WUSTL c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013) Forum

[dproduct]

Oh shit, I wonder what I wasted my 10k on? Probably commenting on a PW. OH well.

I know the feeling....my 2k was wasted on dowu last night.....

I literally lol'd when you realized it.

[dougfunny]

Waking up this morning to no thread activity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O1hM-k3aUY&t=0m9s

[Unoriginalist]

Actually does anybody know how many matriculants WUSTL is targeting for this year's class? C/O 2012 was 300 but haven't they slashed class size every year since? That's probably not good news for anybody who hasn't been accepted yet, but is probably good news for jerbs.

Yeah they've SERIOUSLY slashed class size since then. Expect that biglaw % to increase over the next few years (even if the real number of people getting those jobs stays about the same.)

Came here to say this +1

The thought has crossed my mind before that with WUSTLs new admissions strategy (interviews, etc) and with a hopefully very generous round of scholarships, I could see Wash U having a bigger yield than they're expecting this year, and getting a class over the 200 they're aiming for.

But I hope not.

[DoveBodyWash]

Sighhh...at the risk of sounding like a shameless WUSTL troll who's desperately trying to defend WUSTL's less than desirable placement...

People should keep in mind that NLJ 250 doesn't necessarily equal high salary..and that there are certain flaws to this survey. This applies to all schools. Some firms don't reply to these, there are firms that are smaller but pay a shit-ton (e.g. Paul Weiss..and other boutiques..), and in the case of many T14 schools there are grads who went to clerkships and will join firms after or year or two, these clerks aren't included in these surveys. This doesn't mean WUSTL's placement would be better or something, since it doesn't send a lot of ppl into clerkships. But just something to keep in mind when looking at these.

If you look at the ABA report for each school, it breaks down grad placement by firm size. Not that it's a completely reliable measure of salary, but it might help those who aren't interested in BigLaw try and gauge how the MidLaw/Small-Law placement is like at individual schools.

It's also true that WUSTL's class in this report is 100 students larger than the current 1L class. They've been cutting students every year. So assuming that WUSTL's placement power stays the same, the percentage rank should just go up with time as a result of smaller class sizes.

Also. There is a firm based in Indianapolis called Ice Miller

[Unoriginalist]

Sighhh...at the risk of sounding like a shameless WUSTL troll who's desperately trying to defend WUSTL's less than desirable placement...

People should keep in mind that NLJ 250 doesn't necessarily equal high salary..and that there are certain flaws to this survey. This applies to all schools. Some firms don't reply to these, there are firms that are smaller but pay a shit-ton (e.g. Paul Weiss..and other boutiques..), and in the case of many T14 schools there are grads who went to clerkships and will join firms after or year or two, these clerks aren't included in these surveys. This doesn't mean WUSTL's placement would be better or something, since it doesn't send a lot of ppl into clerkships. But just something to keep in mind when looking at these.

If you look at the ABA report for each school, it breaks down grad placement by firm size. Not that it's a completely reliable measure of salary, but it might help those who aren't interested in BigLaw try and gauge how the MidLaw/Small-Law placement is like at individual schools.

It's also true that WUSTL's class in this report is 100 students larger than the current 1L class. They've been cutting students every year. So assuming that WUSTL's placement power stays the same, the percentage rank should just go up with time as a result of smaller class sizes.

Also. There is a firm based in Indianapolis called Ice Miller

+1 to everything with the understanding that shameless WUSTL trolling is more than encouraged in the WUSTL megathread that is the c/o 2016 applicants thread.

Solid analysis, thanks! It always struck me as odd, though, that Wash U's art iii clerkship rate is as low as it is. Any idea why that might be?

[DoveBodyWash]

Solid analysis, thanks! It always struck me as odd, though, that Wash U's art iii clerkship rate is as low as it is. Any idea why that might be?

It's actually not that low considering it's place in the hierarchy. Federal clerkships are limited and hiring is presTTTTTige driven. HYSCC generally dominate article III clerkships.

