Harvard 2012 applicants (class of 2015) Forum

[Blessedassurance]

I'm way behind on the abbreviations - what's KB1?

--LinkRemoved--

KB is the initials of the interviewer (Karen Buttenbaum) for this year.

A KB2 is the second call to inform you of your admission.

[Byzantine]

Submitted 12/27/2011. Went Under review 1/11/2012.

176/170 LSAT. 3.95 GPA. Decent softs.

Anyone feel like reading the tea leaves for me?

[crooked]

Submitted 12/27/2011. Went Under review 1/11/2012.

176/170 LSAT. 3.95 GPA. Decent softs.

Anyone feel like reading the tea leaves for me?

Signs point to yes. Do you have work experience or are you K-JD? That seems to have had an impact this cycle.

[Elliott_Smith]

I'm way behind on the abbreviations - what's KB1?

--LinkRemoved--

KB is the initials of the interviewer (Karen Buttenbaum) for this year.

A KB2 is the second call to inform you of your admission.

Sweet, thanks. How have the interviews been going for people? How much advance warning do you get?

[Byzantine]

Submitted 12/27/2011. Went Under review 1/11/2012.

176/170 LSAT. 3.95 GPA. Decent softs.

Anyone feel like reading the tea leaves for me?

Signs point to yes. Do you have work experience or are you K-JD? That seems to have had an impact this cycle.

Thanks for the response! I have a M.A. and one year of WE at non-profit in DC. However, I didn't really tailor my application as HLS isn't my first choice, and I didn't know if my retake LSAT would be good enough.

What's the typical turnaround between UR and KB1?

[hypothalamus]

"Complete" email just in!

Submit 12/23, UR 1/4, Complete 1/11.

Except now when there is radio silence for me, that will mean they actually hate me, rather than they haven't gotten around to reading my app (

[Byzantine]

"Complete" email just in!

Submit 12/23, UR 1/4, Complete 1/11.

Except now when there is radio silence for me, that will mean they actually hate me, rather than they haven't gotten around to reading my app (

I've got a similar timeline. Best of luck!

[Blessedassurance]

Sweet, thanks. How have the interviews been going for people? How much advance warning do you get?

Standard questions. Generally, what are you currently doing, why law, why Harvard, do you have any questions?

The last time I saw the numbers, approximately 1000 - 1200 get the KB1 out of which approximately 800 get in and approximately 550 or so, matriculate.

It's not a grueling interview or anything, in fact it's almost informal. Just don't be a law student about it. Mine lasted all of 5 minutes and I got in. If you scroll through the threads, you'll get a general idea.

[crooked]

Submitted 12/27/2011. Went Under review 1/11/2012.

176/170 LSAT. 3.95 GPA. Decent softs.

Anyone feel like reading the tea leaves for me?

Signs point to yes. Do you have work experience or are you K-JD? That seems to have had an impact this cycle.

Thanks for the response! I have a M.A. and one year of WE at non-profit in DC. However, I didn't really tailor my application as HLS isn't my first choice, and I didn't know if my retake LSAT would be good enough.

What's the typical turnaround between UR and KB1?

I don't know about the timeline, but conventional wisdom is that it's not worth it to tailor your application to HLS - they assume that most applicants if accepted would attend.

[Byzantine]

Submitted 12/27/2011. Went Under review 1/11/2012.

176/170 LSAT. 3.95 GPA. Decent softs.

Anyone feel like reading the tea leaves for me?

Signs point to yes. Do you have work experience or are you K-JD? That seems to have had an impact this cycle.

Thanks for the response! I have a M.A. and one year of WE at non-profit in DC. However, I didn't really tailor my application as HLS isn't my first choice, and I didn't know if my retake LSAT would be good enough.

What's the typical turnaround between UR and KB1?

I don't know about the timeline, but conventional wisdom is that it's not worth it to tailor your application to HLS - they assume that most applicants if accepted would attend.

That's very true. Also, what do you say in a "Why Harvard" statement? "I want to go to the best school possible?"

I'd be very torn in I got in, between something lower with $$$ versus HLS. But how do you assign monetary value to having a J.D. from Harvard? You're in classes with future presidents and Supreme court justices, or going to hear a Tony Blair lecture on a given weeknight.

[Nelson]

I'd be very torn in I got in, between something lower with $$$ versus HLS. But how do you assign monetary value to having a J.D. from Harvard? You're in classes with future presidents and Supreme court justices, or going to hear a Tony Blair lecture on a given weeknight.

