Michigan (AKA Hogwarts) c/o 2016 Applicants Thread 2012-2013 Forum

[dolfan17]

Which schools did you guys use to raise your Mich aid?

Northwestern

Wow, nice! Other TLSers didn't get anywhere with their Northwestern aid, so I didn't think to try. Thanks for the tip.

I'm under the impression that your NU offer has to be quite substantially higher than your Mich offer for them to revise. like crazy high

edit: please correct me if I'm wrong though

My Northwestern award was more than double my original Michigan award so I guess that might be true.

[orbotop]

has there always been so much NU-UM "competition", for lack of a better word? lots of talk at ASW and other admitted students events about how it was a choice between NU and UM... i found this a bit strange, given the traditional tier was MVP, but maybe it's normal? totally anecdotally, i think UM is doing a poor job keeping its status among applicants as on par with V and P.

[BigZuck]

has there always been so much NU-UM "competition", for lack of a better word? lots of talk at ASW and other admitted students events about how it was a choice between NU and UM... i found this a bit strange, given the traditional tier was MVP, but maybe it's normal? totally anecdotally, i think UM is doing a poor job keeping its status among applicants as on par with V and P.

N and D have been placing on par or better than M and V so clearly this MVP thing is a made up TLS thing that doesn't matter and has nothing to do with job placement.

[JamesDean1955]

Outside of the TLS bubble, no one goes around saying or thinking about "CCN" or "MVP". People acknowledge that HYS are the elite of the elite, and that there is the rest of the T14 schools. That's it really.

Not to say that all non-HYS T14 schools are created equal, because looking at employment data that's clearly BS, but no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers.

[beepboopbeep]

Application finally complete! Can't wait to hear back two cycles from now when they finish reviewing my app.

FTFY

No joke. Anyone else have total radio silence still? Applied in early December.

[Ned Racine]

I have a gut feeling there will be movement today.

[UMich11]

I have a gut feeling there will be movement today.

Waitlist movement... i hope.

[Ned Racine]

Still Complete here..

[orbotop]

Do you mean to include adcoms as inside or outside the TLS bubble? Because there's lots of evidence that offers and financial aid decisions follow a HYS/CCN/MVP pattern. Ask UM to match an offer from VP, they've been known to break their "no negotiation" policy. Ask UM to match an offer from Duke or NU, good luck. Agree to disagree on "no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers." Columbia is on a different tier than Cornell.

Outside of the TLS bubble, no one goes around saying or thinking about "CCN" or "MVP". People acknowledge that HYS are the elite of the elite, and that there is the rest of the T14 schools. That's it really.

Not to say that all non-HYS T14 schools are created equal, because looking at employment data that's clearly BS, but no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers.

[BigZuck]

Do you mean to include adcoms as inside or outside the TLS bubble? Because there's lots of evidence that offers and financial aid decisions follow a HYS/CCN/MVP pattern. Ask UM to match an offer from VP, they've been known to break their "no negotiation" policy. Ask UM to match an offer from Duke or NU, good luck. Agree to disagree on "no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers." Columbia is on a different tier than Cornell.

Outside of the TLS bubble, no one goes around saying or thinking about "CCN" or "MVP". People acknowledge that HYS are the elite of the elite, and that there is the rest of the T14 schools. That's it really.

Not to say that all non-HYS T14 schools are created equal, because looking at employment data that's clearly BS, but no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers.

No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.

[curious66]

Do you mean to include adcoms as inside or outside the TLS bubble? Because there's lots of evidence that offers and financial aid decisions follow a HYS/CCN/MVP pattern. Ask UM to match an offer from VP, they've been known to break their "no negotiation" policy. Ask UM to match an offer from Duke or NU, good luck. Agree to disagree on "no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers." Columbia is on a different tier than Cornell.

Outside of the TLS bubble, no one goes around saying or thinking about "CCN" or "MVP". People acknowledge that HYS are the elite of the elite, and that there is the rest of the T14 schools. That's it really.

Not to say that all non-HYS T14 schools are created equal, because looking at employment data that's clearly BS, but no one other than TLS geeks gives any weight to these arbitrary tiers.

No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.

How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?

[beepboopbeep]

How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?

I think he just means getting 0/$ aid from UM versus $$$+ from Duke/etc.

[eph]

Silliest thing I've read this cycle.

Big Zuck if you get the chance change your qoute. You have me saying what you said. Thanks.

The decline in employment has little to do with Michigan which is a great school and much more to do with the reshaping of the entire legal industry. It is a tough time to pony up 200k to go to any school.