For some comparison:
(source LST)
Northwestern: 8%
Notre Dame: 5.3%
UIUC: 4.7%
UCLA: 4.4%
USC: 4.3 %
BC: 3.9%
WUSTL: 3.8%
UC-Hastings: 1.9%
BU: 1.8%

Once you adjust for class sizes, almost all these schools (minus NU on the high end and BU on the low end) send a similar number of grads into A3 clerkships. FWIW WUSTL has the largest class size out of all these schools for this particular data sample, which probably watered down its percentage. The percentage should go up, like NLJ 250 placement, just as a result of smaller classes.

[Big Dog]

^^you forgot the outlier, 'Cuse.

UCIrvine placed a third of its (small) class into clerkships.

People should keep in mind that NLJ 250 doesn't necessarily equal high salary...

Yeah, it generally does. But the broader point -- I think -- is that Big Law (and Art. III) gives one the only rational way to pay off loans at sticker. But since WashU is gonna shower moolah on its biggest cheerleader, you have nothing to worry about.

[Dmini7]

^^you forgot the outlier, 'Cuse.

UCIrvine placed a third of its (small) class into clerkships.

I think he didn't include that on purpose. Although I am not sure how he chose the schools. At first I thought it was schools within a zone of the ranking, but Hastings busts that one for me.

[DoveBodyWash]

.

[DoveBodyWash]

^^you forgot the outlier, 'Cuse.

UCIrvine placed a third of its (small) class into clerkships.

I think he didn't include that on purpose. Although I am not sure how he chose the schools. At first I thought it was schools within a zone of the ranking, but Hastings busts that one for me.

I picked the schools just based on the other schools that i know other ppl in this thread are considering, so I admit it can seem arbitrary. And yea I left UCI out cuz it's too soon to analyze their results.

[wannabelawstudent]

I think that guy should go to GW

[BigZuck]

HYSCC generally dominate article III clerkships.

Disgustingly flagrant anti-D trolling.

So over-under on scholarship release day? Sorry if this was recently discussed, I haven't really read the last ten pages or so. I'm guessing the line should be set at Friday?

[DoveBodyWash]

HYSCC generally dominate article III clerkships.

Disgustingly flagrant anti-D trolling.

So over-under on scholarship release day? Sorry if this was recently discussed, I haven't really read the last ten pages or so. I'm guessing the line should be set at Friday?

Lol my bad, I was just spitballing. My guess is Thursday or maybe Wednesday. They'll take Monday/Tuesday to regroup after the storm and finalize details

[slawww]

So assuming that WUSTL's placement power stays the same, the percentage rank should just go up with time as a result of smaller class sizes.

I'd have to disagree with this. Just because the class is smaller, that doesn't mean that the employment percentage will go up. Assuming class rank is the significant factor in determining employment prospects, the class size shouldn't affect the percentage of employed grads. Whether there's 10 or 200 grads half will be above median, and half below. And those in the bottom of the class will, presumably, have trouble finding employment. Because of the curve, in my opinion, class size probably won't affect the percentage of employed grads. Employers will still be looking for grads in the upper portions of their class, regardless of class size.

[Jaqen]

Wait what financial aid form were y'all talking about? WUSTL has a school specific one?

[DoveBodyWash]

So assuming that WUSTL's placement power stays the same, the percentage rank should just go up with time as a result of smaller class sizes.

I'd have to disagree with this. Just because the class is smaller, that doesn't mean that the employment percentage will go up. Assuming class rank is the significant factor in determining employment prospects, the class size shouldn't affect the percentage of employed grads. Whether there's 10 or 200 grads half will be above median, and half below. And those in the bottom of the class will, presumably, have trouble finding employment. Because of the curve, in my opinion, class size probably won't affect the percentage of employed grads. Employers will still be looking for grads in the upper portions of their class, regardless of class size.

True, that's why I said "assuming placement power stays the same".

Outgoing transfers will also have an impact

[wannabelawstudent]

Cuse.....other under on the date of my acceptance......maybe we should start a thread pool

[BigZuck]

So assuming that WUSTL's placement power stays the same, the percentage rank should just go up with time as a result of smaller class sizes.

