Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle) Forum

[Fujin11]

Being President of the United States does not require a Law Degree, correct.

Fun Fact of the day: Technically neither does being a Supreme Court Justice.

[ajax]

I had a great time at ASD today, very impressed with the school and faculty I talked to. My mind would be made up if it hadn't been already.

Thoughts from anyone else?

Did they talk about what the 40% are doing or was that unpleasant information omitted?

I'm not top 10% and I have a paid summer job as a 1L. I worked hard to get it and it wasn't an EASY process. I put in a lot of leg work to hunt down a job. I plan on doing the same for 2L, and into 3L if I have to. MAYBE I won't end up with something, but I won't walk around denigrating my school for my own personal "failures." People need to take recognize what theyre getting into from the beginning, understand the potential prospects, then work their asses off. Not getting a job at OCI is not a death sentence, unless you let it be.

I have truly found Fordham to be very laid back and have an amazingly supportive community feeling. When I pulled my summer job I had another firm on the table. The second I accepted my position I worked to get someone else into the firm that I still knew was looking.

I hope you're kidding. Is it really a personal failure for someone graduating from Fordham to not find a job requiring a JD? If so, there are a lot of people that have a bone to pick with you, like 38% of the Fordham graduating class of 2011. How many people graduated in 2011? 430ish? 38% of 430 is roughly 160 Fordham law grads with no job requiring a JD! 15.4% of the class of 2011 (yes 15.4%!) were unemployed. That is higher than the 8.2 unemployment rate in the US. So 66 Fordham law grads have no job at all, never mind one requiring a JD, and likely an absurd pile of debt. Why don't you go up to each one of them and explain to them that it was their fault for not attaining a job. You'll likely get punched in the face by many of them.

How about this idea? Maybe don't have 45,000 newly minted law graduates every year for, what, 25,000 jobs?

But, yeah, it's certainly not Fordham's fault. They are just doing what other school's are doing. I used to use a similar excuse when I was a kid to my mom, "But mom, billy stole candy from the store so I did too." Except it's not candy, it's money. A lot of money. Over 200k in many cases.

[JenDarby]

I had a great time at ASD today, very impressed with the school and faculty I talked to. My mind would be made up if it hadn't been already.

Thoughts from anyone else?

Did they talk about what the 40% are doing or was that unpleasant information omitted?

I'm not top 10% and I have a paid summer job as a 1L. I worked hard to get it and it wasn't an EASY process. I put in a lot of leg work to hunt down a job. I plan on doing the same for 2L, and into 3L if I have to. MAYBE I won't end up with something, but I won't walk around denigrating my school for my own personal "failures." People need to take recognize what theyre getting into from the beginning, understand the potential prospects, then work their asses off. Not getting a job at OCI is not a death sentence, unless you let it be.

I have truly found Fordham to be very laid back and have an amazingly supportive community feeling. When I pulled my summer job I had another firm on the table. The second I accepted my position I worked to get someone else into the firm that I still knew was looking.

I hope you're kidding. Is it really a personal failure for someone graduating from Fordham to not find a job requiring a JD? If so, there are a lot of people that have a bone to pick with you, like 38% of the Fordham graduating class of 2011. How many people graduated in 2011? 430ish? 38% of 430 is roughly 160 Fordham law grads with no job requiring a JD! 15.4% of the class of 2011 (yes 15.4%!) were unemployed. That is higher than the 8.2 unemployment rate in the US. So 66 Fordham law grads have no job at all, never mind one requiring a JD, and likely an absurd pile of debt. Why don't you go up to each one of them and explain to them that it was their fault for not attaining a job. You'll likely get punched in the face by many of them.

How about this idea? Maybe don't have 45,000 newly minted law graduates every year for, what, 25,000 jobs?

But, yeah, it's certainly not Fordham's fault. They are just doing what other school's are doing. I used to use a similar excuse when I was a kid to my mom, "But mom, billy stole candy from the store so I did too." Except it's not candy, it's money. A lot of money. Over 200k in many cases.