[curious66]

Ok, then maybe that makes sense.. but if so, the reverse logic also applys.. i.e. someone had $$ from Michigan and nothing from Duke, then the scales tip in Michigan's favor.. I don't think the job prospects are all that different between the two, correct? At least they don't seem all that crazy different on Law school transparency to justify paying sticker at Duke over Michigan. Thoughts anyone?

[BigZuck]

How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?

I think he just means getting 0/$ aid from UM versus $$$+ from Duke/etc.

Yes I am talking about that. Also Michigan is like 70K out of state and Duke is about 72.5k I believe unless there are new figures out there for each school.

[BigZuck]

No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.

Silliest thing I've read this cycle.[/quote]

Why is that silly?

[curious66]

How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?

I think he just means getting 0/$ aid from UM versus $$$+ from Duke/etc.

Yes I am talking about that. Also Michigan is like 70K out of state and Duke is about 72.5k I believe unless there are new figures out there for each school.

Duke is about $74,900 per their website and what they handed out at the April ASW. Michigan is no where near 70 from what I can calculate for out of state -- and that includes living in the apparently expensive Lawyers club.

[BigZuck]

How do you calculate that Duke is cheaper than Michigan? Duke COA = $74K (from the school website) vs. $66K (non resident) or so for Michigan? Am I missing something in the calculations?

I think he just means getting 0/$ aid from UM versus $$$+ from Duke/etc.

Yes I am talking about that. Also Michigan is like 70K out of state and Duke is about 72.5k I believe unless there are new figures out there for each school.

Duke is about $74,900 per their website and what they handed out at the April ASW. Michigan is no where near 70 from what I can calculate for out of state -- and that includes living in the apparently expensive Lawyers club.

Quick google search had this for Michigan at 70. http://www.law.umich.edu/financialaid/D ... budget.pdf

I didn't read what they had at ASW, last time I looked Duke was 72621. I'll have to look at their website again.

[BigZuck]

No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.

Silliest thing I've read this cycle.

Why is that silly?[/quote]

Talk about silly: Michigan explicitly told someone that they would not match a Duke offer because most people would choose Michigan over Duke. I guess they think that people choose worse weather and worse placement over a school that is cheaper.

Michigan won't even consider going up from 54K for someone who has 90K at Cornell. Both are frozen tundras but Cornell is cheaper and has placed the same or better recently. Why would someone pay like 20K more to go to Michigan in that scenario?

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

[eph]

Wow that's interesting. You have our quotes reversed.

[megagnarley]

No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.

Silliest thing I've read this cycle.

Why is that silly?

Talk about silly: Michigan explicitly told someone that they would not match a Duke offer because most people would choose Michigan over Duke. I guess they think that people choose worse weather and worse placement over a school that is cheaper.

Michigan won't even consider going up from 54K for someone who has 90K at Cornell. Both are frozen tundras but Cornell is cheaper and has placed the same or better recently. Why would someone pay like 20K more to go to Michigan in that scenario?

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.[/quote]

Credited. Mich flat out rejected me when I came to them with a higher Duke offer.

They are the Bono of law schools right now.

[CaptainLeela]

Welcome to TLS

[curious66]

No doubt some schools (looking at you, Michigan) have an inflated sense of self. But someday they will realize to drop the BS when all their good candidates choose NU or Duke or Cornell because those schools place better and are cheaper.

Silliest thing I've read this cycle.

Why is that silly?

Talk about silly: Michigan explicitly told someone that they would not match a Duke offer because most people would choose Michigan over Duke. I guess they think that people choose worse weather and worse placement over a school that is cheaper.
Michigan won't even consider going up from 54K for someone who has 90K at Cornell. Both are frozen tundras but Cornell is cheaper and has placed the same or better recently. Why would someone pay like 20K more to go to Michigan in that scenario?
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.[/quote]

Interesting and unfortunate I guess for the applicant. I had the reverse experience, no $ from Duke (still waiting to hear anything about aid from Cornell, so assume it is zero), but Michigan came through.

[04102014]

I realize this is going to get a lot of shit, but I think Michigan consciously doesn't raise scholarships to match lower-ranked schools because they don't want students who choose them simply because they are the highest bidder in their peer set or below. They place a lot of emphasis on taking students who actually want to be there, and I can say that, at least from my various law school visits, Michigan students fit a particular mold. Matching scholarships from higher-ranked schools makes sense if they're trying to get someone they like but who they know would otherwise never seriously consider them.

[smdpnp]

Nope.