Any Michigan State 2011 Applicants Forum

[Spack]

In today via email after being submitted for re-review in February. I submitted a Why MSU essay and a LOCI almost immediately after notification that I was being held.

Edit: Also, checked status checker and it notes I have been admitted with scholarship so for those of you off the deferral list there is still the chance to get scholly money.

[NotMyRealName09]

Nice to see so much interest in my alma mater! Graduated in 2010 and I have a job in a large Detroit area firm doing commercial litigation. And yes, MSU Law should be moving up in the rankings. As I've mentioned on this forum before, we have a highly well-regarded Law Review that ranks in the top 65 or so, way beyond our US News rank.

Those of you attending are going to love it!

What follows is the advice of an MSU Law alum who ranked first in my class first semester - probably the single most important semester of your life (I'm not joking). I began with no scholarships at all but took full advantage of the education offered and earned a full ride for the 2L and 3L years, even becoming a King Scholar due to my 1L grades. I know its long, but I wish I had read something like this before I began law school.

Study like you've never studied before. I don't care what your UGPA was, its meaningless once you sit down in your first class. You have to study to exhaustion, then nap and study more. If you have any "free time" you're doing it wrong. Yes, take breaks and go out on weekends, but during the week is school time. I didn't have the highest UGPA or LSAT, but I smoked them all gradeswise. The lesson is, you truly don't know who knows what they are doing, so ignore everyone's style and make your own.

DO NOT pay attention to what other people are doing to study - research what it takes to succeed and chart your own path. Why? Because until at least the first semester grades are in - YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHO IS ACTUALLY STUDYING PROPERLY.

The know-it-all you'll hear in the first week of your 1L Torts class doesn't know shit. He probably has an outline from a former student and is reading a case summary and the rule (DON'T DO THIS.)* Those are called "gunners," and you'll learn to hate them. Don't be one. Note, however, there is a difference between a "gunner" and a person of intelligence. You'll understand when you see it.

*(#1 MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF UNSOLICITED ADVICE I GIVE: You really, REALLY shouldn't use other people's outlines except to check your own outline WHEN DONE. You REALLY have to make your own outline, from scratch. Go ahead and read some, but DON'T use them as a constant reference, and NEVER copy and paste from one to "make" your own outline. The PROCESS of making the outline allows your brain to VISUALIZE how the various parts of the law fit together, and helps identify and correct misunderstandings. Learning the law is a process, and you must PRACTICE getting things wrong so you can learn how to get things right without needing help (hence, the gunner in class with the superb outline prepared by someone else isn't going to do as well as you). There is no substitute to drawing your own MAP of the subject matter. Who knows more? The mere map reader, or the cartographer? Yes, its a ton of work, far more than needed to just review former student's outlines. But I swear it will pay off, because 50% of your peers won't do it. Do you want a job that pays well? Then work harder than everyone.)

And not to scare you, but it is CRITICAL that you are at or near the top of your law school class if you want a high-paying job fresh out of law school. Critical.

Someone reading this is going to be shocked after having succeeded academically their whole life, only to get first semester grades back and realize that the 4.0 from UofM undergrad didn't mean jackshit.

Let top grades be your only goal in your top-law-schools.com. When your peers are being engulfed by the plethora of attractive partying undergrads at EL's supremely fun bar and house party scene, you should be reading cases and pulling out the "rules" that will eventually populate your outlines. From my perspective, undergrad was the time to drink and hookup with random chicks - I went to MSU so I definitely partook - but Law School is the time to lay the foundation for your lifelong career. I'm still amazed at how many people partied like they were in undergrad still. Oh well, thanks for making me #1 in the class first semester! (Ok, its ok to party now and then, but after Thanksgiving you should give up on social life until your last final is complete.)

IMPORTANT: Try to get on law review. Do the write-on. If you do not have the goal of getting on Law Review, you do not understand what is important about Law School. No single achievement in Law School is more significant on a resume. If I ever see legal resumes now, and I don't see Law Review, I know this person is not top-shelf. Thats just how it is.

Last tip - internship / externships with Federal Judges are fantastic. Don't be shy. Call their chambers after your first semester and inquire. Most are happy to have eager young interns. And after your 1L year, if you have the grades, DEFINITELY apply for one of Judge David McKeague of the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals externship positions. You have a federal appellate judge who usually takes 3-4 interns per semester. The experience - especially if you want to litigate - is incomparable, and any federal judge internship looks FANTASTIC on a resume.

