SMU Dedman applicants c/o 2019 (2015-2016) Forum

[p1921]

Just found out that SMU is nixing its part-time evening program. I'll share more once I receive information through the official channels.

Official channels has already released a statement, yesterday.

[ChampionshipPressure]

Just found out that SMU is nixing its part-time evening program. I'll share more once I receive information through the official channels.

Official channels has already released a statement, yesterday.

Do you have a link? It's not listed on the law.smu.edu website.

[trmckenz]

Just found out that SMU is nixing its part-time evening program. I'll share more once I receive information through the official channels.

Official channels has already released a statement, yesterday.

True, I have the school's statement that was released internally at SMU, but I, as a part-time applicant, have not received anything directly from the school. I called today, and they said they cannot speak to me about it, and instead asked me to send an email (which I promptly did).

Thanks for waiting until April, SMU.

[BVest]

The internal communication indicates they may still allow some part-time students but they'd be integrated into the day program.

[thisiswater]

fuck it, i'll post the email that went out to current students

[+] Spoiler

Dear members of the law school community: I am writing to let you know that the faculty has made the difficult decision not to enroll a new class of evening students for the 2016-17 academic year. Although our applications are up significantly overall this year (and up more than both the national and regional average), applications to our evening program continue to decline. We treasure both our current evening students and our evening program alumni, and we are absolutely committed to ensuring that our current evening students continue to enjoy an outstanding academic and extracurricular experience. But our full-time sections are simply growing too large as a result of the decline in evening enrollment, and we believe that we will best serve the largest number of students by having three right-sized day sections next year, instead of two very large day sections and one very small evening section.

Deans Steve Yeager, Becca Henley and I will be in Florence 201 tonight at 5:30 to talk to any students who have any questions or concerns about this decision. If you cannot make it tonight, please know that our doors are always open and we will be happy to speak with you at another time if that is more convenient for you. We have also attempted to answer some questions you might have about this decision in more detail below. Thank you all so much for being part of the SMU Dedman School of Law community.

Why is the law school not admitting a new class of evening students this fall?

This was a very difficult decision reached after months of study and analysis. Like virtually every law school, we have seen a significant decline in applications to our evening program. For example, Texas A&M has made the decision to suspend its evening program. Suspending our program for the fall will enable us to monitor market conditions going forward and reassess as appropriate.

Our evening enrollment has dropped from a high of 97 students entering the evening program in 2008 to only 26 students entering the program in our current first-year class. At the same time, we are seeing a significant increase in applications to our full-time day program. As a result, our two sections for day students are now larger than we would ideally like them to be, and we don’t want to have to turn away outstanding candidates because there is simply no more room.

We currently have two very large day sections and one very small evening section. We believe this decision will enable us to operate three appropriately-sized day sections next fall and, ultimately, make our excellent program of legal education available to more students.

What will happen to the students currently enrolled in the evening program?

We are committed to fully teaching out the evening program for our current students and will, of course, continue to offer them outstanding curriculum options, career placement assistance and student services support.

Will courses continue to be offered in the evening?

Absolutely. SMU has an incredibly robust slate of courses taught by adjunct professors who are primarily practicing attorneys. The best time for many of them to teach is in the evening and they will continue to do so. We will also continue to offer the courses in the evening that our current evening students need to complete their program of study.

I have a friend who really wants to attend SMU but only wants to go part-time. Is there an option for him or her?

Yes, we will continue to offer our reduced load program to well-qualified applicants.


Jennifer M. Collins
Judge James Noel Dean and Professor of Law

obvs. they're teaching my class out. most evening kids quit their jobs (if they had one when they came in) by the second or third year and start taking day classes because there is just so much never offered at night. for most people this won't change much, but for my classmates who plan to work full time all 4 years, there is real concern about what kind of class options they will have

[trmckenz]

WRT the part-time evening program...

"This was a very difficult decision reached after months of study and analysis. Like virtually every law school, we have seen a significant decline in applications to our evening program. For example, Texas A&M has made the decision to suspend its evening program. Suspending our program for the fall will enable us to monitor market conditions going forward and reassess as appropriate.