I'd have to disagree with this. Just because the class is smaller, that doesn't mean that the employment percentage will go up. Assuming class rank is the significant factor in determining employment prospects, the class size shouldn't affect the percentage of employed grads. Whether there's 10 or 200 grads half will be above median, and half below. And those in the bottom of the class will, presumably, have trouble finding employment. Because of the curve, in my opinion, class size probably won't affect the percentage of employed grads. Employers will still be looking for grads in the upper portions of their class, regardless of class size.

Depends on if employers as a whole want, say, the top 20% of WUSTL for their big law jobs (random number, don't flame me bro!) or if they need, say, 60 WUSTL kids to work in their big law jobs.

[slawww]

Depends on if employers as a whole want, say, the top 20% of WUSTL for their big law jobs (random number, don't flame me bro!) or if they need, say, 60 WUSTL kids to work in their big law jobs.

Definitely valid. It just seems like in this economy it's all about class rank; at least from what I've heard.

[BigZuck]

HYSCC generally dominate article III clerkships.

Disgustingly flagrant anti-D trolling.

So over-under on scholarship release day? Sorry if this was recently discussed, I haven't really read the last ten pages or so. I'm guessing the line should be set at Friday?

Lol my bad, I was just spitballing. My guess is Thursday or maybe Wednesday. They'll take Monday/Tuesday to regroup after the storm and finalize details

NP, I just know Duke was 4th last year after HYS. No idea if they historically are that high and probably just a function of a tiny class size.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Wait what financial aid form were y'all talking about? WUSTL has a school specific one?

https://law.wustl.edu/admissions/wuform ... alInfo.asp

[DoveBodyWash]

I think LST does a good job of framing the context of the data:
(actual results are posted here as well)

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... tatistics/

In any case...as with the U.S News rankings..people shouldn't completely rely on these rankings at face value. Every school is in different market conditions, has different class sizes, has a surplus/lack of IP students that inflate/deflate their placement, and is influenced differently by self-selection.

Re: IP programs,
IP isn't like a concentration/major that you can just opt into. There is a barrier to entry. You need a hard science degree (B.S./ M.S./ Ph.D) in order to sit for the Patent Bar. It doesn't matter if GW has a great IP program and another school has a shitty one. U.S. News calculates those specialty rankings based on available classes and what not. Those "specialty classes" only kick-in when you're a 2L/3L and by then OCI/BigLaw recruitment has already happened. If you have a science background, then you can pursue IP. If not, then you can still try and enter IP, but you'll be limited as far as what you're legally licensed to do. I repeat, IP is not something any law student can just opt into, and going to a school that has a "top ranked IP program" really isn't as significant as some of these schools claim it is.

(Not directed at any one poster, but I see a lot of 0L's gush about specialty rankings and I hear way too many english majors claim that they're gonna be fine because they're gonna go into IP)

[wannabelawstudent]

Wow I didn't know that about IP....

[DoveBodyWash]

Gonna re-post it on this page as well, so it's not stuck at the end of the last page.

Re: IP programs,
IP isn't like a concentration/major that you can just opt into. There is a barrier to entry. You need a hard science degree (B.S./ M.S./ Ph.D) in order to sit for the Patent Bar. It doesn't matter if GW has a great IP program and another school has a shitty one. U.S. News calculates those specialty rankings based on available classes and what not. Those "specialty classes" only kick-in when you're a 2L/3L and by then OCI/BigLaw recruitment has already happened. If you have a science background, then you can pursue IP. If not, then you can still try and enter IP, but you'll be limited as far as what you're legally licensed to do. I repeat, IP is not something any law student can just opt into, and going to a school that has a "top ranked IP program" really isn't as significant as some of these schools claim it is.

(Not directed at any one poster, but I see a lot of 0L's gush about specialty rankings and I hear way too many english majors claim that they're gonna be fine because they're gonna go into IP)

[Crowing]

A3 is within federal. Not all federal clerkships are A3.

ETA: And yeah IP is the only thing now that makes me not hate my STEM major that killed my gpa