American U Forum

[PitchO20]

When are people who got wait-listed sending in their LOCI?

[gatorlion]

When are people who got wait-listed sending in their LOCI?

I emailed mine to my admissions counselor about 45 minutes after receiving the WL email.

[Agent Bartowski]

I just found something in my notes after I visited WCL. Merit based awards are given to people with a minimum of 165 and 3.6. So, sticker for me!

[ATOIsp07]

I just found something in my notes after I visited WCL. Merit based awards are given to people with a minimum of 165 and 3.6. So, sticker for me!

How'd you like your visit overall? Did you sit in any classes or just take a tour? I'm asking since I haven't had the chance to visit yet.

[traehekat]

I just found something in my notes after I visited WCL. Merit based awards are given to people with a minimum of 165 and 3.6. So, sticker for me!

That is unfortunate, last cycle I think they were giving out money to 164 3.4-3.5. I was hoping for a little something, obviously nothing huge though.

How was the visit? Do you live near the DC area?

[NaiveHope]

Hey, I was waitlisted and I filled out my WL form. Do I need to e-mail that to my admissions counselor as well or do we submit it online?

[thepcv]

I just found something in my notes after I visited WCL. Merit based awards are given to people with a minimum of 165 and 3.6. So, sticker for me!

That's definitely unfortunate. Only way I can justify WCL is if they offer some sort of award/scholly. Do you know if that's a hard absolute (the "minimum" makes it seem so, but the ever hopeful in me just wants to find a way to believe otherwise)?

[insertclevernamehere]

Anyone who applied for the PIPS scholarship a little unsettled by the fact they have extended the deadline until the 29th?

If you had 10 great candidates you would think you would call it a day...

[jmhendri]

I can't believe yet another week of bupkis has passed.

[Sarahnade48]

I'm from NYC and have been accepted to WCL. Can anyone tell me if WCL is considered a regional or a national law school? I am looking to find a job in NYC post-grad. Thanks!

[sirchristaylor]

I'm from NYC and have been accepted to WCL. Can anyone tell me if WCL is considered a regional or a national law school? I am looking to find a job in NYC post-grad. Thanks!

I'm pretty sure it's a mostly regional school but may have limited national portability outside of Biglaw.

[ATOIsp07]

I'm from NYC and have been accepted to WCL. Can anyone tell me if WCL is considered a regional or a national law school? I am looking to find a job in NYC post-grad. Thanks!

I'm pretty sure it's a mostly regional school but may have limited national portability outside of Biglaw.

Actually, according to the TLS review of the school, it's a regional school that places "fairly well" all over the country. According to my accumulated info:
S. Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV): 71%
Mid-Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA): 16%
Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI, IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD, AL, KY, MS, TN, AR, LA, OK, TX): 5%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA): 3%
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT): 2%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY): 2%
Foreign (outside of US): 1%

so, outside the South Atlantic area (ie-DC), most graduates from WCL place in NY, NJ or PA. so you wouldn't be bad off at all were you to attend and search from employment in NY. however, it is NY and competition for employment there is almost as bad as DC's.

hth!

[FunkyJD]

I'm from NYC and have been accepted to WCL. Can anyone tell me if WCL is considered a regional or a national law school? I am looking to find a job in NYC post-grad. Thanks!

I suppose it's possible, but hardly the optimal choice for your goals. Wouldn't Cardozo or BLS be a better fit within the same rankings ballpark? And WCL is not cheap. It would suck to pay $40k a year for a degree that might not get you back to NYC. Not that Cardozo or BLS are cheap, but at least those schools are in your desired market.

I just have a hard time believing that a school that's the fourth best option, at best (behind GULC, UVa, and GW), in its own market is going to do much for you in NYC. Maybe they place 16% in NY, NJ, and PA, but I'd sure want to see a more detailed breakdown than that before making a decision. What types of placements are those jobs? And what portion of that 16% is specifically in NYC? 10%? 1%?