Our evening enrollment has dropped from a high of 97 students entering the evening program in 2008 to only 26 students entering the program in our current first-year class. At the same time, we are seeing a significant increase in applications to our full-time day program. As a result, our two sections for day students are now larger than we would ideally like them to be, and we don’t want to have to turn away outstanding candidates because there is simply no more room.

We currently have two very large day sections and one very small evening section. We believe this decision will enable us to operate three appropriately-sized day sections next fall and, ultimately, make our excellent program of legal education available to more students.

There will be an option to take a reduced load, but these classes will be offered during the day.

I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. If there is any way that you might be able to apply to FT, I am happy to change your file from PT to FT."

[Stevoman]

Sad to hear the PT program is going, but I can say that the PT program made getting the exact class schedule you wanted a total pain in the ass for both PT and FT students.

I'm a May 15 grad and can second everything that Kalvano said, especially about Career Services. They are completely useless. Statistically, you will not find a job through them. I stopped going to their "mandatory" things after the first few.

Now, it's kind of ironic that I'm saying that, since I did find a job through them. That being said, I only found a job through them because the place that hired me had to go back to CS after a few attempts at finding someone with my skill set. After enough pushing back, CS finally gave them my info. Why the push-back? Simple: I was a first year. I have no proof, but there's about a 99% chance that CS was trying to get them to hire someone closer to graduation. There was a horror story from the year before me where CS allegedly tanked a job offer that someone graduating in the bottom half of the class had, so that they could push some unemployed kids with higher grades onto that employer (looks bad to have the top of your class unemployed).

What's my point? My point is that Career Services looks out for the school not for you. If you're in a position where they can help you, then fine, take advantage of them. If you are not, then do not count on them, and do not tell then who hired you. They'll try hard to make you divulge that, believe me. They want to take credit for that placement. Don't let them.

I love SMU law, but their Career Services is a joke.

[trmckenz]

I'm actually pleased that the PT program is going away as well, as I think it drags down SMU's ranking too much. I've wanted to go FT for networking purposes, but my boss (SMU grad) wanted me to apply PT so that I can keep working full time, and there's really no reason for me to stop working. My application has now been switched to FT under the reduced load option, so I'll keep everyone posted as to how it pans out. I'm unsure how this option would be billed to me (FT or PT tuition?), as well as how it will affect my scholarship considerations...

[trmckenz]

Finally accepted to FT reduced load via phone call... no scholarship amount yet, but will be applied on a prorated per-hour basis.

[PatriotP74]

Finally accepted to FT reduced load via phone call... no scholarship amount yet, but will be applied on a prorated per-hour basis.

Congrats!!!

[BeatriceButler]

Finally accepted to FT reduced load via phone call... no scholarship amount yet, but will be applied on a prorated per-hour basis.

Congrats!!!

Congrats! Welcome to the party.

[texasrangersjb]

anyone know what job they want after LS or during LS summers?

[BeatriceButler]

anyone know what job they want after LS or during LS summers?

I clerk for a litigation boutique right now, and plan to continue doing that during summers throughout LS.

As far as after law school I'm still undecided, but I've heard from others that my opportunities will probably be largely driven by my grades.

Would consider big law if I have the grades, but def would still consider other options too. Pretty interested in litigation, and think I would enjoy the smaller firm lifestyle more. Will probably come down to one or the other unless I have some major epiphany while in LS.

Would love to hear what everyone else is interested in.

[ChampionshipPressure]

anyone know what job they want after LS or during LS summers?

I clerk for a litigation boutique right now, and plan to continue doing that during summers throughout LS.

As far as after law school I'm still undecided, but I've heard from others that my opportunities will probably be largely driven by my grades.

Would consider big law if I have the grades, but def would still consider other options too. Pretty interested in litigation, and think I would enjoy the smaller firm lifestyle more. Will probably come down to one or the other unless I have some major epiphany while in LS.

Would love to hear what everyone else is interested in.

I know what the chances are for federal clerkships, but clerking and then big law are my general plans. I know what the odds are for this path out of SMU, so I'll keep all options on the table. In-house or consulting look like great paths, but those take years of experience. Idk exactly what I'm going to do the summer between 1L and 2L, but I know 2L summer I'd like to do an SA position in downtown Dallas. Ultimately my goal is commercial lit or something related.

