Michigan ED Applicants Forum

[Vincent Vega]

What could their reasoning possibly be for stringing us out this long? Are the extra couple days really going to matter that much in their decision?

[Veritas]

I'm ok waiting, just 3 more days. Then we will know!

[uofmsbiggestfan]

Do you think they will call with acceptances next week and just change the status checker to deferred for everyone else? As per the ED contract, do we have to have an actual decision (in/def/wl/out) on the 15th or do they have to send out decisions by that date?

[bowie8285]

.

[Veritas]

in her interview Dean Z mentioned that applications were DOWN in this year where other school's are seeing record increases...perhaps in part because the state of michigan is in economic decline and is attracting less students. could this spell a decline for michigan? dropping out of the T14 eventually? is it a solid investment to pay sticker for michigan?

wtf?

I'm really hoping you are being facetious with this.

[bowie8285]

.

[Veritas]

now i'm being serious.....if there are less applicants, and they are accepting applicants of a lesser quality (like me), their #s would go down...and they might be pushed down due to their location etc where people start preferring other schools....this is a long term kind of question

I don't think there's any merit to those thoughts.

Schools fluctuate in application amounts from year to year, some years they are up, other years they are down. I think we can tell, just from TLS and LSN, that there is still a high caliber group of students interested in Michigan law. You yourself have a LSAT above Michigan's 75%ile so I don't think you can call yourself "lesser quality."

as for location:

[rondemarino]

in her interview Dean Z mentioned that applications were DOWN in this year where other school's are seeing record increases...perhaps in part because the state of michigan is in economic decline and is attracting less students. could this spell a decline for michigan? dropping out of the T14 eventually? is it a solid investment to pay sticker for michigan?

You are making waaaaaay too much out of a drop in applications. From Dean Pless, applications are up 8% nationally, while the number of applicants is up 1%. Michigan is cold as fuck, not near a major market, its football team blows and perceptions of Michigan/Detroit are below abysmal. It still doesn't change the fact that the law school's reputation, which is 40% of the bullshit ranking, remains high (#8 among law schools, #7 among laywers). That isn't changing soon.

[beamsmehome]

.

[rondemarino]

now i'm being serious.....if there are less applicants, and they are accepting applicants of a lesser quality (like me), their #s would go down...and they might be pushed down due to their location etc where people start preferring other schools....this is a long term kind of question

I don't think you can make long-term inferences from short-term data. First, it's worth noting that Michigan has been ranked in the T10 ever since the ranking began. I would say that the long-standing impression of the school would be difficult to shake.

But say it does slip this year, from #9 to #13 or something, and the school is perceived as a formerly-exclusively-T10 school now in the T14. I think many applicants would think that it's easier to get into Michigan than it used to be, and this would result in more applicants applying, hence improving the school's numbers. A little bit of uptick/downtick isn't anything to fret over.

P.S. Good luck ED'ers!!!

Nice spin. Acceptance rate makes up only 2.5% of the rankings. Also, Michigan could just send out a billion fee waivers to unqualified applicants.

[beamsmehome]

.

[rondemarino]

A friend's father is a law professor and usually rails against the rankings anytime they come up. I've been under the assumption that students make judicious use of them, i.e., not picking Cornell over UCLA for SoCal employment or WUSTL over Fordham for NY employment. This is partly backed up by the median LSAT scores, which seem to measure purchase decisions (people with higher LSAT scores have the better pick of schools). Fordham's and GW''s are way better than similarly ranked schools like UNC and Alabama, reflecting that students are aware of Fordham's and GW's placement advantage.

With the little freak out here over Michigan's application volume, do schools really have to worry about applicants switching schools when the rankings come out in April? I mean, Michigan is probably going to drop below UVA (raised GPA median to above Berkeley's) next year, maybe even Duke (raised GPA median).

[shaville]

I know from speaking to Dean Z directly that, at the time I spoke to her, applications were up 37%. That's what she said.

[rondemarino]

It's not spin. I'm not talking about more unqualified applicants seeking out the school, I'm talking about more applicants seeking out the school, and this playing a part in regression towards the mean.

For your thesis to hold water, you need the gain in low scoring applicants to be balanced by loss of high scoring applicants. Its not clear that this will either hold true, or result in a significant change to Michigan's acceptance rate. In addition, you have to hope the bowie285s (people with strong numbers) of the world don't drop Michigan because of its ranks slide. If that happens Michigan's class profile (median LSAT/GPA and 22.5% of the ranking score) would be adversely affected by lower "caliber" matriculants.