This was my experience. Someone out there will tell you they succeeded using different methods, and thats entirely possible. Again, do what YOU decide is right. But don't assume you need to be in the library all day because that one dude is always there. That guy may very well suck at lawschool. Some of my best outlining was accomplished while watching hours of TIVO'd Judge Judy at home, so do what you need to do to stay sane when you're putting in the long hours.

I'm willing to answer questions or whatever, as I love MSU Law and where its gotten me in life. Just private message me. If you take MSU Law seriously, you can land a job practicing at a very high level right off the bat.

[sizzlechest]

Nice to see so much interest in my alma mater! Graduated in 2010 and I have a job in a large Detroit area firm doing commercial litigation. And yes, MSU Law should be moving up in the rankings. As I've mentioned on this forum before, we have a highly well-regarded Law Review that ranks in the top 65 or so, way beyond our US News rank.

Those of you attending are going to love it!

What follows is the advice of an MSU Law alum who ranked first in my class first semester - probably the single most important semester of your life (I'm not joking). I began with no scholarships at all but took full advantage of the education offered and earned a full ride for the 2L and 3L years, even becoming a King Scholar due to my 1L grades. I know its long, but I wish I had read something like this before I began law school.

Study like you've never studied before. I don't care what your UGPA was, its meaningless once you sit down in your first class. You have to study to exhaustion, then nap and study more. If you have any "free time" you're doing it wrong. Yes, take breaks and go out on weekends, but during the week is school time. I didn't have the highest UGPA or LSAT, but I smoked them all gradeswise. The lesson is, you truly don't know who knows what they are doing, so ignore everyone's style and make your own.

DO NOT pay attention to what other people are doing to study - research what it takes to succeed and chart your own path. Why? Because until at least the first semester grades are in - YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHO IS ACTUALLY STUDYING PROPERLY.

The know-it-all you'll hear in the first week of your 1L Torts class doesn't know shit. He probably has an outline from a former student and is reading a case summary and the rule (DON'T DO THIS.)* Those are called "gunners," and you'll learn to hate them. Don't be one. Note, however, there is a difference between a "gunner" and a person of intelligence. You'll understand when you see it.

*(#1 MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF UNSOLICITED ADVICE I GIVE: You really, REALLY shouldn't use other people's outlines except to check your own outline WHEN DONE. You REALLY have to make your own outline, from scratch. Go ahead and read some, but DON'T use them as a constant reference, and NEVER copy and paste from one to "make" your own outline. The PROCESS of making the outline allows your brain to VISUALIZE how the various parts of the law fit together, and helps identify and correct misunderstandings. Learning the law is a process, and you must PRACTICE getting things wrong so you can learn how to get things right without needing help (hence, the gunner in class with the superb outline prepared by someone else isn't going to do as well as you). There is no substitute to drawing your own MAP of the subject matter. Who knows more? The mere map reader, or the cartographer? Yes, its a ton of work, far more than needed to just review former student's outlines. But I swear it will pay off, because 50% of your peers won't do it. Do you want a job that pays well? Then work harder than everyone.)

And not to scare you, but it is CRITICAL that you are at or near the top of your law school class if you want a high-paying job fresh out of law school. Critical.

Someone reading this is going to be shocked after having succeeded academically their whole life, only to get first semester grades back and realize that the 4.0 from UofM undergrad didn't mean jackshit.

Let top grades be your only goal in your top-law-schools.com. When your peers are being engulfed by the plethora of attractive partying undergrads at EL's supremely fun bar and house party scene, you should be reading cases and pulling out the "rules" that will eventually populate your outlines. From my perspective, undergrad was the time to drink and hookup with random chicks - I went to MSU so I definitely partook - but Law School is the time to lay the foundation for your lifelong career. I'm still amazed at how many people partied like they were in undergrad still. Oh well, thanks for making me #1 in the class first semester! (Ok, its ok to party now and then, but after Thanksgiving you should give up on social life until your last final is complete.)

IMPORTANT: Try to get on law review. Do the write-on. If you do not have the goal of getting on Law Review, you do not understand what is important about Law School. No single achievement in Law School is more significant on a resume. If I ever see legal resumes now, and I don't see Law Review, I know this person is not top-shelf. Thats just how it is.

