on here, a lot of people still have decisions to make between schools at which they have already been accepted.

I wouldn't apply that advice to other schools. Take it and apply it to UIUC. I've gotten letters from other schools for which I am on the waitlist and they indicate that they expect VERY LITTLE waitlist activity.

That's a good point, but I still think that, in general, we will see a somewhat lower yield, at least from the schools that have seen a dramatic spike in applicants. And lower yield would generally tend to favor people on the waitlist/hold list. It will depend on the school, but it's physically impossible for an applicant pool that is only 4% larger than last year not to have a lower yield rate overall when applications at many top schools are up 20-60%, unless all the extra applications were to schools where the applicants got rejected/yield protected. Schools could have accounted for this already by admitting a higher number of people straight up, but that's risky as well.

Bolded the truth. That is especially true at WUSTL where they are in a situation of being OVERcommitted.

But every school over-commits in the expectation that a certain percentage will withdraw. And since there is statistical uncertainy about that percentage, they over-commit on the low end, because taking people of the hold list/waitlist is far more preferable than over-committing a class. So they over-commit on the low end and fill in whatever gap they get with the waitlist.

This cycle, though, a lot of schools are running way behind/taking forever with their applications (especially at my target schools). They're approaching their seat deposit deadline, and they still haven't made decisions on a good chunk of applications (especially Minnesota and Cornell). And many of these people have close to auto-admit numbers. These schools have effectively created a "hold list" of applicants that they can stick in after the seat deposit deadline that they haven't had to waitlist. This gives them a reserve list of applicants who they can admit without really affecting medians at all.

Illinois has been pretty good at getting everyone a decision so far, and they don't have any "hold list," so perhaps they really do mean to take people off the wait list if necessary. Of my other targets, Cornell & Minnesota still have plenty of people who haven't heard anything (effectively being held), WUSTL has a specific hold list, and I've already gotten off Wisconsin's waitlist. So it probably does depend on the school, and what they mean by "waitlist" when they say they intend to take very little people off. If the school has people with good numbers on a hold list or has people with good numbers that haven't gotten any decision yet, yet they also have a waitlist, it may be true that their waitlist will see little activity.

[quadsixm]

This is true. $200 really isn't a lot of money, especially when considered against the security provided by a very substantial scholarship. In my case, I am certainly willing to let the May 1st deadline pass and eat the deposit even if I am not yet sure I'm going to WUSTL.

Now if it were $500, on the other hand, that would be a different story altogether. I think in this regard, Illinois does a better job of ferreting out the "non-serious" admits early... I mean, $500 on April 30 and another $500 on May 21?

I thought there was an ethical issue with putting down multiple deposits with scholarship agreements, or am I wrong?

[najumobi]

This is true. $200 really isn't a lot of money, especially when considered against the security provided by a very substantial scholarship. In my case, I am certainly willing to let the May 1st deadline pass and eat the deposit even if I am not yet sure I'm going to WUSTL.

Now if it were $500, on the other hand, that would be a different story altogether. I think in this regard, Illinois does a better job of ferreting out the "non-serious" admits early... I mean, $500 on April 30 and another $500 on May 21?

I thought there was an ethical issue with putting down multiple deposits with scholarship agreements, or am I wrong?

i don't think there's an issue with being double deposited (scholarship or not) up until June 15th when the names of those who are double deposited are released, at which point you are forced to withdraw from all but one school where you have turned in a deposit.

[jman77]

From the LSAC Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices:

Except under binding early decision plans, every accepted applicant should be free to accept a new offer from a law school even though a deposit has been paid to another school. To provide applicants with an uncoerced choice among various law schools, no excessive nonrefundable deposit should be required solely to maintain a place in the class. Beginning on June 15 of each year, law schools that participate in the Commitment Overlap Service will be provided with information concerning all enrollment commitments to any law school made by those applicants who have indicated an intention to enroll in that school’s entering class. A law school should clearly communicate its policies on multiple enrollment commitments upon admission.

It would appear that there is no general rule, but that each school can stipulate its own conditions. So unless the school you've been accepted to (with or without scholarship) stipulates restrictions on multiple deposits in the offer of admission/scholarship, there does not apear to be any ethical implications.

