Harvard c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013) Forum

[ManOfTheMinute]

And I thought the 860% increase over at YLS for URM was a lot.

Told you it wasn't that much. Although, to be honest, beyond a certain point, I think it's kind of meaningless. What it really says is "There is a numbers-level below which non-URMs aren't getting in, but URMs can." What it definitely doesn't say is "the average URM is 8.6 or 48.6 or 480.6 times more likely to get in than the average non-URM.

Yeah thats what's happening. No real way for numbers to express that. To quantify the URM boost we should be looking at people whose non-URM numbers history yield a 25-75% acceptance rate... or something along those lines. Although, the relative magnitude between schools indicates that harvard cares more than yale (which I think I have seen in other analyses)

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Not a typo, but if you check out my last post, I think that pretty much explains my interpretation of it. Parsing it by URM type would be nearly impossible for a couple reasons. The first is that you'd have to depend on the person indicating in the "other" section of their LSN profile what type of URM (s)he happens to be, and I think we'd end up with so few observations that any analysis would be meaningless. The other, more immediate problem is...I don't want to dig through all those profiles!

Makes sense, thanks!

[elterrible78]

And I thought the 860% increase over at YLS for URM was a lot.

Told you it wasn't that much. Although, to be honest, beyond a certain point, I think it's kind of meaningless. What it really says is "There is a numbers-level below which non-URMs aren't getting in, but URMs can." What it definitely doesn't say is "the average URM is 8.6 or 48.6 or 480.6 times more likely to get in than the average non-URM.

Yeah thats what's happening. No real way for numbers to express that. To quantify the URM boost we should be looking at people whose non-URM numbers history yield a 25-75% acceptance rate... or something along those lines. Although, the relative magnitude between schools indicates that harvard cares more than yale (which I think I have seen in other analyses)

From everything I've looked at, Harvard cares about more than anyone in the T14 by a pretty wide margin, actually.

[Mr. Elshal]

Also, Yale only really needs a few URMs to match the population percentage. So for example, only about 12 AAs break 170 each year, Yale can take 10 of them and be within their 25%-75% for LSAT, thus it only seems like a smaller boost.

Case and point: One would imagine that an AA with a 170/3.7 would at least be at least WL at YLS given the information above...not so much.

I've been trying to understand...based on this information, are there not many AAs at top law schools? Like, taking your hypothetical above, is it feasible to go to H or Y and see only 10 or fewer AAs? That seems pretty weird. Also, I imagine this would be more pronounced at H where the student body is huge.

[clouded.memory]

Also, Yale only really needs a few URMs to match the population percentage. So for example, only about 12 AAs break 170 each year, Yale can take 10 of them and be within their 25%-75% for LSAT, thus it only seems like a smaller boost.

Case and point: One would imagine that an AA with a 170/3.7 would at least be at least WL at YLS given the information above...not so much.

I've been trying to understand...based on this information, are there not many AAs at top law schools? Like, taking your hypothetical above, is it feasible to go to H or Y and see only 10 or fewer AAs? That seems pretty weird. Also, I imagine this would be more pronounced at H where the student body is huge.

I think this link answers your question pretty nicely: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=195443

According to this, all-in-all, there's only about 331 (give or take) AAs in the T-14.

[Mr. Elshal]

Also, Yale only really needs a few URMs to match the population percentage. So for example, only about 12 AAs break 170 each year, Yale can take 10 of them and be within their 25%-75% for LSAT, thus it only seems like a smaller boost.

Case and point: One would imagine that an AA with a 170/3.7 would at least be at least WL at YLS given the information above...not so much.

I've been trying to understand...based on this information, are there not many AAs at top law schools? Like, taking your hypothetical above, is it feasible to go to H or Y and see only 10 or fewer AAs? That seems pretty weird. Also, I imagine this would be more pronounced at H where the student body is huge.

I think this link answers your question pretty nicely: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=195443

According to this, all-in-all, there's only about 331 (give or take) AAs in the T-14.

I guess that's not as bad as I imagined it, although still low enough to be interesting.
Now I'm curious about whether URMs who get a boost are generally able to keep up with their fellow students who may have needed a higher GPA/LSAT to get in without any boost. I'll save that for another time though, because I don't want people to see too many new posts and think JS1s are out

[Yukos]

Also, Yale only really needs a few URMs to match the population percentage. So for example, only about 12 AAs break 170 each year, Yale can take 10 of them and be within their 25%-75% for LSAT, thus it only seems like a smaller boost.

Case and point: One would imagine that an AA with a 170/3.7 would at least be at least WL at YLS given the information above...not so much.

I've been trying to understand...based on this information, are there not many AAs at top law schools? Like, taking your hypothetical above, is it feasible to go to H or Y and see only 10 or fewer AAs? That seems pretty weird. Also, I imagine this would be more pronounced at H where the student body is huge.

I think this link answers your question pretty nicely: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=195443

According to this, all-in-all, there's only about 331 (give or take) AAs in the T-14.

I guess that's not as bad as I imagined it, although still low enough to be interesting.
Now I'm curious about whether URMs who get a boost are generally able to keep up with their fellow students who may have needed a higher GPA/LSAT to get in without any boost. I'll save that for another time though, because I don't want people to see too many new posts and think JS1s are out

Yeah and this thread might not be the right place for that, considering that's one of the most controversial aspects of AA...

[elterrible78]

Is that URM% a typo? It looks more like a DBZ power level than a URM bump. Not complaining but just... wow. If you don't mind explaining, how did you come to that % exactly?

ETA: is there anyway to further parse that % by URM type?

You know, this was starting to bother me. It's not that the number is inaccurate, it's just that at first glance it seems insane. Maybe a better way to look at a URM bump is like this:

In terms of your chances at getting in at Harvard, being a URM is worth 8.8 points on your LSAT and 0.42 on your GPA. I think that's a little easier to digest, probably.

[clouded.memory]

Yeah and this thread might not be the right place for that, considering that's one of the most controversial aspects of AA...

+1

[Yukos]

I decided to make a chart since that's what all the cool kids are doing. This graph represents the relative importance of the GPA increase, LSAT increase and URM boosts.

[az21833]

I decided to make a chart since that's what all the cool kids are doing. This graph represents the relative importance of the GPA increase, LSAT increase and URM boosts.

LOL

[sabanist]

In terms of your chances at getting in at Harvard, being a URM is worth 8.8 points on your LSAT and 0.42 on your GPA. I think that's a little easier to digest, probably.

As a person who can't math, this makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the info!

[housebro13]

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[spyke123]

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congrats!!!!!

when was your JS1?

[elterrible78]

JS2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats!!

[housebro13]

JS2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

congrats!!!!!

when was your JS1?

Invite 1/3 and interview date 1/8.

[GeneralMuffin]

JS2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats!

I can't decide whether I should anxiously hover over my phone or whether I should try and stay away so I don't get my hopes up every time the stupid thing buzzes.

[Mr. Elshal]

JS2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[wtrc]

JS2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

congrats!!!!!

when was your JS1?

Invite 1/3 and interview date 1/8.

Congrats! Mind sharing what your LSAT score was?

[chickpea]

Congrats Housebro!!!!

[clouded.memory]

JS2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congratulations!!!

[sitwaitwish]

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[twinkletoes16]

If JS2s....no JS1s today?


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[mommalee]

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[mm3456]

JS2!!!!