In at Denver... Forum

[drummerboy]

congrats to all. Im in with 20 k per year. Im not sure what to do. TLS description states that job prospects are poor. Other than the usual in this economy rhetoric, is there something that would make me completely disregard this generous offer?

[chrisbru]

congrats to all. Im in with 20 k per year. Im not sure what to do. TLS description states that job prospects are poor. Other than the usual in this economy rhetoric, is there something that would make me completely disregard this generous offer?

What are your other options?

The top third or so seem to do ok in the Denver area, and maybe other parts of the mountain west (Salt Lake? Helena?). I guess it depends on where you want to end up, and what the total COA is for each school.

For example, Denver with $20k/year ~= $102k
Iowa, instate, no scholarship ~= $116k

If these two were your options, I'd say Iowa, hands down. Coming out of a top 30 instead of #83ish means much better job prospects. Additionally, if you factor in risk of losing your scholarship, Iowa would be a much better option. (This is just an example, of course.)

[drummerboy]

ok thanks. my choices are, stetson 10k per year. parents helping out with room and board, FIU full ride, iowa havent heard anything yet about scholly. im from south F is FIU at full ride worth considering over stetson at 10 k with help with room and board?

[bananeez]

Are you guys all attending the ASD?? I haven't decided, but I think I might. I got a very nice phonecall from a professor the other night, which made me feel like I wanted to learn more about the school by attending the ASD.

Also -- do you all feel like you may follow one of DU's concentrations? I don't think my interest lies in any of them, so I'm unsure it that will preclude me from fitting in there.

I am attending ASD. Have you joined the admitted students facebook group?

I also got the phone call from the professor and it was very nice.

What are your interests? I think DU has some pretty interesting concentrations. I also think that once you're there you'll find something that interests you. I'm also sure that just because they don't have a "concentration" in a specific area of law that you're really interested in, that they still may have some classes offered in those areas.

Thanks for your advice!! Haven't joined the fb group yet.

I agree that I'll be able to find classes that I like, especially since that have such a wide and interesting choice of upper-level classes because of the size of DU Law. I was just wondering if most people going there are interested in the Business Law, Workplace Law or International Law.

Do you think you're attending? What is swaying you?

[jayman6]

The TLS description is pretty old. DU actually sent me their most respect bar passage rates and they were in the 90's. The TLS article discussed bar passage rates of 75%. These are incredibly old statistics. Also, as the classes at DU become more competitive and they begin to increase their median LSAT and GPAs, it is likely that students in the future will continue to improve their bar passage rates, or at least it likely won't drop back down to 75%. DU places well in Denver as long as you distinguish yourself while in school. I wouldn't read too much into what TLS says about DU. Who knows when they last updated it.

[jayman6]

Thanks for your advice!! Haven't joined the fb group yet.

I agree that I'll be able to find classes that I like, especially since that have such a wide and interesting choice of upper-level classes because of the size of DU Law. I was just wondering if most people going there are interested in the Business Law, Workplace Law or International Law.

Do you think you're attending? What is swaying you?

I don't have a particular area of law that I'm especially interested in. At this point, I feel that will play itself out while I'm in school. I'm more interested in attending a school with a good reputation in its region than finding a school that is particularly strong in a specific area of law.

I do think I'll be attending. I think DU grads do well in Denver, and my $25k/yr scholly makes it hard to pass up. The only cheaper options I have right now are TTT, and I think that Denver would be an excellent place to live. DU is expensive, so I'm still looking at over $70k in loans, but I figure if I'm not doing well after my first year I'll just drop out. But if I'm doing well in my class I think DU will have plenty of employment opportunities for me.

[mbe01jad]

Interesting info on DU bar passage...

http://law.du.edu/documents/dean/July20 ... ssRate.pdf

[bananeez]

Thanks for your advice!! Haven't joined the fb group yet.

I agree that I'll be able to find classes that I like, especially since that have such a wide and interesting choice of upper-level classes because of the size of DU Law. I was just wondering if most people going there are interested in the Business Law, Workplace Law or International Law.

Do you think you're attending? What is swaying you?