Did I say ANYTHING about anyone else being a failure? Absolutely not. If I am entirely unemployed when I graduate Fordham, and have not figured out some life plan for myself, do I think it will be my fault over Fordham's? Absolutely. You really need to get off your 0L pedestal and realize you are not contributing to this thread in any way. Also, apparently you have no idea what it means when someone puts something in quotes as I did. "failures," as in its NOT a failure. Good lord.

[Stringer6]

I hope you're kidding. Is it really a personal failure for someone graduating from Fordham to not find a job requiring a JD? If so, there are a lot of people that have a bone to pick with you, like 38% of the Fordham graduating class of 2011. How many people graduated in 2011? 430ish? 38% of 430 is roughly 160 Fordham law grads with no job requiring a JD! 15.4% of the class of 2011 (yes 15.4%!) were unemployed. That is higher than the 8.2 unemployment rate in the US. So 66 Fordham law grads have no job at all, never mind one requiring a JD, and likely an absurd pile of debt. Why don't you go up to each one of them and explain to them that it was their fault for not attaining a job. You'll likely get punched in the face by many of them.

How about this idea? Maybe don't have 45,000 newly minted law graduates every year for, what, 25,000 jobs?

But, yeah, it's certainly not Fordham's fault. They are just doing what other school's are doing. I used to use a similar excuse when I was a kid to my mom, "But mom, billy stole candy from the store so I did too." Except it's not candy, it's money. A lot of money. Over 200k in many cases.

no law school forces anyone to apply or attend. if you go to any school and don't know the employment statistics and then end up without a job, that's your fault. and if you go to a school and do know the employment statistics and then end up without a job, it's STILL your fault.

[MrAnon]

I hope you're kidding. Is it really a personal failure for someone graduating from Fordham to not find a job requiring a JD? If so, there are a lot of people that have a bone to pick with you, like 38% of the Fordham graduating class of 2011. How many people graduated in 2011? 430ish? 38% of 430 is roughly 160 Fordham law grads with no job requiring a JD! 15.4% of the class of 2011 (yes 15.4%!) were unemployed. That is higher than the 8.2 unemployment rate in the US. So 66 Fordham law grads have no job at all, never mind one requiring a JD, and likely an absurd pile of debt. Why don't you go up to each one of them and explain to them that it was their fault for not attaining a job. You'll likely get punched in the face by many of them.

How about this idea? Maybe don't have 45,000 newly minted law graduates every year for, what, 25,000 jobs?

But, yeah, it's certainly not Fordham's fault. They are just doing what other school's are doing. I used to use a similar excuse when I was a kid to my mom, "But mom, billy stole candy from the store so I did too." Except it's not candy, it's money. A lot of money. Over 200k in many cases.

no law school forces anyone to apply or attend. if you go to any school and don't know the employment statistics and then end up without a job, that's your fault. and if you go to a school and do know the employment statistics and then end up without a job, it's STILL your fault.

The employment statistics have been pretty poorly understood until very recently. This 40% statistic came out last week. The law schools could have been more open about this kind of thing years ago but they chose not to. Why?

While it is plainly absurd for any student to enroll in a school when they don't know all the information, and virtually no student does know all the information about career stats, it does fall on the law schools to be completely open and not paint a rosy picture with limited data and statistics as schools have done for years.

[Stringer6]

I hope you're kidding. Is it really a personal failure for someone graduating from Fordham to not find a job requiring a JD? If so, there are a lot of people that have a bone to pick with you, like 38% of the Fordham graduating class of 2011. How many people graduated in 2011? 430ish? 38% of 430 is roughly 160 Fordham law grads with no job requiring a JD! 15.4% of the class of 2011 (yes 15.4%!) were unemployed. That is higher than the 8.2 unemployment rate in the US. So 66 Fordham law grads have no job at all, never mind one requiring a JD, and likely an absurd pile of debt. Why don't you go up to each one of them and explain to them that it was their fault for not attaining a job. You'll likely get punched in the face by many of them.

How about this idea? Maybe don't have 45,000 newly minted law graduates every year for, what, 25,000 jobs?