Between Harvard's tuition replacement for any kind of legal work (not just PI) and their reputation for fairly generous financial aid, this seems like a no brainer unless you're comparing to one of the CCN full rides.

[1212]

To all my friends who have been held:

I am on a trip with my school touring the northeast law schools. We were at HLS yesterday and I asked the admissions rep about being held. I just wanted to share our conversation because it eased some of my concerns and may help others. 

Me: "Will you talk more about the hold process? What does it mean?'

Admissions Rep: "A hold means we are interested, but we aren't quite ready to make a decision in either direction. We need to see the entire applicant pool. We like this candidate, but we arent sure yet. By May 1st, at the latest, all holds will be informed of their status."

Me: "When do y'all begin looking at the hold list to fill your class?"

Admissions Rep: "once we receive ALL (emphasis is mine) the applications we look at our class and determine what we are missing. If we see that we've admitted a class that's unbalance in some way (read: how are their numbers looking, how many minorities, women, etc are represented, do they have people from all over the country, etc), then we go to the hold list. If we need higher GPAs, we look for that in our hold pooL If we need more women then we look for that in our hold pool.

Me: "What are the most effective things we can do to stand out In the hold pool?"

Admissions Rep: "Right, good question because we don't rank the hold applicants. They're all on a level playing field. There are things we look for in the hold pool that are beyond your control (i.e. we need more women, an youre a male). But what is always helpful is updating your transcript if your GPA has increased. "Harvard is my first choice" essays are not helpful. Additional letters of rec are not helpful unless they say something new and different from what your other LORs said. If you have done something different or interesting with your time since you applied, that can be helpful as well. If you were held, it means you are competitive with what you sent in originally so apart from an updated transcript if your gpa improved, other supplements aren't imperative."

So this made me feel a bit better about being held. HTH!! Also, in a separate conversation with an HBS ad rep, she said that HLS is really pushing for more WE in their student body. In the HLS informational where the exchange I described in detail above occurred, she mentioned no less than three times how much HLS encourages WE. I'm a K-JD myself but hopefully this helps!

Edited: Fixed spelling errors. Apologies! Typed this on my phone!!

[crooked]

To all my friends who have been held:

I am on a trip with my school touring the northeast law schools. We were at HLS yesterday and I asked the admissions rep about being held. I just wante to share our conversation because it eased some of my concerns and may help others. 

Me: "Will you talk more about the hold process? What does it mean?'

Admissions Rep: "A hold means we are interested, but we aren't quite ready to make a decision in either direction. We need to see the entire applicant pool. We like this candidate, but we arent sure yet. By May 1st, at the latest, all holds will be informed of their status."

Me: "When do y'all begin looking at the hold list to fill your class?"

Admissions Rep: "once we receive ALL (emphasis is mine) the applications we look at our class and determine what we are missing. If we see that we've admitted a class that's unbalance in some way (read: how are their numbers looking, how many minorities, women, etc are represented, do they have people from all over the country, etc), then we go to the hold list. If we need higher GPAs, we look for that in our hold pool. If we need more women then we look for that in our hold pool.

Me: "What are the most effective things we can do to stand out In the hold pool?"

Admissions Rep: "Right, good question because we don't rank the hold applicants. They're all on a level playing field. There are things we look for in the hold pool that are beyond your control (i.e. we need more women, an youre a male). But what is always helpful is updating your transcript if your GPA has increased. "Harvard is my first choice" essays are not helpful. Additional letters of rec are not helpful unless they say something new and different from what your other LORs said. If you have done something different or interesting with your time since you applied, that can be helpful as well. If you were held, it means you are competitive with what you sent in originally so apart from an updated transcript if your gpa improved, other supplements aren't imperative."

So this made me feel a bit better about being held. HTH!! Also, in a separate conversation with an HBS ad rep, she said that HLS is really pushing for more WE in their student body. In the HLS informational where the exchange I described in detail above occurred, she mentioned no less the three times how much HLS encourages WE. I'm a K-JD myself but hopefully this helps!

Thanks for asking! I'm sort of surprised they were so open about it.

[Nelson]

Also, in a separate conversation with an HBS ad rep, she said that HLS is really pushing for more WE in their student body. In the HLS informational where the exchange I described in detail above occurred, she mentioned no less the three times how much HLS encourages WE.

