Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013) Forum

[wisteria]

Here:

** For admitted students, if 2012 tax forms are not available by March 1, please submit complete 2011 tax forms by March 1, and complete 2012 tax forms by the end of April. Applicants to the J.D. program DO NOT need to submit tax returns unless they are admitted.

* The Financial Aid Questionnaire (FAQ) is mailed to entering J.D. students shortly after the offer of admission. If you are applying for a Law School grant, please submit it by March 1 or immediately after admission.

[nerv]

I'm pretty sure that they say on the website that they'll give you certain amount of time after admission to do all the finaid stuff. And it explicitly tells applicants who have yet to be accepted NOT to send them anything. I can find the link for you later when I have time. But it's probably a few clicks away if you look closer.

Here:

** For admitted students, if 2012 tax forms are not available by March 1, please submit complete 2011 tax forms by March 1, and complete 2012 tax forms by the end of April. Applicants to the J.D. program DO NOT need to submit tax returns unless they are admitted.

Right, I saw that part about the tax forms and the questionnaire, but does the same thing apply to need access and fafsa or do they want them by this week? And if I am going to send in the fafsa and need access for other schools right now, can I amend them later to add schools that I've been accepted to?

[ph5354a]

Right, I saw that part about the tax forms and the questionnaire, but does the same thing apply to need access and fafsa or do they want them by this week? And if I am going to send in the fafsa and need access for other schools right now, can I amend them later to add schools that I've been accepted to?

You can still "send" your FAFSA and Need Access to all the schools you've applied to even if you haven't heard back, but Columbia won't actually request it until you're admitted. I would do that now and save yourself the trouble of going back to add more schools later. You're not actually sending it directly to Columbia by doing that so there's no harm done.

[wisteria]

Right, I saw that part about the tax forms and the questionnaire, but does the same thing apply to need access and fafsa or do they want them by this week? And if I am going to send in the fafsa and need access for other schools right now, can I amend them later to add schools that I've been accepted to?

You can still "send" your FAFSA and Need Access to all the schools you've applied to even if you haven't heard back, but Columbia won't actually request it until you're admitted. I would do that now and save yourself the trouble of going back to add more schools later. You're not actually sending it directly to Columbia by doing that so there's no harm done.

agreed.

[nerv]

ty ty i understand now

[MacB]

I think grapefruits has a point here, however indelicately he/she may have put it. Why else would law schools so prominently display all those fun statements on their websites like "our incoming class represents X number of countries, X number of states, alllllllllllll of the following foreign languages, etc"? There is more to creating an impressive incoming class than just numbers. They do want to put together a diverse class w/ the highest numbers, no doubt, but if you bust their medians and don't possess any other soft characteristics that they are specifically looking for, I can easily see an adcomm WLing a numerically competitive applicant. As for taking that personally... I would recommend against that. Maybe an applicant has all kinds of interesting soft factors, but the school has already admitted other kids w/ similar softs earlier in the cycle and that specific later applicant just doesn't offer anything unique in that cycle.

As far as data, I think we're seeing at least some anecdotal evidence that adcomms WL/deny applicants with above median numbers right here on TLS.

ETA: looking back at it, I realize that ph was probably saying that he/she would like to see some data on the extent to which this happens, not that he/she was doubting that it actually happens. ...my bad.

[annieT]

.

[ph5354a]

ETA: looking back at it, I realize that ph was probably saying that he/she would like to see some data on the extent to which this happens, not that he/she was doubting that it actually happens. ...my bad.

Haha, exactly. I was also raising issue with the "happens all the time" statement. And it's not like these holds are dings by any means, it just seems strange to have so many median or median+ candidates in this wave. Has anyone figured out if this happened last year or not?

[abcde12345]

I think grapefruits has a point here, however indelicately he/she may have put it. Why else would law schools so prominently display all those fun statements on their websites like "our incoming class represents X number of countries, X number of states, alllllllllllll of the following foreign languages, etc"? There is more to creating an impressive incoming class than just numbers. They do want to put together a diverse class w/ the highest numbers, no doubt, but if you bust their medians and don't possess any other soft characteristics that they are specifically looking for, I can easily see an adcomm WLing a numerically competitive applicant. As for taking that personally... I would recommend against that. Maybe an applicant has all kinds of interesting soft factors, but the school has already admitted other kids w/ similar softs earlier in the cycle and that specific later applicant just doesn't offer anything unique in that cycle.

As far as data, I think we're seeing at least some anecdotal evidence that adcomms WL/deny applicants with above median numbers right here on TLS.

ETA: looking back at it, I realize that ph was probably saying that he/she would like to see some data on the extent to which this happens, not that he/she was doubting that it actually happens. ...my bad.

I agree, and I learned it the hard way. I think TLS ultimately overrates numbers. I have no serious character flaws, but I think a mediocre (or, perhaps, a risky) application ultimately hurt me. I'm way underperforming my numbers.

But as for ph's point; ph is right, by and large. For instance, people with numbers ranging from 172-174 and 3.9-4.1 have an 83% acceptance rate to Columbia. Up those numbers to 175-177 to and you get a 90% acceptance rate. This clearly shows that grapefruit's point is hyperbole: above median people are hardly rejected "all the time." But it certainly does happen.

[jbagelboy]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

[ph5354a]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

I feel you. Do you have your parents 2011 return? Since you didn't file in 2011 that should appease them for now. Also, why is the FAQ not available online anywhere??

[MCFC]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

I'm not sure which FAQ you're referring to, but I would think there's a decent chance it's online.