Maybe peruse the directories of the firms or agencies you might want to work for, and sample to see how many of the attorneys there are WCL alum. Maybe also talk to attorneys and other legal professionals in the City to get a feeling for WCL's rep there. Good luck.

[ATOIsp07]

I'm from NYC and have been accepted to WCL. Can anyone tell me if WCL is considered a regional or a national law school? I am looking to find a job in NYC post-grad. Thanks!

I suppose it's possible, but hardly the optimal choice for your goals. Wouldn't Cardozo or BLS be a better fit within the same rankings ballpark? And WCL is not cheap. It would suck to pay $40k a year for a degree that might not get you back to NYC. Not that Cardozo or BLS are cheap, but at least those schools are in your desired market.

I just have a hard time believing that a school that's the fourth best option, at best (behind GULC, UVa, and GW), in its own market is going to do much for you in NYC. Maybe they place 16% in NY, NJ, and PA, but I'd sure want to see a more detailed breakdown than that before making a decision. What types of placements are those jobs? And what portion of that 16% is specifically in NYC? 10%? 1%?

Maybe peruse the directories of the firms or agencies you might want to work for, and sample to see how many of the attorneys there are WCL alum. Maybe also talk to attorneys and other legal professionals in the City to get a feeling for WCL's rep there. Good luck.

In DC, WCL's the 3rd best. this is not counting UVA because you can throw in ANY T14 school in any respective legal market and mess up/confuse the ranking of schools in doing so. We could say that GULC is the 3rd best option were we to throw in Harvard & Yale. Or we could say it's the 4th best if we keep Harvard and Yale and also throw in Northwestern. See where I'm going with this? To summarize on a school's ranking in an area as you have is quite disingenuous, to say the least.

The point of mentioning the 16% in NY, NJ and PA is to show that, as a regional school, a significant portion of WCL do well enough to pursue careers in that area. And those stats from earlier are, indeed, true. I stated them to show the OP that he could, with effort and dedication, follow suit of the 16%ers and practice in that region dominated by NYC. And, for some reason, I believe that the majority of the 16% are practicing in NY/NJ than PA. either way, the OP has a fair chance of practicing in that region.

[FunkyJD]

I'm from NYC and have been accepted to WCL. Can anyone tell me if WCL is considered a regional or a national law school? I am looking to find a job in NYC post-grad. Thanks!

I suppose it's possible, but hardly the optimal choice for your goals. Wouldn't Cardozo or BLS be a better fit within the same rankings ballpark? And WCL is not cheap. It would suck to pay $40k a year for a degree that might not get you back to NYC. Not that Cardozo or BLS are cheap, but at least those schools are in your desired market.

I just have a hard time believing that a school that's the fourth best option, at best (behind GULC, UVa, and GW), in its own market is going to do much for you in NYC. Maybe they place 16% in NY, NJ, and PA, but I'd sure want to see a more detailed breakdown than that before making a decision. What types of placements are those jobs? And what portion of that 16% is specifically in NYC? 10%? 1%?

Maybe peruse the directories of the firms or agencies you might want to work for, and sample to see how many of the attorneys there are WCL alum. Maybe also talk to attorneys and other legal professionals in the City to get a feeling for WCL's rep there. Good luck.

In DC, WCL's the 3rd best. this is not counting UVA because you can throw in ANY T14 school in any respective legal market and mess up/confuse the ranking of schools in doing so.

Granted, I see your larger point, but how can you not count UVa? It's clearly a part of the Washington market, given its proximity. It's why I said WCL is "the fourth best option, at best." In actual practice, WCL will not be the 3rd best option in the DC market. You could make a case than Howard gives you a better shot at Biglaw in DC than WCL.

The point of mentioning the 16% in NY, NJ and PA is to show that, as a regional school, a significant portion of WCL do well enough to pursue careers in that area. And those stats from earlier are, indeed, true. I stated them to show the OP that he could, with effort and dedication, follow suit of the 16%ers and practice in that region dominated by NYC. And, for some reason, I believe that the majority of the 16% are practicing in NY/NJ than PA. either way, the OP has a fair chance of practicing in that region.