I don't have a particular area of law that I'm especially interested in. At this point, I feel that will play itself out while I'm in school. I'm more interested in attending a school with a good reputation in its region than finding a school that is particularly strong in a specific area of law.

I do think I'll be attending. I think DU grads do well in Denver, and my $25k/yr scholly makes it hard to pass up. The only cheaper options I have right now are TTT, and I think that Denver would be an excellent place to live. DU is expensive, so I'm still looking at over $70k in loans, but I figure if I'm not doing well after my first year I'll just drop out. But if I'm doing well in my class I think DU will have plenty of employment opportunities for me.

I have the same scholarship as you. And agree about what you say about region and overall school. Just can't help making more detailed comparisons between DU and CU. (I'm also originally from CO, and my family lives there.) And I think DU grads to well in Denver as well. Do you feel comfortable entering, knowing you could lose the scholarship after the first year?

[typ3]

Thanks for your advice!! Haven't joined the fb group yet.

I agree that I'll be able to find classes that I like, especially since that have such a wide and interesting choice of upper-level classes because of the size of DU Law. I was just wondering if most people going there are interested in the Business Law, Workplace Law or International Law.

Do you think you're attending? What is swaying you?

I don't have a particular area of law that I'm especially interested in. At this point, I feel that will play itself out while I'm in school. I'm more interested in attending a school with a good reputation in its region than finding a school that is particularly strong in a specific area of law.

I do think I'll be attending. I think DU grads do well in Denver, and my $25k/yr scholly makes it hard to pass up. The only cheaper options I have right now are TTT, and I think that Denver would be an excellent place to live. DU is expensive, so I'm still looking at over $70k in loans, but I figure if I'm not doing well after my first year I'll just drop out. But if I'm doing well in my class I think DU will have plenty of employment opportunities for me.

I have the same scholarship as you. And agree about what you say about region and overall school. Just can't help making more detailed comparisons between DU and CU. (I'm also originally from CO, and my family lives there.) And I think DU grads to well in Denver as well. Do you feel comfortable entering, knowing you could lose the scholarship after the first year?

I think that is a concern for everyone- losing their scholarship. However, chances are if you can get one you are smart enough to compete to keep it. I think the debate between CU and DU is a little overblown.

I always take on the adage that cream always rises to the top. If you are top 20 % at DU you will be in as good of position as someone top 25% at CU. Even if your first job out of DU isn't what you like, it's not like your salary will be stagnant if you are a great attorney- you'll get cherry picked by other firms as you make connections and get a client base. People are so nearsighted sometimes due to rankings.

[bananeez]

I think that is a concern for everyone- losing their scholarship. However, chances are if you can get one you are smart enough to compete to keep it. I think the debate between CU and DU is a little overblown.

I always take on the adage that cream always rises to the top. If you are top 20 % at DU you will be in as good of position as someone top 25% at CU. Even if your first job out of DU isn't what you like, it's not like your salary will be stagnant if you are a great attorney- you'll get cherry picked by other firms as you make connections and get a client base. People are so nearsighted sometimes due to rankings.

Where did you get this information? Is it true for all areas of law? And I'm assuming you mean in Denver, right? Wouldn't this mean that everyone should choose DU, because if you can get into CU, you're much more likely to make it into the top 20 percent at DU than the top 25 percent at CU?

For me it's really not all about salary or rankings, but the program (education) and philosophy (and feel) of the school, the professors, as well as the people that will be my fellow alums for the rest of my life. And the three years of my life in school does matter to me, as well.

[mrwarre85]

[/quote]

I have the same scholarship as you. And agree about what you say about region and overall school. Just can't help making more detailed comparisons between DU and CU. (I'm also originally from CO, and my family lives there.) And I think DU grads to well in Denver as well. Do you feel comfortable entering, knowing you could lose the scholarship after the first year?[/quote]

I think that is a concern for everyone- losing their scholarship. However, chances are if you can get one you are smart enough to compete to keep it. I think the debate between CU and DU is a little overblown.