[rondemarino]

I know from speaking to Dean Z directly that, at the time I spoke to her, applications were up 37%. That's what she said.

TLS: How have applications been this cycle, in terms of volume?

About flat, to down a couple percentage points. Frankly, the news about the state of Michigan can’t have helped our application numbers from outside the state. People who know the state aren’t troubled because they know that Ann Arbor is in good shape. People who didn’t, quite understandably, might have said that doesn’t seem like a good time to explore that place.

Returns are still coming in, but I think we’re going to have a great year in terms of the people coming; people who I was really hoping to get.

If someone can figure when that interview was conducted.....

[shaville]

I'm not sure when the interview was conducted but she told me that at the end of November. Specifically, she said that applications had been up around 37% for "about a month" compared to earlier years.

[rondemarino]

I'm not sure when the interview was conducted but she told me that at the end of November. Specifically, she said that applications had been up around 37% for "about a month" compared to earlier years.

Not too shabby. Hopefully, the surge in applications isn't the result of individual candidates applying to more schools because of the expectation of a difficult cycle. So far, the the number of applicants is up only 1% nationally (from Dean Pless). Athough applications are up 8%.

[shaville]

I'm not sure when the interview was conducted but she told me that at the end of November. Specifically, she said that applications had been up around 37% for "about a month" compared to earlier years.

Not too shabby. Hopefully, the surge in applications isn't the result of individual candidates applying to more schools because of the expectation of a difficult cycle. So far, the the number of applicants is up only 1% nationally (from Dean Pless). Athough applications are up 8%.

I'm sure a lot the increase is from people who are simply applying to more schools than ususal. It would be pretty hard to believe that Michigan would see, in one year, a dramatic (1/3) increase in the number of applicants wanting to go to there from a numerically stable applicant pool.

[beamsmehome]

.

[rondemarino]

It's not spin. I'm not talking about more unqualified applicants seeking out the school, I'm talking about more applicants seeking out the school, and this playing a part in regression towards the mean.

For your thesis to hold water, you need the gain in low scoring applicants to be balanced by loss of high scoring applicants. Its not clear that this will either hold true, or result in a significant change to Michigan's acceptance rate. In addition, you have to hope the bowie285s (people with strong numbers) of the world don't drop Michigan because of its ranks slide. If that happens Michigan's class profile (median LSAT/GPA and 22.5% of the ranking score) would be adversely affected by lower "caliber" matriculants.

Sure, why not.

But the point that I was trying to make - I might have stopped short of calling it a thesis, - is that with regard to a school which has a history suggesting it is strong, an applicant probably needn't worry too much about a one year downtick in admissions. At least I'm not going to do so, but do what works for you!!

I was RD, not ED, when will the ED'ers know for certain? 12/15, 12/30?

Agree 100%. You'll notice I said the same upthread.

[bowie8285]

.

[bowie8285]

.

[rondemarino]

A friend's father is a law professor and usually rails against the rankings anytime they come up. I've been under the assumption that students make judicious use of them, i.e., not picking Cornell over UCLA for SoCal employment or WUSTL over Fordham for NY employment. This is partly backed up by the median LSAT scores, which seem to measure purchase decisions (people with higher LSAT scores have the better pick of schools). Fordham's and GW''s are way better than similarly ranked schools like UNC and Alabama, reflecting that students are aware of Fordham's and GW's placement advantage.

With the little freak out here over Michigan's application volume, do schools really have to worry about applicants switching schools when the rankings come out in April? I mean, Michigan is probably going to drop below UVA (raised GPA median to above Berkeley's) next year, maybe even Duke (raised GPA median).

yeah this is what i mean....if michigan drops below UVA etc...makes it harder for me to decide b/w the two (especially since virginia is sunny and near a major market)

Dude, if a school dropping ONE spot in the rankings during your application year flips your decision, you're doing it wrong. If sunshine and being near a major market are important to you choose UVA regardless of the rankings.

[rondemarino]

plus this chart supports the notion of a steady decline for michigan...7-->8-->9

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... s#p1960454

It also supports the notions of.....

(1) a Virginia decline.
(2) Berkeley overtaking Yale in 2019.

[bowie8285]

.