Not saying that OP can't make it to NYC from WCL. Just saying that the stats you provided don't make the case that the odds are good. If 16 percent of WCL students end up the region, 84 percent don't -- and we still don't know for sure how many of the 16 percent who do place in the region actually end up in NYC, as opposed to say, Philly -- or how big the sample size even is.

Why would OP go to WCL and not Cardozo or BLS for New York, especially since those schools will get dibs before WCL gets a sniff there -- and BLS is ranked 16 points lower than WCL. Even with that ranking being the case, ABA data shows that BLS still places a slightly higher percentage of their students in Biglaw than WCL. What's that say about WCL's pull?

[Agent Bartowski]

How'd you like your visit overall? Did you sit in any classes or just take a tour? I'm asking since I haven't had the chance to visit yet.

That is unfortunate, last cycle I think they were giving out money to 164 3.4-3.5. I was hoping for a little something, obviously nothing huge though.

How was the visit? Do you live near the DC area?

Scholly:
Yeah... Makes me wish I had cared senior year and saved my GPA... Maybe this year they wont have enough awesome apps? -Fingers crossed-

Visit:
To be honest I though the campus was odd. MY least favorite physical plant of all the DC schools. The students were friendly and the tour was scattered but nice. Facility has everything you'd need. Honestly, nothing special but nothing awful. Faculty I met were cool enough. All comes down to $ and placement for me.

The school itself is separated from the rest of American and is kind of awkwardly placed in a pretty suburban area of NW DC. Not quite the integrated feel of GW or Catholic. Closer to GMU in Arlington, but that place felt like a hospital.

Happy to answer any questions.

[ATOIsp07]

Granted, I see your larger point, but how can you not count UVa? It's clearly a part of the Washington market, given its proximity. It's why I said WCL is "the fourth best option, at best." In actual practice, WCL will not be the 3rd best option in the DC market. You could make a case than Howard gives you a better shot at Biglaw in DC than WCL.

The point of mentioning the 16% in NY, NJ and PA is to show that, as a regional school, a significant portion of WCL do well enough to pursue careers in that area. And those stats from earlier are, indeed, true. I stated them to show the OP that he could, with effort and dedication, follow suit of the 16%ers and practice in that region dominated by NYC. And, for some reason, I believe that the majority of the 16% are practicing in NY/NJ than PA. either way, the OP has a fair chance of practicing in that region.

Not saying that OP can't make it to NYC from WCL. Just saying that the stats you provided don't make the case that the odds are good. If 16 percent of WCL students end up the region, 84 percent don't -- and we still don't know for sure how many of the 16 percent who do place in the region actually end up in NYC, as opposed to say, Philly -- or how big the sample size even is.

Why would OP go to WCL and not Cardozo or BLS for New York, especially since those schools will get dibs before WCL gets a sniff there -- and BLS is ranked 16 points lower than WCL. Even with that ranking being the case, ABA data shows that BLS still places a slightly higher percentage of their students in Biglaw than WCL. What's that say about WCL's pull?[/quote]


Your first point, with exception for the case of URMs, Howard would certainly not be a superior choice to WCL and I'll go out on a limb to assume that sarahnade is not a URM. if this was the case, BIGLAW considered, why is Howard still a T3? there's no getting around the fact the fact that for DC schools, the hierarchy is: GTown, GW, American, Catholic, Howard, UDC. That's what it is! And, generally speaking, WCL places very well in DC despite being in that competitive market. Most students remain in DC and do well for themselves. And anyone who's visited DC and is familiar with the legal market would tell you that American is actually very well respected from within. The equivalent of American in NY is probably Cardozo, anyways.

Your second point: I never said WCL would be a better option for practicing in NY than Cardozo and Brooklyn. I just wanted to remind sarahnade that going to WCL certainly doesn't kill your chances/hopes of practicing in NY. But, even without money, were I sure that I wanted to practice in NY, I would certainly prefer Cardozo/Brooklyn to WCL, despite their lower rankings. That's just common sense. So, I think, overall, we do agree except for our opinions on WCL.