[ManOfTheMinute]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

I feel you. Do you have your parents 2011 return? Since you didn't file in 2011 that should appease them for now. Also, why is the FAQ not available online anywhere??

Do you 2012 taxes... then your 2011 taxes don't matter.

Also, blame the Romans.

[jym_dawg]

For all the people who are just absolutely shocked by being held/dinged: schools deny people above their medians all the time. It isn't unusual. More than likely, it means you are not the kind of person they are looking for, at least in a "first round" pick. Go outside.

I'd love to see some data on this.

LSN graphs show that not a single person who was at or above both medians at Columbia was dinged last cycle. Two years ago, two people were dinged at or above both medians. Out of a sample size of XXXX.

[jbagelboy]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

I'm not sure which FAQ you're referring to, but I would think there's a decent chance it's online.

It's not online.. it's "mailed to entering JD students". probably been lying around for weeks. http://web.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... stionnaire
so I'll call them and ask for a new one. and ask whether they ever received my FAFSA and if they'll accept it late

[jbagelboy]

For all the people who are just absolutely shocked by being held/dinged: schools deny people above their medians all the time. It isn't unusual. More than likely, it means you are not the kind of person they are looking for, at least in a "first round" pick. Go outside.

I'd love to see some data on this.

LSN graphs show that not a single person who was at or above both medians at Columbia was dinged last cycle. Two years ago, two people were dinged at or above both medians. Out of a sample size of XXXX.

this is incredibly deceptive since the majority of people who were held or WL'd and never made it in over the summer probably didn't come back to enter in that information

[MacB]

LSN is essentially a voluntary response survey... not to suggest that it is of no value, but I would proceed w/ caution when it comes to drawing conclusions based on the data found there.

[jym_dawg]

For all the people who are just absolutely shocked by being held/dinged: schools deny people above their medians all the time. It isn't unusual. More than likely, it means you are not the kind of person they are looking for, at least in a "first round" pick. Go outside.

I'd love to see some data on this.

LSN graphs show that not a single person who was at or above both medians at Columbia was dinged last cycle. Two years ago, two people were dinged at or above both medians. Out of a sample size of XXXX.

this is incredibly deceptive since the majority of people who were held or WL'd and never made it in over the summer probably didn't come back to enter in that information

You're right, but we're just working with the (limited) info we have. Nobody disputes that schools reject applicants above their medians sometimes, but there isn't evidence to support grapefruit's claim that it happens "all the time."

[hinakas]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

I'm not sure which FAQ you're referring to, but I would think there's a decent chance it's online.

It's not online.. it's "mailed to entering JD students". probably been lying around for weeks. http://web.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... stionnaire
so I'll call them and ask for a new one. and ask whether they ever received my FAFSA and if they'll accept it late

Just FYI, the FAQ actually is available online (it better be because that's where I got mine). Go to the admitted students website, Financial Aid section. On the front page, you can download the FAQ.

[lawprospie]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

You do know that there is a FASA Pin reminder thing and you can see your pin immediately, right?

[MCFC]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

I'm not sure which FAQ you're referring to, but I would think there's a decent chance it's online.

It's not online.. it's "mailed to entering JD students". probably been lying around for weeks. http://web.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... stionnaire
so I'll call them and ask for a new one. and ask whether they ever received my FAFSA and if they'll accept it late

Is this what you are referring to?
https://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/defa ... nnaire.pdf

(You might have to login to get there.)

[jbagelboy]

I'm so balled on Financial Aid. Lost my FAFSA PIN so I had to apply for a new one and I don't know how long it will take (I completed FAFSA weeks ago but it says "missing signature".. did the schools ever receive even a preliminary version??). Also I may have lost the Columbia financial aid FAQ in all the admissions crap they sent which is sprawled all over my room. And I did not file taxes for 2011, and my 2012 ones aren't filed yet. And all this must be figured out by... Friday, since February is a short month for no reason. ugh.

I'm not sure which FAQ you're referring to, but I would think there's a decent chance it's online.

It's not online.. it's "mailed to entering JD students". probably been lying around for weeks. http://web.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... stionnaire
so I'll call them and ask for a new one. and ask whether they ever received my FAFSA and if they'll accept it late

Just FYI, the FAQ actually is available online (it better be because that's where I got mine). Go to the admitted students website, Financial Aid section. On the front page, you can download the FAQ.

so it is! hadn't checked the admitted students site. thank you!

[jbagelboy]

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[abcde12345]

LSN is essentially a voluntary response survey... not to suggest that it is of no value, but I would proceed w/ caution when it comes to drawing conclusions based on the data found there.

Of course. But there are reasons to think LSN gives a good (albeit a rough) picture. Putting aside the obvious assumptions (schools wish to retain/increase medians; how do they do this? etc.) there is often self-reporting on TLS that backs LSN up. Take a look at the held spreadsheet compiled in this very thread

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... pMHc#gid=0

Often the criticism of LSN is that only successes report. But here we have an example of people reporting who haven't (at least yet) performed as well as they hoped. And let's take a look at the medians: Columbia's 2011 median is 3.7 172. Only 8/57 held applicants are at or above Columbia's median. This correlates well with LSN.

[battlerifle13]

this is incredibly deceptive since the majority of people who were held or WL'd and never made it in over the summer probably didn't come back to enter in that information

You're right, but we're just working with the (limited) info we have. Nobody disputes that schools reject applicants above their medians sometimes, but there isn't evidence to support grapefruit's claim that it happens "all the time."

Either way, most people held at Columbia are not above both medians, and in fact are way below the median in at least one category (based on that excel sheet). There are a few exceptions of course, but this discussion seems pointless. There is no crazy theory behind what Columbia is doing.