I always take on the adage that cream always rises to the top. If you are top 20 % at DU you will be in as good of position as someone top 25% at CU. Even if your first job out of DU isn't what you like, it's not like your salary will be stagnant if you are a great attorney- you'll get cherry picked by other firms as you make connections and get a client base. People are so nearsighted sometimes due to rankings.[/quote]

I agree with all of your post, except I might think that top 25 % at CU would place better than top 20 % at DU, all things being equal. That's just the point though-- all things being equal. All things are never equal, and there are lots of different ways to stand out at both schools, especially DU with its Denver location and larger class size.

On scholarships, I really don't think you will be losing your scholarship. The cutoff is top-half. Most top-half scholarship schools that I've investigated told me that between 85 % and 95 % of their scholarship kids kept their money, with some schools reporting that their number was never less than 90 %. I think there was one exception -Baylor- that told me their number was much worse, at around 65 %. However, this was because they offered like 85 % of accepted students a scholarship, and I don' t think DU offers more than half of its class money (please correct if you know differently).

My .02

[typ3]

I think that is a concern for everyone- losing their scholarship. However, chances are if you can get one you are smart enough to compete to keep it. I think the debate between CU and DU is a little overblown.

I always take on the adage that cream always rises to the top. If you are top 20 % at DU you will be in as good of position as someone top 25% at CU. Even if your first job out of DU isn't what you like, it's not like your salary will be stagnant if you are a great attorney- you'll get cherry picked by other firms as you make connections and get a client base. People are so nearsighted sometimes due to rankings.

Where did you get this information? Is it true for all areas of law? And I'm assuming you mean in Denver, right? Wouldn't this mean that everyone should choose DU, because if you can get into CU, you're much more likely to make it into the top 20 percent at DU than the top 25 percent at CU?

For me it's really not all about salary or rankings, but the program (education) and philosophy (and feel) of the school, the professors, as well as the people that will be my fellow alums for the rest of my life. And the three years of my life in school does matter to me, as well.

The problem is if you don't make top 20% your employment prospects are significantly more limited than those of CU. Top 50% CU will land you a job regardless. Middle of the road DU will get you a job but you will be making 60% of what the CU grad is. This might be a little self selecting though because the average DU student is not as competitive / attractive of an employment prospect as the CU student. However, the top students at the schools are roughly of equal quality. This is the reason why H / CCN cherry pick off the top 1L's from schools and convince them to transfer.

I got this information from a different thread with a DU and CU 3L talking about employment prospects. I'm sure you can search for it or dig through a few pages of old threads to find the exact conversation.

[typ3]

I agree with all of your post, except I might think that top 25 % at CU would place better than top 20 % at DU, all things being equal. That's just the point though-- all things being equal. All things are never equal, and there are lots of different ways to stand out at both schools, especially DU with its Denver location and larger class size.

It's easier to work in Denver during the year and make connections. The reasoning is, you will leverage these connections during your 3L year to find a job or get an offer from the firm you clerk at 2L / 3L year.

[mrwarre85]

I agree with all of your post, except I might think that top 25 % at CU would place better than top 20 % at DU, all things being equal. That's just the point though-- all things being equal. All things are never equal, and there are lots of different ways to stand out at both schools, especially DU with its Denver location and larger class size.

It's easier to work in Denver during the year and make connections. The reasoning is, you will leverage these connections during your 3L year to find a job or get an offer from the firm you clerk at 2L / 3L year.

Are you going to attend? I noticed you listed yourself as a 3.6 170 URM. Hmm...

I think DU is a great school though, and good for you bucking the traditional notion on this one. How is your DU scholarship negotiation working out?

[bananeez]

I think that is a concern for everyone- losing their scholarship. However, chances are if you can get one you are smart enough to compete to keep it. I think the debate between CU and DU is a little overblown.

I always take on the adage that cream always rises to the top. If you are top 20 % at DU you will be in as good of position as someone top 25% at CU. Even if your first job out of DU isn't what you like, it's not like your salary will be stagnant if you are a great attorney- you'll get cherry picked by other firms as you make connections and get a client base. People are so nearsighted sometimes due to rankings.

