TLS c/o 2020 - In #Squad We Trust Forum

[Keilz]

It's been a slow week so far. And next week we enter into February territory where a lot more dings and WLs come out

I'm literally only waiting for my top two choices that this point and am ready for anything.

[Torres1893]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

[brinicolec]

"#lawschool applicants down -1.7, applications down -0.3."

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult/statu ... 2540736512

Pretty clear it's going to be a down cycle overall. The percent changes in bands will tell us how it might impact admissions and/or $$$.

So if this is the case, why are some schools (Cornell, Berkeley) denying some applicants with bomb numbers lol

[brinicolec]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

I skimmed so, if I misunderstood let me know... But are they saying a good debt-salary ratio is around a 1.4-1.5% higher salary than debt incurred?

[carlos_danger]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

I skimmed so, if I misunderstood let me know... But are they saying a good debt-salary ratio is around a 1.4-1.5% higher salary than debt incurred?

No, I think they mean salary = 1.5*debt. Like 150%

[Kopetz]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

wait lmao the same company owns florida coastal, charlotte law, and arizona summit? what a racket

[brinicolec]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

I skimmed so, if I misunderstood let me know... But are they saying a good debt-salary ratio is around a 1.4-1.5% higher salary than debt incurred?

No, I think they mean salary = 1.5*debt. Like 150%

Ah, yeah yeah I could see that being what it meant.

I mean... I don't think it's necessarily a generally good debt-salary ratio, but perhaps relative to the legal profession/the debt most students incur, it is.

[brinicolec]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

wait lmao the same company owns florida coastal, charlotte law, and arizona summit? what a racket

Yeah, I was reading an article that was talking about Charlotte Law like "What can they do now" and one of the options was that Florida Coastal was considering absorbing Charlotte Law students because it's their sister school and I was like

[RParadela]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

I think it pretty much mirrors what TLS preaches about not attending at sticker

[Sarastro]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Salary to debt is definitely something to consider, but the article doesn't delve too deeply into questions about marketability beyond salary. TLS I think does a pretty good job of saying "If you know you want to live and work in City X, don't feel like you need to go to Yale if there's a regional that places well there." But if I have no idea where I want to work or if I need some flexibility, I don't know if Brigham Young is going to be as attractive as a T14, even if it costs a little more.

[Kopetz]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Salary to debt is definitely something to consider, but the article doesn't delve too deeply into questions about marketability beyond salary. TLS I think does a pretty good job of saying "If you know you want to live and work in City X, don't feel like you need to go to Yale if there's a regional that places well there." But if I have no idea where I want to work or if I need some flexibility, I don't know if Brigham Young is going to be as attractive as a T14, even if it costs a little more.

BYU gets a lot less affordable if you're not LDS, too. Your job outcomes would also probably suffer.

[alpha kenny body]

Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.

[ponderingmeerkat]

Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.

Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless you're Catholic.

[Kopetz]

Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.

Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless even if you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless even if you're Catholic.

ftfy. BYU might actually be a good option for a member of the LDS church, especially if they want to remain in that community and work in Utah/Nevada/Idaho. I can't think of a situation where Liberty/Regent/Ave Maria would be a reasonable choice.

[ponderingmeerkat]

Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.

Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless even if you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless even if you're Catholic.

ftfy. BYU might actually be a good option for a member of the LDS church, especially if they want to remain in that community and work in Utah/Nevada/Idaho. I can't think of a situation where Liberty/Regent/Ave Maria would be a reasonable choice.

Sorry...thought we were talking about the quality of the "time" you'd have at these schools. If having a good time = employable, then yea...cosign.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.

Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless even if you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless even if you're Catholic.

I can't think of a situation where Liberty/Regent/Ave Maria would be a reasonable choice.

Eh, I could see Liberty becoming a feeder school for the Trump administration. Stranger things have happened.

[Kopetz]

Do not attend BYU if you are not Mormon. You're gonna have a bad time.

Same goes for Liberty/Regent Law Schools unless even if you're an evangelical. Or Ave Maria unless even if you're Catholic.

I can't think of a situation where Liberty/Regent/Ave Maria would be a reasonable choice.

Eh, I could see Liberty becoming a feeder school for the Trump administration. Stranger things have happened.

As far as I know their higher achievers place decently into things like RW think-tanks and religious lobbying organizations, but unless the rest have all adopted anchorite asceticism their job opportunities are pretty poor

[Mr_Chukes]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?

[Kopetz]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?

There's a reason they use the average:

[+] Spoiler

[brinicolec]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?

There's a reason they use the average:

[+] Spoiler

Is that just a report of ALL lawyers who reported their salary or...?

[Kopetz]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?

There's a reason they use the average:

[+] Spoiler

Is that just a report of ALL lawyers who reported their salary or...?

NALP reports that "[the] graph is based on 22,095 salaries reported for full-time jobs lasting a year or more"

[brinicolec]

Has anyone else seen the report that was on NYtimes and I think it was NBC about the best debt to salary ratio law schools?

Just saw it on Reddit and want to get your guys' thoughts on it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/busi ... &te=1&_r=4

it's based off this report

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltuyc6lsvfhv8 ... 9.pdf?dl=0

Yeah but how many of those people who attend those schools actually get jobs?

There's a reason they use the average:

[+] Spoiler

Is that just a report of ALL lawyers who reported their salary or...?

NALP reports that "[the] graph is based on 22,095 salaries reported for full-time jobs lasting a year or more"[/quote

Any idea what percentage of salaries were reported as compared to the actual # of those jobs?

Either way, doesn't surprise me. I feel like the two most popular options (based on the discussions you see here) are BL or public interest work. Public interest work average salary is around that first peak, BL average salary (prior to the recent increase) is the second peak. It's interesting how much those BL salaries can skew the avg. lol

[Kopetz]

(quotes pruned)

There's a reason they use the average:

[+] Spoiler

Is that just a report of ALL lawyers who reported their salary or...?

NALP reports that "[the] graph is based on 22,095 salaries reported for full-time jobs lasting a year or more"

Any idea what percentage of salaries were reported as compared to the actual # of those jobs?

Either way, doesn't surprise me. I feel like the two most popular options (based on the discussions you see here) are BL or public interest work. Public interest work average salary is around that first peak, BL average salary (prior to the recent increase) is the second peak. It's interesting how much those BL salaries can skew the avg. lol

That's a great question. I'm looking around for any documentation on the study's methodology but haven't found anything yet. Just looking at the 2019 LSAT/GPA spreadsheet from the applications forum, it looks like 22,000 is slightly lower than the total aggregate class size of the top 100 schools (appx. 25-26k new students/year.)

Edited to add: This data gets a little closer to contextualizing the bimodal salary graph. The employment status was known for 96.1% of the class of 2014 (the year of the graph I posted,) indicating 36,530 known jobs for 43,832 graduates. My best guess at the 22,095 salaries used for the graph is that those are qualifying respondents from among the 36,530 employed. No idea what the breakdown is regarding how many of those 14,435 just didn't respond, weren't full-time employees, etc.

[guynourmin]

Anyone know when the c/o 2020 boards go up? should be before admitted students days, right?

[Npret]

I'm just curious is that famous bimodal curve news to you?

The bimodal curve has been around for years. Most grads go to small firms, it's not just biglaw or PI. The data is based on reports that schools collect from grads.

LST explains the NALP data but it's pretty much exactly what it says. https://www.lstreports.com/guides/NALP-Data-Terms/

It's a very simple calculation.

Here's the link:
http://www.nalp.org/uploads/ERSS/employ ... lation.pdf