Brooklyn Law c/o 2016 Forum

[fredmerz]

I'm not going to be able to look for a place in Brooklyn because I am coming from out of state and will still be working this summer. Being unfamiliar with the areas make it unlikely I'd live elsewhere my 1L. Kinda shallow, but just a ease of mind kind of thing. There's also the possibility that I'd be splitting my Feil rent with my "family member" (read: girlfriend).

Ah. Understandable. Prospect Heights, Fort Greene, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill and Clinton Hill are all very close to BLS and all very nice neighborhoods in case you change your mind.

[shredmeister]

The ranking drop isn't anything to fear alone, I'm concerned that they are selling 6/8 brownstones that they own and are having smaller and smaller entering classes each year, and whilst other schools are also seeing dips in matriculation, BLS dropped the most dramatically out of my other options (Uconn, PSU, Dozo).

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

Is BLS really known for being a cut-throat environment? I haven't heard that but I'd have no trouble believing it.

If there's any current students lurking over this thread, please share your opinions

[blugirl400]

I applied in January, still have not heard a decision...

[billiris321]

The ranking drop isn't anything to fear alone, I'm concerned that they are selling 6/8 brownstones that they own and are having smaller and smaller entering classes each year, and whilst other schools are also seeing dips in matriculation, BLS dropped the most dramatically out of my other options (Uconn, PSU, Dozo).

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

Is BLS really known for being a cut-throat environment? I haven't heard that but I'd have no trouble believing it.

If there's any current students lurking over this thread, please share your opinions

Dozo>>>> Brooklyn. Jews are powerful. Unless you're doing public interest, go there. Brooklyn and Fordham are sliding dramatically. Dozo will become the new NYC number 3 soon. Watch

[Crease]

Admitted on 3/15. Merit scholarship was disclosed this morning on BLS Connect (no email yet). 41k per year, top 80% stip. For context, I scored a 164 and had a 3.45 GPA at an Ivy.

[DTDT]

The ranking drop isn't anything to fear alone, I'm concerned that they are selling 6/8 brownstones that they own and are having smaller and smaller entering classes each year, and whilst other schools are also seeing dips in matriculation, BLS dropped the most dramatically out of my other options (Uconn, PSU, Dozo).

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

Is BLS really known for being a cut-throat environment? I haven't heard that but I'd have no trouble believing it.

If there's any current students lurking over this thread, please share your opinions

I am a current student. The rank drop is like a dagger in the back after all of the work that goes into acquiring a JD. Regarding the smaller class size, that should not be viewed as a negative for prospective students as there are only so many alumni connections and having less competition for internships and such is a blessing, industry-wide but specifically within BLS. Prospective hires aren't going to be graded based on BLS' rank being 60 or 80 but it certainly does not help the school's ability to attract fresh meat for the grinder.

The grapevine says the rank drop was due to post-graduate hiring out 9-months which may have been neglected by the administration. There have been changes that will be reflected in the future, certainly the poor market has not helped with top law school grads grabbing any positions that they can.

[ArizonaSecrets]

I'm not going to be able to look for a place in Brooklyn because I am coming from out of state and will still be working this summer. Being unfamiliar with the areas make it unlikely I'd live elsewhere my 1L. Kinda shallow, but just a ease of mind kind of thing. There's also the possibility that I'd be splitting my Feil rent with my "family member" (read: girlfriend).

Ah. Understandable. Prospect Heights, Fort Greene, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill and Clinton Hill are all very close to BLS and all very nice neighborhoods in case you change your mind.

Haha, thanks so much for the run down. I appreciate you giving me a heads up and I think I'm going to need to go back to the school, because people are saying things like...

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

...and I get nervous when people are writing a school like this off so easily. Again, $ means more to me, so although I understand why people value Dozo so highly but I don't care as much about their ranking. I have heard from many people that they believe Dozo will continue to rise in NYC legal market.

[jack5on]

Regarding the smaller class size, that should not be viewed as a negative for prospective students as there are only so many alumni connections and having less competition for internships and such is a blessing, industry-wide but specifically within BLS. Prospective hires aren't going to be graded based on BLS' rank being 60 or 80 but it certainly does not help the school's ability to attract fresh meat for the grinder.