Where did you get this information? Is it true for all areas of law? And I'm assuming you mean in Denver, right? Wouldn't this mean that everyone should choose DU, because if you can get into CU, you're much more likely to make it into the top 20 percent at DU than the top 25 percent at CU?

For me it's really not all about salary or rankings, but the program (education) and philosophy (and feel) of the school, the professors, as well as the people that will be my fellow alums for the rest of my life. And the three years of my life in school does matter to me, as well.

The problem is if you don't make top 20% your employment prospects are significantly more limited than those of CU. Top 50% CU will land you a job regardless. Middle of the road DU will get you a job but you will be making 60% of what the CU grad is. This might be a little self selecting though because the average DU student is not as competitive / attractive of an employment prospect as the CU student. However, the top students at the schools are roughly of equal quality. This is the reason why H / CCN cherry pick off the top 1L's from schools and convince them to transfer.

I got this information from a different thread with a DU and CU 3L talking about employment prospects. I'm sure you can search for it or dig through a few pages of old threads to find the exact conversation.

Thanks for your help guys, it's so so helpful to talk through this stuff with you all. Let me know if you happen to find that link -- I must have missed it. Have you made a decision?

[typ3]

I think that is a concern for everyone- losing their scholarship. However, chances are if you can get one you are smart enough to compete to keep it. I think the debate between CU and DU is a little overblown.

I always take on the adage that cream always rises to the top. If you are top 20 % at DU you will be in as good of position as someone top 25% at CU. Even if your first job out of DU isn't what you like, it's not like your salary will be stagnant if you are a great attorney- you'll get cherry picked by other firms as you make connections and get a client base. People are so nearsighted sometimes due to rankings.

Where did you get this information? Is it true for all areas of law? And I'm assuming you mean in Denver, right? Wouldn't this mean that everyone should choose DU, because if you can get into CU, you're much more likely to make it into the top 20 percent at DU than the top 25 percent at CU?

For me it's really not all about salary or rankings, but the program (education) and philosophy (and feel) of the school, the professors, as well as the people that will be my fellow alums for the rest of my life. And the three years of my life in school does matter to me, as well.

The problem is if you don't make top 20% your employment prospects are significantly more limited than those of CU. Top 50% CU will land you a job regardless. Middle of the road DU will get you a job but you will be making 60% of what the CU grad is. This might be a little self selecting though because the average DU student is not as competitive / attractive of an employment prospect as the CU student. However, the top students at the schools are roughly of equal quality. This is the reason why H / CCN cherry pick off the top 1L's from schools and convince them to transfer.

I got this information from a different thread with a DU and CU 3L talking about employment prospects. I'm sure you can search for it or dig through a few pages of old threads to find the exact conversation.

Thanks for your help guys, it's so so helpful to talk through this stuff with you all. Let me know if you happen to find that link -- I must have missed it. Have you made a decision?

No.. I can't get CU to send me an acceptance yet... but I'm going to give an honest look at Iowa and Minnesota.. but I think I want to head West.. I really love to ski and I feel if I don't do it now I'll never get a chance to again in my life (at least as much of it as I want to)

[mrwarre85]

I think that is a concern for everyone- losing their scholarship. However, chances are if you can get one you are smart enough to compete to keep it. I think the debate between CU and DU is a little overblown.

I always take on the adage that cream always rises to the top. If you are top 20 % at DU you will be in as good of position as someone top 25% at CU. Even if your first job out of DU isn't what you like, it's not like your salary will be stagnant if you are a great attorney- you'll get cherry picked by other firms as you make connections and get a client base. People are so nearsighted sometimes due to rankings.

Where did you get this information? Is it true for all areas of law? And I'm assuming you mean in Denver, right? Wouldn't this mean that everyone should choose DU, because if you can get into CU, you're much more likely to make it into the top 20 percent at DU than the top 25 percent at CU?

For me it's really not all about salary or rankings, but the program (education) and philosophy (and feel) of the school, the professors, as well as the people that will be my fellow alums for the rest of my life. And the three years of my life in school does matter to me, as well.

