SMU 2011 Forum

[patrickd139]

I can only chalk it up to this: if you want to be a Texas litigator, you need to go to Baylor.

This is not true. Baylor has an excellent litigation program, but other schools in TX, most notably the top three schools all have better hiring prospects than baylor.

+1

Very few (none?) of the top "Texas litigators" (a useless term, in its own right, when not defined) went to Baylor. (I seriously question the argument that the top "Texas litigators" are great litigators because they went to Baylor.) However, plenty of fantastic top-tier corporate litigators went to T14, UT, etc.

I'm skeptical of those (especially non-Baylor Law students/graduates) who advocate going to Baylor (which models its vaunted practice court program after civil PI cases) so they can land a corporate litigation job. The numbers just don't bear this one out. Assuming you accept the tenuous argument that Baylor grads are somehow superior litigators because of practice court, the corporate lit jobs are rarely accessible to Baylor grads, making it a moot argument.

[swiftwings88]

I can only chalk it up to this: if you want to be a Texas litigator, you need to go to Baylor.

This is not true. Baylor has an excellent litigation program, but other schools in TX, most notably the top three schools all have better hiring prospects than baylor.

+1

Very few (none?) of the top "Texas litigators" (a useless term, in its own right, when not defined) went to Baylor. (I seriously question the argument that the top "Texas litigators" are great litigators because they went to Baylor.) However, plenty of fantastic top-tier corporate litigators went to T14, UT, etc.

I'm skeptical of those (especially non-Baylor Law students/graduates) who advocate going to Baylor (which models its vaunted practice court program after civil PI cases) so they can land a corporate litigation job. The numbers just don't bear this one out. Assuming you accept the tenuous argument that Baylor grads are somehow superior litigators because of practice court, the corporate lit jobs are rarely accessible to Baylor grads, making it a moot argument.

I don't think Baylor grads have superior hiring prospects or are better litigators in the long run necessarily, however, baylor grads are (as ive been told by a number of professionals) a few years ahead of associates in litigation from other Texas law schools. Also, baylor grads are represented at some of the top big law litigation firms in the state but i don't think the numbers pan out.

[CrimLaw300]

FWIW:
I work at a law library, and I have talked to multiple lawyers and current law students about this. I have been told that Baylor grads are very well prepared when they graduate compared to graduates of other Texas schools and that they work extremely well under pressure.

[swiftwings88]

FWIW:
I work at a law library, and I have talked to multiple lawyers and current law students about this. I have been told that Baylor grads are very well prepared when they graduate compared to graduates of other Texas schools and that they work extremely well under pressure.

+1 I've heard the same things.

[nouseforaname123]

SMU has been slow to give decisions for decades.

Also, SMU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baylor.

Baylor is awful.

I get a lot of that on these forums. Why so awful? Most attendees and Baylor grads I've talked to report a challenging rewarding experience, and several lawyers I've talked to in litigation informed me in no uncertain terms that baylor grads are exceptionally well prepared for litigation.

I guess in order to keep this on topic I have to ask: let's say I receive comparable or slightly less money from SMU. Why should I choose SMU over Baylor? sell me.

I know I'm a little late but let me add a few things:

1. Baylor seems to intentionally curve to a 2.0. I've heard SMU professors explicitly state that the school tries to keep up with the curves at other schools b/c employers don't really bother to keep up with curves at each school. An employer may be comparing Baylor, UT, and SMU resumes and see 3.1, 3.3, 3.4, respectively. The BU resume actually would correspond to a (significantly?) higher class rank yet the employer may believe that the Baylor grad didn't perform as well in law school, relative to his peers. Also add in the fact that Baylor refuses to take whatever minor steps are necessary to be able to award Coif status to the Top 10% of their grads and it seems like Baylor Law is difficult for the sake of being difficult (The 3.1 at Baylor is probably good enough for Coif and thus would help signal to an employer that a 3.1 at Baylor law is good enough for Top 10%).

http://www.baylor.edu/law/cd/index.php?id=75305

Good grades at Baylor Law School do not come easily. We use a rigorous grading standard, employing an "A" to "F" grading system, while many schools use a more liberal "A" to "C" grading system. Baylor faculty regard a "C" as indicating satisfactory work. Therefore, a "C" at Baylor Law School is considered a respectable grade.

2. Everybody I've ever known that went to Baylor law has suggested that Practice Court looms over everything. While it seems to me that most schools treat their 3L's almost like respect scholars, PC seems to be a hazing ritual for Baylor 3L's.

3. Everybody at Baylor seems to suggest the quarter system really screws with employment opportunities. I didn't bother to look into the merits of this specific issue, but it seems to be a consensus.

4. I agree that Baylor law graduates the best prepared litigators. I don't have an answer to this question, but I wonder how long that advantage remains? As litigators from other schools start developing their skills as practicing attorneys I would imagine that the advantage of Baylor law is eventually erased.

5. Ken Starr becoming the President of Baylor does suggest that Baylor has interesting potential. Pepperdine Law saw its ranking sky rocket under Starr's tenure as Dean. I know Starr is now serving as President of the entire university but one can imagine that he'll have more than just a marginal interest in the law school as well.

[nouseforaname123]

One other thing.

From the same Baylor website I just quoted:

•Employers using grade point average as part of their hiring criteria should set standards specifically for Baylor Law students. Because grading policies vary from school to school, imposing the same GPA requirements on candidates from different schools may result in the inadvertent elimination of highly qualified candidates from schools such as Baylor.