[ticklememauve]

From the LSAC Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices:

Except under binding early decision plans, every accepted applicant should be free to accept a new offer from a law school even though a deposit has been paid to another school. To provide applicants with an uncoerced choice among various law schools, no excessive nonrefundable deposit should be required solely to maintain a place in the class. Beginning on June 15 of each year, law schools that participate in the Commitment Overlap Service will be provided with information concerning all enrollment commitments to any law school made by those applicants who have indicated an intention to enroll in that school’s entering class. A law school should clearly communicate its policies on multiple enrollment commitments upon admission.

It would appear that there is no general rule, but that each school can stipulate its own conditions. So unless the school you've been accepted to (with or without scholarship) stipulates restrictions on multiple deposits in the offer of admission/scholarship, there does not apear to be any ethical implications.

Thank you so much for posting that!

[jman77]

From the LSAC Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices:

Except under binding early decision plans, every accepted applicant should be free to accept a new offer from a law school even though a deposit has been paid to another school. To provide applicants with an uncoerced choice among various law schools, no excessive nonrefundable deposit should be required solely to maintain a place in the class. Beginning on June 15 of each year, law schools that participate in the Commitment Overlap Service will be provided with information concerning all enrollment commitments to any law school made by those applicants who have indicated an intention to enroll in that school’s entering class. A law school should clearly communicate its policies on multiple enrollment commitments upon admission.

It would appear that there is no general rule, but that each school can stipulate its own conditions. So unless the school you've been accepted to (with or without scholarship) stipulates restrictions on multiple deposits in the offer of admission/scholarship, there does not apear to be any ethical implications.

Thank you so much for posting that!

No problem at all... had to do a bit of research myself since I will probably end up depositing with at least 2-3 schools, so I wanted to make sure I wouldn't be doing anything prohibited. This protracted cycle has just messed up the decision-making process/timetable for so many applicants, myself included.

[quadsixm]

Ah, this makes more sense. I was basing my assertion off of this old thread:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =7&t=23560

But I'm guessing that information is either outdated or incorrect?

[JCougar]

Wisconsin doesn't have a first seat deposit...they have the honor system. I have to let them know by May 3. Which means I will probably feel WORSE if I have to withdraw there. Of course, maybe I'll hear something from WUSTL before then.

[jman77]

Ah, this makes more sense. I was basing my assertion off of this old thread:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =7&t=23560

But I'm guessing that information is either outdated or incorrect?

Just taking a complete guess here (skimmed through the posts)...but perhaps some of those schools in those cases had explicit conditions prohibiting multiple deposits which were communicted to the applicant at the time of admission? In this case, if the applicant accepted the offer, then there would definitely be ethical issues if said applicant deposited at multiple schools.

[quadsixm]

Wisconsin doesn't have a first seat deposit...they have the honor system. I have to let them know by May 3. Which means I will probably feel WORSE if I have to withdraw there. Of course, maybe I'll hear something from WUSTL before then.

Let's hope so! I like your positive thinking

[ilovelamp18]

Withdrew this afternoon. $120k back in the mix. Best wishes all!

[expungemalice]

this radio silence is deafening... has anyone on the Hold list heard anything yet? How large is the hold list in comparison to the waitlist? Probably smaller, but how much so?

[JCougar]

this radio silence is deafening... has anyone on the Hold list heard anything yet? How large is the hold list in comparison to the waitlist? Probably smaller, but how much so?

No one has heard anything, but we may soon. Presumably, a good chunk of people will be asking for their deposits back in the next day or so in order to get their refund.

Right now, the class is over-enrolled, and they are over-committed scholarship-wise. Nobody knows how over-enrolled they are right now, though, unless you work in the WUSTL admissions office. It may take only a handful of withdrawls to open up some spots, or it may take dozens.

There's been a steady stream of withdrawls on LSN over the last 3 weeks or so, but the school over-admitted in expectation of this.

Also, there's quite a few people on here that are planning on forgoing the $200 and hanging on to their seat until they hear from other schools' waitlists, or until they hear about scholarship money from elsewhere. We may not hear until after June 1.