The grapevine says the rank drop was due to post-graduate hiring out 9-months which may have been neglected by the administration. There have been changes that will be reflected in the future, certainly the poor market has not helped with top law school grads grabbing any positions that they can.

Thank You! Can we just think about basic economics? There is a lower demand for lawyers, so the supply is adjusting to meet the demand.
Especially when you see that raw data wise BLS does place a fair amount of grads into big-mid law firms (considering the rank)....lowering the class size will be advantageous for everyone.

Though in terms of why they dropped to 80: the administration says they didn't expect, or were not prepared to submit the data that was asked of them. I think it's been said here before, but if a student showed up for their final and said they didn't think they were expected to know certain material...lets just say they wouldn't just have dropped 15 places in the rankings.

[DTDT]

...and I get nervous when people are writing a school like this off so easily. Again, $ means more to me, so although I understand why people value Dozo so highly but I don't care as much about their ranking. I have heard from many people that they believe Dozo will continue to rise in NYC legal market.

You should be nervous, I do not undersand why someone would value the Cardozo name significantly greater than BLS, your concerns should be almost identical. Neither school's graduates are landing big law jobs at a rate that reflect the tuition costs.

[law2016]

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

...and I get nervous when people are writing a school like this off so easily. Again, $ means more to me, so although I understand why people value Dozo so highly but I don't care as much about their ranking. I have heard from many people that they believe Dozo will continue to rise in NYC legal market.

I am having the same concerns. It seems that whenever I ask people in the legal profession about deciding between the lower ranked NY schools, I am always told to go where the money is. Will choosing BLS with slightly less than a full scholarship be more beneficial than going to another similarly ranked school with a full scholarship?

[nedzilla]

Admitted on 3/15. Merit scholarship was disclosed this morning on BLS Connect (no email yet). 41k per year, top 80% stip. For context, I scored a 164 and had a 3.45 GPA at an Ivy.

Got the same scholarship this morning as well via email. 41k/yr. very excited!

[Ms. B]

Has anyone had any luck negotiating more scholarship? I tried and received the "we do not negotiate with terrorists" response, but I've read that they typically start throwing more money around closer to the seat deposit deadline. If that's the case, do you think its better to deposit or not to deposit? Seems like if you commit, you risk being neglected when they reassess scholarships since they already have you on the hook. Buuuut, if you don't deposit and they don't choose to increase your offer....you've lost your seat, right? Seems like a crapshoot either way....

[baddabing27]

Dozo>>>> Brooklyn. Jews are powerful. Unless you're doing public interest, go there. Brooklyn and Fordham are sliding dramatically. Dozo will become the new NYC number 3 soon. Watch

Completely unfounded claim.

[amf728]

Has anyone had any luck negotiating more scholarship? I tried and received the "we do not negotiate with terrorists" response, but I've read that they typically start throwing more money around closer to the seat deposit deadline. If that's the case, do you think its better to deposit or not to deposit? Seems like if you commit, you risk being neglected when they reassess scholarships since they already have you on the hook. Buuuut, if you don't deposit and they don't choose to increase your offer....you've lost your seat, right? Seems like a crapshoot either way....

I got the same response. We have until the 15th to put the deposit down, so they still have 2 weeks. I'm hoping they come up with more because my other offers are significantly better.

[ArizonaSecrets]

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

...and I get nervous when people are writing a school like this off so easily. Again, $ means more to me, so although I understand why people value Dozo so highly but I don't care as much about their ranking. I have heard from many people that they believe Dozo will continue to rise in NYC legal market.

I am having the same concerns. It seems that whenever I ask people in the legal profession about deciding between the lower ranked NY schools, I am always told to go where the money is. Will choosing BLS with slightly less than a full scholarship be more beneficial than going to another similarly ranked school with a full scholarship?