But, yeah, it's certainly not Fordham's fault. They are just doing what other school's are doing. I used to use a similar excuse when I was a kid to my mom, "But mom, billy stole candy from the store so I did too." Except it's not candy, it's money. A lot of money. Over 200k in many cases.

no law school forces anyone to apply or attend. if you go to any school and don't know the employment statistics and then end up without a job, that's your fault. and if you go to a school and do know the employment statistics and then end up without a job, it's STILL your fault.

The employment statistics have been pretty poorly understood until very recently. This 40% statistic came out last week. The law schools could have been more open about this kind of thing years ago but they chose not to. Why?

While it is plainly absurd for any student to enroll in a school when they don't know all the information, and virtually no student does, it does fall on the law schools to be completely open and not paint a rosy picture with limited data and statistics as all schools have done for years.

No. You didn't need that 40% statistic to know things were bad. I knew things were bad a year ago when I started at Fordham without that 40% statistic. Sure, law schools should be more open, but it falls on the STUDENT to investigate what he or she is getting into.

Are you gonna tell is if you went to Fordham? Are you unemployed?

[DTDT]

He's on the w/l hoping people drop.

[ned]

Maybe these guys need to do a little less yapping on discussion threads and a little more studying/career development. Such negativity is bound to be a huge burden to success in anything they attempt to achieve.

Before it's too late, reset your expectations and priorities. Focus less on status and money, more on appreciating what you have and using it to affect positive change, incremental as it may be.

The happiest people are those who learn to enjoy the struggle. Once you get old enough, you realize the truth in that communist pearl of wisdom: Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. Oh wait, my bad, that was the other Lennon.

[MrAnon]

Maybe these guys need to do a little less yapping on discussion threads and a little more studying/career development. Such negativity is bound to be a huge burden to success in anything they attempt to achieve.

Before it's too late, reset your expectations and priorities. Focus less on status and money, more on appreciating what you have and using it to affect positive change, incremental as it may be.

The happiest people are those who learn to enjoy the struggle. Once you get old enough, you realize the truth in that communist pearl of wisdom: Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. Oh wait, my bad, that was the other Lennon.

These are nice platitudes but the first one is wholly incorrect in my case. As for the second, focusing less on money would be easy for everyone, except that the schools do, you know, leave you with a ton of debt at exit. You kind of sound like a school counselor. "Do what fills your heart with joy / ignore that you are saddled with debt."

[JCFindley]

Chose not to be? You think the 40% made a choice? These guys actually told you they did not get their jobs at OCI or you are making an assumption off the type of job they have, just like you assume the 40 percenters dont join clubs, are not active around campus and are not looking for work? There is a larger element of randomness to it than you think. I knew successful professional night students who had already made it in the corporate world and could not for the life of them find a legal job. How does that fit into your assumptions about peoples abilities and want for work?

No assumption to the first part of it as they were asked that very question and responded that they did NOT get their jobs at OCI.

I did not state nor assume that the whole 40% did not network or try or even join the softball team but I did wonder how many of them didn't.

Look, you yourself have stated that you haven't made a friend in your three years there. I honestly would find that very hard to do no matter what the environment so it does make me wonder how many student groups you were involved with. Are there people that busted their buts and didn't get a job? I have no doubts it happens. It happens in EVERY field and not just law. I am sure not all of these 40% are not 250K in debt though I am sure there is a percentage that is and that is what make law school somewhat higher risk. There aren't many fields that you can start at 160K/year either so there is also a high reward factor in there.

I get that there is a percentage of people that just won't make it no matter how hard they try. I have been in a career field that had just as high of a risk/reward ratio. They were different than the risks and rewards involved with LS but they are just as high. It isn't for everyone and there is a truck driver school right down the street; Tuckmasters I think it is. Nothing wrong with being an OTR trucker, they make a good living but with every career field there are risks and rewards and there are pluses and minuses. It is a fact of life. In the big picture Fordham has a pretty darned good risk/reward ratio when compared to the vast majority of law schools out there.

[Stringer6]

Maybe these guys need to do a little less yapping on discussion threads and a little more studying/career development. Such negativity is bound to be a huge burden to success in anything they attempt to achieve.