[ticklememauve]

this radio silence is deafening... has anyone on the Hold list heard anything yet? How large is the hold list in comparison to the waitlist? Probably smaller, but how much so?

No one has heard anything, but we may soon. Presumably, a good chunk of people will be asking for their deposits back in the next day or so in order to get their refund.

Right now, the class is over-enrolled, and they are over-committed scholarship-wise. Nobody knows how over-enrolled they are right now, though, unless you work in the WUSTL admissions office. It may take only a handful of withdrawls to open up some spots, or it may take dozens.

There's been a steady stream of withdrawls on LSN over the last 3 weeks or so, but the school over-admitted in expectation of this.

Also, there's quite a few people on here that are planning on forgoing the $200 and hanging on to their seat until they hear from other schools' waitlists, or until they hear about scholarship money from elsewhere. We may not hear until after June 1.

I hate to say it, but I'm ready to wait until June. Come on WUSTL: I want you, I need you. Please take me [off the WL]!

[JCougar]

this radio silence is deafening... has anyone on the Hold list heard anything yet? How large is the hold list in comparison to the waitlist? Probably smaller, but how much so?

No one has heard anything, but we may soon. Presumably, a good chunk of people will be asking for their deposits back in the next day or so in order to get their refund.

Right now, the class is over-enrolled, and they are over-committed scholarship-wise. Nobody knows how over-enrolled they are right now, though, unless you work in the WUSTL admissions office. It may take only a handful of withdrawls to open up some spots, or it may take dozens.

There's been a steady stream of withdrawls on LSN over the last 3 weeks or so, but the school over-admitted in expectation of this.

Also, there's quite a few people on here that are planning on forgoing the $200 and hanging on to their seat until they hear from other schools' waitlists, or until they hear about scholarship money from elsewhere. We may not hear until after June 1.

I hate to say it, but I'm ready to wait until June. Come on WUSTL: I want you, I need you. Please take me [off the WL]!

Pending a surprise scholarship offer from Illinois or Minnesota, I'm prepared to wait until the first day of classes.

[finalaspects]

this radio silence is deafening... has anyone on the Hold list heard anything yet? How large is the hold list in comparison to the waitlist? Probably smaller, but how much so?

No one has heard anything, but we may soon. Presumably, a good chunk of people will be asking for their deposits back in the next day or so in order to get their refund.

Right now, the class is over-enrolled, and they are over-committed scholarship-wise. Nobody knows how over-enrolled they are right now, though, unless you work in the WUSTL admissions office. It may take only a handful of withdrawls to open up some spots, or it may take dozens.

There's been a steady stream of withdrawls on LSN over the last 3 weeks or so, but the school over-admitted in expectation of this.

Also, there's quite a few people on here that are planning on forgoing the $200 and hanging on to their seat until they hear from other schools' waitlists, or until they hear about scholarship money from elsewhere. We may not hear until after June 1.

I hate to say it, but I'm ready to wait until June. Come on WUSTL: I want you, I need you. Please take me [off the WL]!

Pending a surprise scholarship offer from Illinois or Minnesota, I'm prepared to wait until the first day of classes.

i need one day before classes but its only because im on the west coast.

[ticklememauve]

Pending a surprise scholarship offer from Illinois or Minnesota, I'm prepared to wait until the first day of classes.

i need one day before classes but its only because im on the west coast.

True, true! I can wait past June. But . . . hopefully we'll see some held/WL action by then. Hopefully.

[quadsixm]

I'll be waiting until Aug!

[JCougar]

I'll be waiting until Aug!

Did you get in anywhere else? Fallback plan?

...actually, that question goes for all waiting this one out.

[quadsixm]

I'll be waiting until Aug!

Did you get in anywhere else? Fallback plan?

...actually, that question goes for all waiting this one out.

Yep, I'm deposited at W&L for the fall. Also waiting out GW. I am on the West Coast, so the logistics of moving all of my belongings and finding a place to live makes waiting a little more difficult. Especially since I will visiting home (away from the states) for most of the summer, and leaving my belongings in storage.

[romothesavior]

I'm really pulling for quad and Jcougar. Might even call the admissions office and tell them to admit you guys.