Is that similarly ranked school in NY? I think NY is a trump card. I also can't take a school in Queens or Nassau seriously (having grown up there and knowing it isn't really NYC). Although Dozo and Fordham aren't similarly ranked, it is my impression that law students at those schools compete with Brooklyn Law students. If I can get the same interviews at any of those three schools, I want to pay the least while doing so. That's why I'm leaning towards BLS.

[aresdude]

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

...and I get nervous when people are writing a school like this off so easily. Again, $ means more to me, so although I understand why people value Dozo so highly but I don't care as much about their ranking. I have heard from many people that they believe Dozo will continue to rise in NYC legal market.

I am having the same concerns. It seems that whenever I ask people in the legal profession about deciding between the lower ranked NY schools, I am always told to go where the money is. Will choosing BLS with slightly less than a full scholarship be more beneficial than going to another similarly ranked school with a full scholarship?

Is that similarly ranked school in NY? I think NY is a trump card. I also can't take a school in Queens or Nassau seriously (having grown up there and knowing it isn't really NYC). Although Dozo and Fordham aren't similarly ranked, it is my impression that law students at those schools compete with Brooklyn Law students. If I can get the same interviews at any of those three schools, I want to pay the least while doing so. That's why I'm leaning towards BLS.

What support do you have for this impression?

Edit: From any source I find the numbers are remarkably different. In terms of pure employment numbers a quick look at lsn shows 68% Brooklyn, 81% Cardozo, 86% Fordham. Different sources have different numbers, but the relative difference certainly does not confirm the same employment opportunities graduating from each school.

[Ms. B]

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

...and I get nervous when people are writing a school like this off so easily. Again, $ means more to me, so although I understand why people value Dozo so highly but I don't care as much about their ranking. I have heard from many people that they believe Dozo will continue to rise in NYC legal market.

I am having the same concerns. It seems that whenever I ask people in the legal profession about deciding between the lower ranked NY schools, I am always told to go where the money is. Will choosing BLS with slightly less than a full scholarship be more beneficial than going to another similarly ranked school with a full scholarship?

Is that similarly ranked school in NY? I think NY is a trump card. I also can't take a school in Queens or Nassau seriously (having grown up there and knowing it isn't really NYC). Although Dozo and Fordham aren't similarly ranked, it is my impression that law students at those schools compete with Brooklyn Law students. If I can get the same interviews at any of those three schools, I want to pay the least while doing so. That's why I'm leaning towards BLS.

What support do you have for this impression?

Edit: From any source I find the numbers are remarkably different. In terms of pure employment numbers a quick look at lsn shows 68% Brooklyn, 81% Cardozo, 86% Fordham. Different sources have different numbers, but the relative difference certainly does not confirm the same employment opportunities graduating from each school.

I was considering Cardozo too and actually really loved it when I visited. I had to rule it out though because they didn't give me as much money as BLS, Rutgers or St. Johns. I'm pretty sure that LSN just reports the employment rates the schools have advertised on their website (which are questionable to say the least). You should be looking at the ABA employment stats for 2011 which you can find on the ABA's website or at Law School Transparency. Law School Transparency gives an "Employment Rating" that only counts those who found "Long Term JD Required" work and all of these schools' scores in this respect hover around 50%--Cardozo included. The ABA confirms this statistic. Cardozo had a couple more students who found BigLaw positions if I'm remembering correctly, but other than that there was very little variation between Cardozo and BLS. I suppose it really depends on what you hope to do with your degree. Good luck!

[blackjesus]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Anyone had success negotiating with BLS for scholarship money this year?

[mfsnole]

Just withdrew today. $41K per year going back in the pool. Hope it goes to one of you guys!

[ArizonaSecrets]

The overall impression I've gotten is that the school is getting hit harder than its peers by this economy and may be on the decline for a while. My intuition tells me to write this school off, despite its proximity to NYC and reputation, but until I visit, I'm staying open-minded.

...and I get nervous when people are writing a school like this off so easily. Again, $ means more to me, so although I understand why people value Dozo so highly but I don't care as much about their ranking. I have heard from many people that they believe Dozo will continue to rise in NYC legal market.