Last tip - internship / externships with Federal Judges are fantastic. Don't be shy. Call their chambers after your first semester and inquire. Most are happy to have eager young interns. And after your 1L year, if you have the grades, DEFINITELY apply for one of Judge David McKeague of the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals externship positions. You have a federal appellate judge who usually takes 3-4 interns per semester. The experience - especially if you want to litigate - is incomparable, and any federal judge internship looks FANTASTIC on a resume.

This was my experience. Someone out there will tell you they succeeded using different methods, and thats entirely possible. Again, do what YOU decide is right. But don't assume you need to be in the library all day because that one dude is always there. That guy may very well suck at lawschool. Some of my best outlining was accomplished while watching hours of TIVO'd Judge Judy at home, so do what you need to do to stay sane when you're putting in the long hours.

I'm willing to answer questions or whatever, as I love MSU Law and where its gotten me in life. Just private message me. If you take MSU Law seriously, you can land a job practicing at a very high level right off the bat.

One of the most useful posts I've read to-date...thanks for the insight.

[Justathought]

Just submitted my supplemental statement, as per their request. Hoping to hear back this week.

[hurricane10]

Anyone else going to ASD on March 3rd? MSU is pretty sweet and mailed me a schedule, campus map, and parking pass... pretty cool

[buchy2009]

Anyone else going to ASD on March 3rd? MSU is pretty sweet and mailed me a schedule, campus map, and parking pass... pretty cool

I'm going. Just got that stuff today too.

[uwgbluedevil]

Anyone else going to ASD on March 3rd? MSU is pretty sweet and mailed me a schedule, campus map, and parking pass... pretty cool

I'm going. Just got that stuff today too.

Same here. Going to the basketball game the night before.

[miazdc]

.

[buchy2009]

Anyone else going to ASD on March 3rd? MSU is pretty sweet and mailed me a schedule, campus map, and parking pass... pretty cool

I'm going. Just got that stuff today too.

Same here. Going to the basketball game the night before.

Who do they play?

[canam2011]

Iowa

[DocHawkeye]

Iowa

Are they even going to bother calling that a "game"?

[Iceman389]

Anyone know about approx. when I should hear back from admissions after sending in my why MSU statement?

[sabenser]

Anyone know about approx. when I should hear back from admissions after sending in my why MSU statement?

People have written about this earlier in the thread. I think I remember a couple weeks was what people said but not sure. MSU didn't make me write a statement.

[sabenser]

Did anyone get a call today from the professor who oversees King Scholars? I got one and thought it was odd that he would call out of the blue like that.

[mora6577]

Did anyone get a call today from the professor who oversees King Scholars? I got one and thought it was odd that he would call out of the blue like that.

I got a call, but was at work so I couldn't answer. He didn't leave a message, but when I looked up the number it was from Professor Kevin Saunders at MSU. Did he say anything important? I should probably give him a call back.

[Guthrie32]

Nice to see so much interest in my alma mater! Graduated in 2010 and I have a job in a large Detroit area firm doing commercial litigation. And yes, MSU Law should be moving up in the rankings. As I've mentioned on this forum before, we have a highly well-regarded Law Review that ranks in the top 65 or so, way beyond our US News rank.

Those of you attending are going to love it!

What follows is the advice of an MSU Law alum who ranked first in my class first semester - probably the single most important semester of your life (I'm not joking). I began with no scholarships at all but took full advantage of the education offered and earned a full ride for the 2L and 3L years, even becoming a King Scholar due to my 1L grades. I know its long, but I wish I had read something like this before I began law school.

Study like you've never studied before. I don't care what your UGPA was, its meaningless once you sit down in your first class. You have to study to exhaustion, then nap and study more. If you have any "free time" you're doing it wrong. Yes, take breaks and go out on weekends, but during the week is school time. I didn't have the highest UGPA or LSAT, but I smoked them all gradeswise. The lesson is, you truly don't know who knows what they are doing, so ignore everyone's style and make your own.

DO NOT pay attention to what other people are doing to study - research what it takes to succeed and chart your own path. Why? Because until at least the first semester grades are in - YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHO IS ACTUALLY STUDYING PROPERLY.

The know-it-all you'll hear in the first week of your 1L Torts class doesn't know shit. He probably has an outline from a former student and is reading a case summary and the rule (DON'T DO THIS.)* Those are called "gunners," and you'll learn to hate them. Don't be one. Note, however, there is a difference between a "gunner" and a person of intelligence. You'll understand when you see it.