Before it's too late, reset your expectations and priorities. Focus less on status and money, more on appreciating what you have and using it to affect positive change, incremental as it may be.

The happiest people are those who learn to enjoy the struggle. Once you get old enough, you realize the truth in that communist pearl of wisdom: Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. Oh wait, my bad, that was the other Lennon.

These are nice platitudes but the first one is wholly incorrect in my case. As for the second, focusing less on money would be easy for everyone, except that the schools do, you know, leave you with a ton of debt at exit. You kind of sound like a school counselor. "Do what fills your heart with joy / ignore that you are saddled with debt."

it's not fun if you don't respond to my posts/questions

[mcdeeremitch]

Taking a break from this wonderful discussion...I just got the email about the waitlist and not being able to offer any scholarships...anyone that has gotten this email in the past...is it a good sign ...or does everyone eventually get it??

[what_the_what]

Taking a break from this wonderful discussion...I just got the email about the waitlist and not being able to offer any scholarships...anyone that has gotten this email in the past...is it a good sign ...or does everyone eventually get it??

I got that e-mail last week, along with an updated date on my status checker.

I've been checking Espiritu's twitter all week to see if there'll be any movement this week. Seeing how it's 5:30 EST, my hopes are fast dwindling.

[MrAnon]

Maybe these guys need to do a little less yapping on discussion threads and a little more studying/career development. Such negativity is bound to be a huge burden to success in anything they attempt to achieve.

Before it's too late, reset your expectations and priorities. Focus less on status and money, more on appreciating what you have and using it to affect positive change, incremental as it may be.

The happiest people are those who learn to enjoy the struggle. Once you get old enough, you realize the truth in that communist pearl of wisdom: Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. Oh wait, my bad, that was the other Lennon.

These are nice platitudes but the first one is wholly incorrect in my case. As for the second, focusing less on money would be easy for everyone, except that the schools do, you know, leave you with a ton of debt at exit. You kind of sound like a school counselor. "Do what fills your heart with joy / ignore that you are saddled with debt."

it's not fun if you don't respond to my posts/questions

I just suggested I'm quite successful so I'm probably not an unemployed. You'll have to search the 107 pages of this thread for my student/alum status.

[Dislaw]

Taking a break from this wonderful discussion...I just got the email about the waitlist and not being able to offer any scholarships...anyone that has gotten this email in the past...is it a good sign ...or does everyone eventually get it??

I got this same e-mail today and I came to ask the same question.

[DTDT]

What I would suggest you do is write, call and visit. They want to know you want to attend it's that kind of environment that Fordham is building. The Asst Dean told us that. Good luck.

[JenDarby]

Taking a break from this wonderful discussion...I just got the email about the waitlist and not being able to offer any scholarships...anyone that has gotten this email in the past...is it a good sign ...or does everyone eventually get it??

I got this same e-mail today and I came to ask the same question.

If I remember right someone who received that email previously actually did express their interest to remain on the WL and was accepted with money in the end.

They probably just want to make sure you aren't ajax and get him out of this thread/their general vicinity.

Good luck!

[nygrrrl]

NYgrrl, were you on the panel?

I was not on the panel.
Have to find out who was - sounds good.

One of the students I came to the BBQ with got nada at OCI last year. Was he bitching about it, yesterday? Nope. He was giving honest answers about his experience and he's as positive as ever that he's going to find something.

I'm an evening student who works a FT freelance job. I knew I had to get legal experience as early as possible. I managed to find a PT legal internship last summer and a FT one (paid, flexible to allow for my pay the rent job!), this summer.

Law school is not fair. It's not even CLOSE to fair. Neither is life. It's how you deal with what you're dealt that matters, I think.
Mr. Anon I honestly feel terrible for you. It sounds like you've gone through a horrible time and you don't have a gig lined up and I feel for you. I don't know why you don't have a jerb (grades? poor interviewing skills? bad luck?) but if you want me to offer you help as I offered my Dewey pals, you got it. Hit me with a PM. Talk to me and I'll see if there's anything I can suggest.