This matches up to some of the anecdotes in this thread about some high numbers straight rejections for K-JDs. Could give a little extra hope to borderline candidates with some WE.

[icedflames]

To all my friends who have been held:

I am on a trip with my school touring the northeast law schools. We were at HLS yesterday and I asked the admissions rep about being held. I just wante to share our conversation because it eased some of my concerns and may help others. 

Me: "Will you talk more about the hold process? What does it mean?'

Admissions Rep: "A hold means we are interested, but we aren't quite ready to make a decision in either direction. We need to see the entire applicant pool. We like this candidate, but we arent sure yet. By May 1st, at the latest, all holds will be informed of their status."

Me: "When do y'all begin looking at the hold list to fill your class?"

Admissions Rep: "once we receive ALL (emphasis is mine) the applications we look at our class and determine what we are missing. If we see that we've admitted a class that's unbalance in some way (read: how are their numbers looking, how many minorities, women, etc are represented, do they have people from all over the country, etc), then we go to the hold list. If we need higher GPAs, we look for that in our hold pool. If we need more women then we look for that in our hold pool.

Me: "What are the most effective things we can do to stand out In the hold pool?"

Admissions Rep: "Right, good question because we don't rank the hold applicants. They're all on a level playing field. There are things we look for in the hold pool that are beyond your control (i.e. we need more women, an youre a male). But what is always helpful is updating your transcript if your GPA has increased. "Harvard is my first choice" essays are not helpful. Additional letters of rec are not helpful unless they say something new and different from what your other LORs said. If you have done something different or interesting with your time since you applied, that can be helpful as well. If you were held, it means you are competitive with what you sent in originally so apart from an updated transcript if your gpa improved, other supplements aren't imperative."

So this made me feel a bit better about being held. HTH!! Also, in a separate conversation with an HBS ad rep, she said that HLS is really pushing for more WE in their student body. In the HLS informational where the exchange I described in detail above occurred, she mentioned no less the three times how much HLS encourages WE. I'm a K-JD myself but hopefully this helps!

Thanks a lot for this! I've been checking for any movement for people held, but it looks like we arent going to see any after next month.

[fingerscrossedxx]

To all my friends who have been held:

I am on a trip with my school touring the northeast law schools. We were at HLS yesterday and I asked the admissions rep about being held. I just wante to share our conversation because it eased some of my concerns and may help others. 

Me: "Will you talk more about the hold process? What does it mean?'

Admissions Rep: "A hold means we are interested, but we aren't quite ready to make a decision in either direction. We need to see the entire applicant pool. We like this candidate, but we arent sure yet. By May 1st, at the latest, all holds will be informed of their status."

Me: "When do y'all begin looking at the hold list to fill your class?"

Admissions Rep: "once we receive ALL (emphasis is mine) the applications we look at our class and determine what we are missing. If we see that we've admitted a class that's unbalance in some way (read: how are their numbers looking, how many minorities, women, etc are represented, do they have people from all over the country, etc), then we go to the hold list. If we need higher GPAs, we look for that in our hold pool. If we need more women then we look for that in our hold pool.

Me: "What are the most effective things we can do to stand out In the hold pool?"

Admissions Rep: "Right, good question because we don't rank the hold applicants. They're all on a level playing field. There are things we look for in the hold pool that are beyond your control (i.e. we need more women, an youre a male). But what is always helpful is updating your transcript if your GPA has increased. "Harvard is my first choice" essays are not helpful. Additional letters of rec are not helpful unless they say something new and different from what your other LORs said. If you have done something different or interesting with your time since you applied, that can be helpful as well. If you were held, it means you are competitive with what you sent in originally so apart from an updated transcript if your gpa improved, other supplements aren't imperative."

So this made me feel a bit better about being held. HTH!! Also, in a separate conversation with an HBS ad rep, she said that HLS is really pushing for more WE in their student body. In the HLS informational where the exchange I described in detail above occurred, she mentioned no less the three times how much HLS encourages WE. I'm a K-JD myself but hopefully this helps!

Thanks for asking! I'm sort of surprised they were so open about it.

Thanks for asking indeed! This is great, makes me almost wish for a hold now!

[Byzantine]

I'd be very torn in I got in, between something lower with $$$ versus HLS. But how do you assign monetary value to having a J.D. from Harvard? You're in classes with future presidents and Supreme court justices, or going to hear a Tony Blair lecture on a given weeknight.