*(#1 MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF UNSOLICITED ADVICE I GIVE: You really, REALLY shouldn't use other people's outlines except to check your own outline WHEN DONE. You REALLY have to make your own outline, from scratch. Go ahead and read some, but DON'T use them as a constant reference, and NEVER copy and paste from one to "make" your own outline. The PROCESS of making the outline allows your brain to VISUALIZE how the various parts of the law fit together, and helps identify and correct misunderstandings. Learning the law is a process, and you must PRACTICE getting things wrong so you can learn how to get things right without needing help (hence, the gunner in class with the superb outline prepared by someone else isn't going to do as well as you). There is no substitute to drawing your own MAP of the subject matter. Who knows more? The mere map reader, or the cartographer? Yes, its a ton of work, far more than needed to just review former student's outlines. But I swear it will pay off, because 50% of your peers won't do it. Do you want a job that pays well? Then work harder than everyone.)

And not to scare you, but it is CRITICAL that you are at or near the top of your law school class if you want a high-paying job fresh out of law school. Critical.

Someone reading this is going to be shocked after having succeeded academically their whole life, only to get first semester grades back and realize that the 4.0 from UofM undergrad didn't mean jackshit.

Let top grades be your only goal in your top-law-schools.com. When your peers are being engulfed by the plethora of attractive partying undergrads at EL's supremely fun bar and house party scene, you should be reading cases and pulling out the "rules" that will eventually populate your outlines. From my perspective, undergrad was the time to drink and hookup with random chicks - I went to MSU so I definitely partook - but Law School is the time to lay the foundation for your lifelong career. I'm still amazed at how many people partied like they were in undergrad still. Oh well, thanks for making me #1 in the class first semester! (Ok, its ok to party now and then, but after Thanksgiving you should give up on social life until your last final is complete.)

IMPORTANT: Try to get on law review. Do the write-on. If you do not have the goal of getting on Law Review, you do not understand what is important about Law School. No single achievement in Law School is more significant on a resume. If I ever see legal resumes now, and I don't see Law Review, I know this person is not top-shelf. Thats just how it is.

Last tip - internship / externships with Federal Judges are fantastic. Don't be shy. Call their chambers after your first semester and inquire. Most are happy to have eager young interns. And after your 1L year, if you have the grades, DEFINITELY apply for one of Judge David McKeague of the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals externship positions. You have a federal appellate judge who usually takes 3-4 interns per semester. The experience - especially if you want to litigate - is incomparable, and any federal judge internship looks FANTASTIC on a resume.

This was my experience. Someone out there will tell you they succeeded using different methods, and thats entirely possible. Again, do what YOU decide is right. But don't assume you need to be in the library all day because that one dude is always there. That guy may very well suck at lawschool. Some of my best outlining was accomplished while watching hours of TIVO'd Judge Judy at home, so do what you need to do to stay sane when you're putting in the long hours.

I'm willing to answer questions or whatever, as I love MSU Law and where its gotten me in life. Just private message me. If you take MSU Law seriously, you can land a job practicing at a very high level right off the bat.

This is a very useful post. I am a current 1L at MSU, and I have set up a thread to answer any questions that potential candidates or admits have. Check it out and do not hesitate to ask questions…I will try to answer anything you throw at me! http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=147775

[canam2011]

I have an extra ticket for the basketball game tomorrow if anyone is interested.

[hurricane10]

anyone else going to the reception dinner tomorrow/visit on Thursday? I wonder how many people are going to be at the event but it seems fun.. I'm looking forward to it.

[EmB501]

I submitted my additional essay approx. three weeks ago and got a phone call and acceptance email. Hope that helps!

[buchy2009]

So was anyone else at the ASD today? What did y'all think?

[gens1tb]

Congratulations to MSU for moving up to a T2 school.

[dcwumpus]

Congratulations to MSU for moving up to a T2 school.

+1,000,000

A well-deserved bump. MSU Law has been working really hard to keep improving an already impressive program. I predict many more gains in the future.

[Justathought]

Hey, just wanted to ask how long it took to receive the admissions packet. My status checker says admitted with scholarship, and I'm curious how much will be. Free or near free school is always something to consider.

[Iceman389]

I got the acceptance call on 3/7 saying the packet was on the way. Just checked my mailbox still not here yet

[EmB501]

Has anyone had any luck negotiating scholarships with msu?