This is is what scared me about Baylor. Instead of simply keeping up with everybody else Baylor would prefer to acknowledge the problem that its grading system creates and then expect employers to account for it.

[kalvano]

One last point on the Baylor thing, as I have received some PM's. I've said several times on here that SMU has a very relaxed atmosphere, and it seems some people have read that to mean "easy". It's anything but. Any good law school will be challenging, and SMU is no exception. It's a lot of work and a lot of reading, and you have to know the material. However, the atmosphere is very pleasant. People are laid back and helpful. No one seems to be out to try and screw anyone else (except maybe one or two people). People are competitive without being rude or douchebags.

Any good law school will be difficult. Baylor seems to not only be exceptionally more difficult, but to pride itself on it. If it were on par with UT in the state, that would be one thing. But it's not anywhere close to UT, UofH, or SMU for job prospects. If you have a choice between the Texas Big 3 and Baylor, I would be very wary about taking Baylor simply for the several extra layers of difficulty they add to it. And all for not really stellar job prospects. Baylor really has nothing to offer over the other three schools, yet they really make you suffer to graduate.

[bergg007]

One other thing.

From the same Baylor website I just quoted:

•Employers using grade point average as part of their hiring criteria should set standards specifically for Baylor Law students. Because grading policies vary from school to school, imposing the same GPA requirements on candidates from different schools may result in the inadvertent elimination of highly qualified candidates from schools such as Baylor.

This is is what scared me about Baylor. Instead of simply keeping up with everybody else Baylor would prefer to acknowledge the problem that its grading system creates and then expect employers to account for it.

This quote is so prideful. "hey everyone, Baylor is so awesome that people should adjust their numbers so that our people can get employed. We refuse to fix ourselves to match the normal grading guidelines at our 'peer' schools. Everyone should adjust to us, because were that cool. Baylor is awesome, peace out."


baylor just dropped to the bottom of the pile for me. not that it was ever that far away...

[nouseforaname123]

Baylor really has nothing to offer over the other three schools, yet they really make you suffer to graduate.

I think you go a tad bit too far. I believe that for your typical applicant Baylor doesn't offer much over the three schools you mentioned, but for specific people Baylor could be the right choice. I had a good buddy who was from a more rural area (think Amarillo, Midland, Tyler). His then fiancee (now wife) was from the same area and he knew from his undergrad days that all he wanted to do was go home and work in the local DA's office. In that context, especially with significant scholarship money, Baylor was a very good choice over the other 3 schools. He was down in Waco while his SO was in med school and now they've gone back home and both are about as happy as can be.

Assuming one can get into UH or SMU, I do agree that Baylor seems like a bad value proposition for your average law school applicant.

[TJISMYHERO]

Here's to trying to stay off SMU's status checker until January!

[Burgstaller04]

Here's to trying to stay off SMU's status checker until January!

Good luck! If you figure out a secret to accomplishing that, let me know.

[Capitol A]

Here's to trying to stay off SMU's status checker until January!

Good luck! If you figure out a secret to accomplishing that, let me know.

Now that I've gotten an acceptance I check all my status checkers A LOT less.

[mbusch22]

Your status checker will just say "decision rendered". And then you wait for the call from Maggie. No Call= letter coming. (defer or reject, assuming you were EA)

[ksimon2007]

Here's to trying to stay off SMU's status checker until January!

Good luck! If you figure out a secret to accomplishing that, let me know.

Now that I've gotten an acceptance I check all my status checkers A LOT less.

+1

[ihp12]

Here's to trying to stay off SMU's status checker until January!

Good luck! If you figure out a secret to accomplishing that, let me know.

Now that I've gotten an acceptance I check all my status checkers A LOT less.

+1, and I sleep A LOT more.

[jacketman03]

Submitted my app last night, now it's time for the waiting.

[Thirteen]

Here's to trying to stay off SMU's status checker until January!

Good luck! If you figure out a secret to accomplishing that, let me know.

Tell a friend to change your password, and to check it for you once per week.

[TJISMYHERO]

Here's to trying to stay off SMU's status checker until January!

Good luck! If you figure out a secret to accomplishing that, let me know.

Tell a friend to change your password, and to check it for you once per week.

I may actually do that.

[ebo]

ESPN's last 30 for 30 will be about the SMU death penalty in the 1980s. It's airing Saturday after the Heisman presentation (ironic timing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwtX-4fXOyk

[swiftwings88]

halfway through december and no admits so far that I've heard about. SMU certainly puts agony in the waiting game.

[bergg007]

halfway through december and no admits so far that I've heard about. SMU certainly puts agony in the waiting game.

No there isn't much agony, everyone knows they won't receive anything from SMU until the end of January. I wonder if they do that as YP so that over qualified applicants will withdraw after they get into their reaches and SMU won't send them a wasted acceptance.

just an idea. it is a pain for applicants though.

[kalvano]

halfway through december and no admits so far that I've heard about. SMU certainly puts agony in the waiting game.

You will not get anything until January. The end.

[swiftwings88]

halfway through december and no admits so far that I've heard about. SMU certainly puts agony in the waiting game.

You will not get anything until January. The end.

Good story!

[Hannibal]

Just here to say I got the SMU recruitment package and WOW it's immaculate. Big magazine, viewbook, actual application, letter, etc. Crazy.

[thewarflamingo]

Just here to say I got the SMU recruitment package and WOW it's immaculate. Big magazine, viewbook, actual application, letter, etc. Crazy.

Did you request it or did they just send one? I requested a viewbook back in October, but I never received one.