We have similar thoughts on the criterion for picking a law school. +2

[typ3]

I agree with all of your post, except I might think that top 25 % at CU would place better than top 20 % at DU, all things being equal. That's just the point though-- all things being equal. All things are never equal, and there are lots of different ways to stand out at both schools, especially DU with its Denver location and larger class size.

It's easier to work in Denver during the year and make connections. The reasoning is, you will leverage these connections during your 3L year to find a job or get an offer from the firm you clerk at 2L / 3L year.

How is your DU scholarship negotiation working out?

That was Krad and Chrisbru who were negotiating.

[mrwarre85]

How is your DU scholarship negotiation working out?[/quote]

That was Krad and Chrisbru who were negotiating.[/quote]

I just assumed you would be negotiating for one to considering your numbers. Where are you in the process? Waiting for scholly info?

[bananeez]

For me it's really not all about salary or rankings, but the program (education) and philosophy (and feel) of the school, the professors, as well as the people that will be my fellow alums for the rest of my life. And the three years of my life in school does matter to me, as well.

We have similar thoughts on the criterion for picking a law school. +2

We can be friends!!

[jayman6]

Thanks for your advice!! Haven't joined the fb group yet.

I agree that I'll be able to find classes that I like, especially since that have such a wide and interesting choice of upper-level classes because of the size of DU Law. I was just wondering if most people going there are interested in the Business Law, Workplace Law or International Law.

Do you think you're attending? What is swaying you?

I don't have a particular area of law that I'm especially interested in. At this point, I feel that will play itself out while I'm in school. I'm more interested in attending a school with a good reputation in its region than finding a school that is particularly strong in a specific area of law.

I do think I'll be attending. I think DU grads do well in Denver, and my $25k/yr scholly makes it hard to pass up. The only cheaper options I have right now are TTT, and I think that Denver would be an excellent place to live. DU is expensive, so I'm still looking at over $70k in loans, but I figure if I'm not doing well after my first year I'll just drop out. But if I'm doing well in my class I think DU will have plenty of employment opportunities for me.

I have the same scholarship as you. And agree about what you say about region and overall school. Just can't help making more detailed comparisons between DU and CU. (I'm also originally from CO, and my family lives there.) And I think DU grads to well in Denver as well. Do you feel comfortable entering, knowing you could lose the scholarship after the first year?

I do feel comfortable because I believe I'll stay in the top 50%. If I'm in the bottom half of my class at the end of the first year I'd probably drop out anyway.

[typ3]

I just assumed you would be negotiating for one to considering your numbers. Where are you in the process? Waiting for scholly info?

I received a very generous offer from Denver.

[chrisbru]

ok thanks. my choices are, stetson 10k per year. parents helping out with room and board, FIU full ride, iowa havent heard anything yet about scholly. im from south F is FIU at full ride worth considering over stetson at 10 k with help with room and board?

IMHO, I'd never go to FIU EVER, and would only go to Stetson if it was free and I knew I wanted to stay in Florida. Do you want to stay in Florida? Basically, if you want to

Stay in Florida: Stetson
Work in Denver, or possibly other mountain west cities: Denver
Work in the midwest: Iowa

Although I would be hard pressed to pick Iowa full OOS tuition over Denver, so it depends on your scholarship there.

I personally think Denver is your best bet, but I hate Florida and LOVE CO

[typ3]

ok thanks. my choices are, stetson 10k per year. parents helping out with room and board, FIU full ride, iowa havent heard anything yet about scholly. im from south F is FIU at full ride worth considering over stetson at 10 k with help with room and board?

IMHO, I'd never go to FIU EVER, and would only go to Stetson if it was free and I knew I wanted to stay in Florida. Do you want to stay in Florida? Basically, if you want to

Stay in Florida: Stetson
Work in Denver, or possibly other mountain west cities: Denver
Work in the midwest: Iowa

Although I would be hard pressed to pick Iowa full OOS tuition over Denver, so it depends on your scholarship there.

I personally think Denver is your best bet, but I hate Florida and LOVE CO

I would probably say Denver as well. I don't think you'll get a scholarship at Iowa tbh.

[drummerboy]

thanks guys. i want to stay in fl my entire family is there.