BTW, sarahnade, they're all wonderful schools and, assuming you do well and graduate from these schools, there'll be plenty of doors open for you!

hth!

[sirchristaylor]

On another note, what is taking them so long to send out the next batch of decisions?

[eam829]

I'm from NYC and have been accepted to WCL. Can anyone tell me if WCL is considered a regional or a national law school? I am looking to find a job in NYC post-grad. Thanks!

I suppose it's possible, but hardly the optimal choice for your goals. Wouldn't Cardozo or BLS be a better fit within the same rankings ballpark? And WCL is not cheap. It would suck to pay $40k a year for a degree that might not get you back to NYC. Not that Cardozo or BLS are cheap, but at least those schools are in your desired market.

I just have a hard time believing that a school that's the fourth best option, at best (behind GULC, UVa, and GW), in its own market is going to do much for you in NYC. Maybe they place 16% in NY, NJ, and PA, but I'd sure want to see a more detailed breakdown than that before making a decision. What types of placements are those jobs? And what portion of that 16% is specifically in NYC? 10%? 1%?

Maybe peruse the directories of the firms or agencies you might want to work for, and sample to see how many of the attorneys there are WCL alum. Maybe also talk to attorneys and other legal professionals in the City to get a feeling for WCL's rep there. Good luck.

In DC, WCL's the 3rd best. this is not counting UVA because you can throw in ANY T14 school in any respective legal market and mess up/confuse the ranking of schools in doing so. We could say that GULC is the 3rd best option were we to throw in Harvard & Yale. Or we could say it's the 4th best if we keep Harvard and Yale and also throw in Northwestern. See where I'm going with this? To summarize on a school's ranking in an area as you have is quite disingenuous, to say the least.

I have a friend who graduated from WCL last year and decided to practice in NYC after. Though I don't know how well he did grade-wise at WCL, he basically urged me to go almost anywhere in NYC (Fordham, Cardozo, Brooklyn) instead of WCL if I wanted to work here after grad. He was jobless in NYC for most of last year and only recently settled in with a non BigLaw firm. He basically told me that even though Brooklyn is ranked lower, you'd probably have an easier time finding a job in NYC than if you were coming from American. Apparently he got into Fordham and chose American for a change of pace (he did his undergrad in NYC), but said now he seriously regrets it.

Like I said, I have no idea how well he did academically at WCL, but it's definitely food for thought if you intend to practice in NYC.

[FunkyJD]

Your first point, with exception for the case of URMs, Howard would certainly not be a superior choice to WCL and I'll go out on a limb to assume that sarahnade is not a URM. if this was the case, BIGLAW considered, why is Howard still a T3?

Because there are more factors that go into rankings than Biglaw placement, as I'm sure you're aware.

there's no getting around the fact the fact that for DC schools, the hierarchy is: GTown, GW, American, Catholic, Howard, UDC. That's what it is!

Okay. Red is blue then, if you say so.

And anyone who's visited DC and is familiar with the legal market would tell you that American is actually very well respected from within.

FWIW, I used to live in the DC area for 20+ years, and worked in government. But maybe you know better about how these schools are viewed than me. The argument isn't whether you can have a career in DC by going to WCL. It's about your perception of how WCL should be viewed versus other schools.

[umichgrad]

I work at a V25 law firm in DC, and of the partners here, the breakdown of those from DC-area schools (INCLUDING UVA, W&M, and UMD) is approx. 29 GW, 20 Gtown, 13 UVA, 10 WCL, 5 Catholic, 5 W&M, 0 Howard, 0 UMD, 0 GMU and 0 UDC.

Keep in mind that's partners only, of the associates there are many more from all the DC area schools. So I would say that WCL places nearly as well in DC biglaw as UVA and better than W&M and Catholic (obviously using a very small sample). Many more UVA and GULC grads go to new york, atlanta, etc than do WCL grads.