I am having the same concerns. It seems that whenever I ask people in the legal profession about deciding between the lower ranked NY schools, I am always told to go where the money is. Will choosing BLS with slightly less than a full scholarship be more beneficial than going to another similarly ranked school with a full scholarship?

Is that similarly ranked school in NY? I think NY is a trump card. I also can't take a school in Queens or Nassau seriously (having grown up there and knowing it isn't really NYC). Although Dozo and Fordham aren't similarly ranked, it is my impression that law students at those schools compete with Brooklyn Law students. If I can get the same interviews at any of those three schools, I want to pay the least while doing so. That's why I'm leaning towards BLS.

What support do you have for this impression?

Edit: From any source I find the numbers are remarkably different. In terms of pure employment numbers a quick look at lsn shows 68% Brooklyn, 81% Cardozo, 86% Fordham. Different sources have different numbers, but the relative difference certainly does not confirm the same employment opportunities graduating from each school.

The impression that I had wasn't based on the statistics aligning perfectly, but one can tell by looking at the employment statistics that the schools are close to one another in that regard which may contribute to the feeling that students at all three schools gave me, regarding what other law school students they are competing against.

I didn't mean to imply that going to Brooklyn gives you the same chances of employment as Dozo and Fordham, but it isn't unreasonable to believe that all three schools provide their students with virtually the same opportunities in many cases. Maybe Brooklyn students get those jobs slightly less often, but that's not what I'm trying to argue.

[Mznyc1]

I submitted my application back on January 17th and have been in review since February 11th. There has been no movement since then. I am starting to get a little nervous. Is anyone else in a similar position?

[ArizonaSecrets]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Anyone had success negotiating with BLS for scholarship money this year?

Bump. Who did you email about your negotiations?

[nedzilla]

I have been impressed with the amount of in depth explanations Brooklyn has given regarding tuition and merit scholarship. Very nice to see that tuition is guaranteed fixed for all three years to ensure the integrity of the scholarship. I am also very intrigued by the "Loan Repayment Assistance Program," which claims that if merit scholarship is maintained for all three years, and if employment is sought but failed to be secured within 9 months after graduation, Brooklyn "will reimburse you for the full amount of your tuition payments, plus any accumulated interest on loans you have borrowed to cover tuition."

I plan on going to the Financial Aid 101 seminar and will inquire further about what "sought" employment actually includes, in terms of the types of jobs, and the narcissist in me initially questions why they have such a policy in the first place. However, I am still very impressed with such a progressive stance on law school tuition. Is this common for other schools?

[ArizonaSecrets]

I plan on going to the Financial Aid 101 seminar and will inquire further about what "sought" employment actually includes, in terms of the types of jobs, and the narcissist in me initially questions why they have such a policy in the first place. However, I am still very impressed with such a progressive stance on law school tuition. Is this common for other schools?

Please let us know what they say.

Does anybody else find it frustrating that all of their events take place on week days? Very tough for an out of stater with a job.

[jack5on]

I have been impressed with the amount of in depth explanations Brooklyn has given regarding tuition and merit scholarship. Very nice to see that tuition is guaranteed fixed for all three years to ensure the integrity of the scholarship. I am also very intrigued by the "Loan Repayment Assistance Program," which claims that if merit scholarship is maintained for all three years, and if employment is sought but failed to be secured within 9 months after graduation, Brooklyn "will reimburse you for the full amount of your tuition payments, plus any accumulated interest on loans you have borrowed to cover tuition."

I plan on going to the Financial Aid 101 seminar and will inquire further about what "sought" employment actually includes, in terms of the types of jobs, and the narcissist in me initially questions why they have such a policy in the first place. However, I am still very impressed with such a progressive stance on law school tuition. Is this common for other schools?

Beware the fine print....I'm not sure how they define "sought" and if you get a job as a legal assistant, for instance, (paying about 40k) you won't get reimbursed so....that's that.

I, unfortunately, couldn't disagree with you more about their "explanations" on tuition, fees, and lack of financial support. If you think of it as them selling you a mortgage, or a giving you a job offer, and are unwilling and unable to negotiate or consider concerns of the buyer (the accepted student) for every student....it shows how disconnected the administration is from the world outside their bubble.