Between Harvard's tuition replacement for any kind of legal work (not just PI) and their reputation for fairly generous financial aid, this seems like a no brainer unless you're comparing to one of the CCN full rides.

From HLS Financial Aid Website: "The Low Income Protection Plan (LIPP) addresses this problem by extending financial assistance from the Law School for many years beyond graduation. LIPP is an income-contingent loan repayment assistance program for graduates in public service or law-related private sector jobs – in other words, LIPP helps eligible graduates repay their loans. Unlike public interest scholarships, LIPP requires no “up front” commitment to public service work. Any Harvard Law School J.D. program graduate can qualify for LIPP assistance to repay eligible education loans."

Anyone know 1) how Harvard's program compares to similar ones, say, Yale's, and 2) how low of an income you need to qualify?

[Curious1]

I'd be very torn in I got in, between something lower with $$$ versus HLS. But how do you assign monetary value to having a J.D. from Harvard? You're in classes with future presidents and Supreme court justices, or going to hear a Tony Blair lecture on a given weeknight.

Between Harvard's tuition replacement for any kind of legal work (not just PI) and their reputation for fairly generous financial aid, this seems like a no brainer unless you're comparing to one of the CCN full rides.

From HLS Financial Aid Website: "The Low Income Protection Plan (LIPP) addresses this problem by extending financial assistance from the Law School for many years beyond graduation. LIPP is an income-contingent loan repayment assistance program for graduates in public service or law-related private sector jobs – in other words, LIPP helps eligible graduates repay their loans. Unlike public interest scholarships, LIPP requires no “up front” commitment to public service work. Any Harvard Law School J.D. program graduate can qualify for LIPP assistance to repay eligible education loans."

Anyone know 1) how Harvard's program compares to similar ones, say, Yale's, and 2) how low of an income you need to qualify?

I believ the figure was 80,000 to qualify for LIPP

[1212]

Not a problem guys. When she was telling me this I was furiously taking notes so I could share exactly what she said. I probably looked like a complete nut case.

I was also surprised at the amount of insight she provided. I was really disappointed to be held but this definitely has put things in context and at the very least I won't spend my free time incessantly refreshing my gmail. Not that I really do that....*clears throat*

[Nelson]

Anyone know 1) how Harvard's program compares to similar ones, say, Yale's?

http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/coap.htm

Seems comparable. Both schools are extremely generous with income replacement. It's one of the major differentiators between HYS and CCN, along with A3 clerkship placement and academia placement.

[KaleidoscopeEyes]

Not a problem guys. When she was telling me this I was furiously taking notes so I could share exactly what she said. I probably looked like a complete nut case.

I was also surprised at the amount of insight she provided. I was really disappointed to be held but this definitely has put things in context and at the very least I won't spend my free time incessantly refreshing my gmail. Not that I really do that....*clears throat*

Thanks for doing that. Definitely helpful. It seems like there's not much you can do if you're held unless you're still in undergrad and your grades went up.

[sharktankdean]

thanks 1212

I'm still kinda confused about the rest of us (those who submitted after the held group). Looking at lsn they have rejected people up until the 11/05 submission date. I know that lsn is not representative, but if you submitted after 10/13 but before 11/05 and didn't get rejected, where do we stand? should we expect a new batch of holds or could we still be rejected? Harvard is really confusing this cycle.

[amc987]

thanks 1212

I'm still kinda confused about the rest of us (those who submitted after the held group). Looking at lsn they have rejected people up until the 11/05 submission date. I know that lsn is not representative, but if you submitted after 10/13 but before 11/05 and didn't get rejected, where do we stand? should we expect a new batch of holds or could we still be rejected? Harvard is really confusing this cycle.

+1. Story of my life.

[addy11]

thanks 1212

I'm still kinda confused about the rest of us (those who submitted after the held group). Looking at lsn they have rejected people up until the 11/05 submission date. I know that lsn is not representative, but if you submitted after 10/13 but before 11/05 and didn't get rejected, where do we stand? should we expect a new batch of holds or could we still be rejected? Harvard is really confusing this cycle.

I think there is some evidence (and far more hope) that the rejections are done for now. There's no way to tell, but last year there was a large culling before holds.

[seanPtheB]

1212, absolutely awesome job. Thanks a lot for that. The rep didn't happen to say anything about an updated resume did they? I secured a couple things for this semester that would definitely beef up my otherwise fairly weak resume.