[viro8]

I have been waitlisted at WCL. Is it appropriate to send an additional LOR even though I included 2 (the stated limit) with my application? Thanks.

[traehekat]

I have been waitlisted at WCL. Is it appropriate to send an additional LOR even though I included 2 (the stated limit) with my application? Thanks.

Good question! My first instinct said go ahead and send it, but after a moment a reflection, perhaps you should check with the admissions office first.

[FunkyJD]

FWIW ... Here's another small sample of DC firms (NoVa offices not counted):

Williams & Connolly
Associates: UVa (12), GULC (15), GW (5), W&L (1), WCL (0)
Partners: GULC (17), UVa (13), WCL (0)

Hogan + Hartson
Associates: GULC (22), GW (19), UVa (16), Catholic (13), WCL (12), Mason (1), W&L (2)
Partners: GULC (stopped counting after 40), UVa (31), GW (19), Catholic (4), WCL (4), W&L (2), Mason (1), Howard (1)

Akin Gump
Associates: GULC (11), GW (5), Catholic (5), GW (5), UVa (3), WCL (3), Mason (1), Howard (1), W&L (1)
Partners: GULC (15), GW (10), Catholic (8), WCL (6), UVa (4), W&M (2), Mason (1)

Going to the point ... I'm not understanding ATO's logic as to why UVa shouldn't be counted as part of the DC market. The theory doesn't match the reality. (Of course, if we're talking about DC schools narrowly defined, as in, "only schools that are physically located within the 68 sq miles of Washington, DC," perhaps his hierarchy holds water. I just don't find that to be a useful way to consider the schools that directly feed into the DC market.) Of course T14 schools are national, but how can UVa be considered as not part of the DC market, given its proximity? Are Northwestern & UC not part of Chicago's market just because they're NU and UC? Does the order in Chicago go UIUC, ND, IUB, Kent, DePaul just because NU and UC are T10?

Umichgrad is right that many UVa grads opt to work outside of the DC market ... but if I were a WCL grad looking to work in the DC market, and UVa grads were gunning for the same jobs as me, I'd be very aware that they were part of the DC market. Hell, depending on the firm where I was applying, I'd also watch those sneaky Catholic grads!

[ATOIsp07]

Going to the main point ... I'm not understanding ATO's logic as to why UVa shouldn't be counted as part of the DC market. The theory doesn't match the reality. Of course T14 schools are national, but how can UVa be considered as not part of the DC market, given its proximity? Are Northwestern & UC not part of Chicago's market just because they're NU and UC? Does the order in Chicago go UIUC, ND, IUB, Kent, DePaul just because NU and UC are T10?

A.) remember, you just provided a small sample of the hundreds of firms in DC. i wouldn't be expecting to base an opinion of a school based on what you just provided.
B.) WCL is geared more towards Govt., Interational Law, Public Interest, Non-Profit, etc. as opposed to BigLaw, which is apparently everyone's big obsession here on TLS. This (along with its egregious tuition) might be a reason it gets knocked as well on this site.
C.) going back to my previous point that I made posting earlier in this thread, G'town might as well not be the biggest fish in the DC pond for the fact that, arguably outside of NY, DC is the biggest legal market in the country. So, in this respect, T14 graduates probably swarm there for employment, much like they would for NY. and, by the way, UVA places more graduates in NY...would you consider the school part of the NY market as well...probably the 3rd best (after NYU and Columbia)?

I understand that WCL isn't the best option in DC; it probably might never be. but i really think people underestimate how good of a school WCL is and its extensive network in DC and, actually, all over the country. You can knock WCL all you want but don't go around saying it's lesser than Howard and imply that Catholic could be better as well. there's a reason why it's in the T50 (#45) and its ranking has been steadily improving over the years. i actually predict that in 2-3 years' time, it'll leap over GMU, FWIW. obviously WCL is doing something correct!