I will start OCI/EIW in August. Just as I knew how bad the odds were when I started Law School, I know that the odds of getting a gig out of OCI are between 5 and 10% of those participating (actually getting a job out of the process.) I'm already working on Plan B. I'll keep you guys posted.

[JCFindley]

...

[JCFindley]

NYgrrl, were you on the panel?

I was not on the panel.
Have to find out who was - sounds good.

One of the students I came to the BBQ with got nada at OCI last year. Was he bitching about it, yesterday? Nope. He was giving honest answers about his experience and he's as positive as ever that he's going to find something.

I'm an evening student who works a FT freelance job. I knew I had to get legal experience as early as possible. I managed to find a PT legal internship last summer and a FT one (paid, flexible to allow for my pay the rent job!), this summer.

Law school is not fair. It's not even CLOSE to fair. Neither is life. It's how you deal with what you're dealt that matters, I think.
Mr. Anon I honestly feel terrible for you. It sounds like you've gone through a horrible time and you don't have a gig lined up and I feel for you. I don't know why you don't have a jerb (grades? poor interviewing skills? bad luck?) but if you want me to offer you help as I offered my Dewey pals, you got it. Hit me with a PM. Talk to me and I'll see if there's anything I can suggest.

I will start OCI/EIW in August. Just as I knew how bad the odds were when I started Law School, I know that the odds of getting a gig out of OCI are between 5 and 10% of those participating (actually getting a job out of the process.) I'm already working on Plan B. I'll keep you guys posted.

Good luck!

[nygrrrl]

Thanks, JC! It's such a crap shoot that I'm trying to take it all with a grain of salt: if something comes of it, that would be amazing. If nothing comes of it? It's another experience I've had and I'm glad for it.

(Yeah, yeah, let's see how I feel come November! LOL. But really, going in with zero expectations, gonna try to have some fun.)

[Fujin11]

Maybe these guys need to do a little less yapping on discussion threads and a little more studying/career development. Such negativity is bound to be a huge burden to success in anything they attempt to achieve.

Before it's too late, reset your expectations and priorities. Focus less on status and money, more on appreciating what you have and using it to affect positive change, incremental as it may be.

The happiest people are those who learn to enjoy the struggle. Once you get old enough, you realize the truth in that communist pearl of wisdom: Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. Oh wait, my bad, that was the other Lennon.

These are nice platitudes but the first one is wholly incorrect in my case. As for the second, focusing less on money would be easy for everyone, except that the schools do, you know, leave you with a ton of debt at exit. You kind of sound like a school counselor. "Do what fills your heart with joy / ignore that you are saddled with debt."

it's not fun if you don't respond to my posts/questions

I just suggested I'm quite successful so I'm probably not an unemployed. You'll have to search the 107 pages of this thread for my student/alum status.

Mr. Anon, as a current student (or alum) your opinion has real value as a dissent. In an effort to move this line of discussion in a productive direction, as opposed to the constant denigration perpetrated by people who chose not to attend, what is it that you dislike about the school aside from the whole question of job prospects?

[Stringer6]

Don't think he went to Fordham!

If I remember correctly, when I was applying and asking for advice, he told me not to go to law school and bragged about working on the "penthouse level" of a big law firm.

[tedalbany]

I will start OCI/EIW in August. Just as I knew how bad the odds were when I started Law School, I know that the odds of getting a gig out of OCI are between 5 and 10% of those participating (actually getting a job out of the process.) I'm already working on Plan B. I'll keep you guys posted.

Is this referring to just the evening division? Don't think this is accurate overall.

[nygrrrl]

I will start OCI/EIW in August. Just as I knew how bad the odds were when I started Law School, I know that the odds of getting a gig out of OCI are between 5 and 10% of those participating (actually getting a job out of the process.) I'm already working on Plan B. I'll keep you guys posted.

Is this referring to just the evening division? Don't think this is accurate overall.

You know, I thought those were the numbers for fall EIW/OCI overall, but I may be pulling something out of my butt. Let me double check and I'll post back.