[thetravelinglawyer]

At the moment planning to go solo after LS, so for summers my goal is just making as much money as possible so I can graduate with no debt. That said I am keeping my mind open, if I fall in love with some specific area I wouldn't be closed off to any path. I would love to do a clerkship, but I know that is a slim chance at SMU.

[p1921]

At the moment planning to go solo after LS, so for summers my goal is just making as much money as possible so I can graduate with no debt. That said I am keeping my mind open, if I fall in love with some specific area I wouldn't be closed off to any path. I would love to do a clerkship, but I know that is a slim chance at SMU.

I would not recommend trying to go solo immediately after law school. Some people do and do fine, but law school teaches you practically nothing about being a lawyer. It teaches you the theory behind the law. It does not teach you how to actually file anything, handle clients, etc. Law schools exams will want you to discuss various parts of the law. A client will come in and tell you what has happened to them and expect you to fix it. The difference between these two scenarios is a lot more vast than you think it is. That's why pretty much everyone realizes they need to put some time in somewhere else first. If you want to break off and do your own thing in a few years after that, great.

[kalvano]

Words cannot express how unprepared you will be to go solo immediately after graduation.

[thetravelinglawyer]

Appreciate the advice, I am well aware (or at least I have heard enough times and believe it) how little I will learn about real world lawyering from law school. I don't really know how to explain myself or why this is my plan without going into a ton of very personal detail about my specific situation, you can PM me if you want the full story. I am an extremely non-traditional student and what I plan to do is a very niche, unusual field of practice. If the circumstances work out that I can clerk and/or work in a firm for awhile first, I would love to get that experience, but I don't know if that will be possible based on my weird situation. I am definitely going to be focused on getting as much real-world experience as possible while in school though via the clinics, externships/in-house program, summer jobs, etc and I'm going to try to set myself up as a good candidate for a firm job with good grades, LR, summer work, all that stuff just in case I decide to go that route. Plus a lot can change in three years, maybe come graduation I'll want that sweet $160k This is partly why I want to graduate with no debt - to give myself flexibility to do whatever.

[p1921]

Appreciate the advice, I am well aware (or at least I have heard enough times and believe it) how little I will learn about real world lawyering from law school. I don't really know how to explain myself or why this is my plan without going into a ton of very personal detail about my specific situation, you can PM me if you want the full story. I am an extremely non-traditional student and what I plan to do is a very niche, unusual field of practice. If the circumstances work out that I can clerk and/or work in a firm for awhile first, I would love to get that experience, but I don't know if that will be possible based on my weird situation. I am definitely going to be focused on getting as much real-world experience as possible while in school though via the clinics, externships/in-house program, summer jobs, etc and I'm going to try to set myself up as a good candidate for a firm job with good grades, LR, summer work, all that stuff just in case I decide to go that route. Plus a lot can change in three years, maybe come graduation I'll want that sweet $160k This is partly why I want to graduate with no debt - to give myself flexibility to do whatever.

Look, that's all well and good. And your personal story isn't my business. But any attorney you talk to will tell you that your first couple YEARS after law school you're getting trained because you graduate knowing nothing about actually practicing law. You're right, plans change. But I feel obligated to inform you how improbable your chances of success are with this plan. Don't go into this with blinders on. Be realistic.

[texasrangersjb]

anyone shooting for Big Law?

[kalvano]

What area you want to practice in is kind of irrelevant to the first couple years. Yes, you'll learn substantive stuff, but it's the client interaction, asinine client requests and demands, and the administrative stuff that will absolutely murder you.

[thetravelinglawyer]

Like I said, if I can put in a few years of firm experience first, I would like that. I definitely hear what you guys are saying and I know that is the most advisable path.

[PatriotP74]

anyone shooting for Big Law?

I wouldn't mind clerkship > biglaw but I'm open.

We should move this discussion over to the admitted students section since we are all admits/alumni!

[texasrangersjb]

anyone shooting for Big Law?

I wouldn't mind clerkship > biglaw but I'm open.

We should move this discussion over to the admitted students section since we are all admits/alumni!

I agree, can someone post the link to that?

edit: Nvm, http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=261215

[tcufrog1873]

Went complete on 4/12 and still have not heard anything. The website states that decisions will be made by the end of April. Because it is already May 2, I am wondering if I should contact the admission's office or not? Any suggestions?