Minnesota C/O 2018 Applicants Forum

midwestisbest · Post by **midwestisbest** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:23 am

Thank you for your insight! Much appreciated.

A.Taarabt7 · Post by **A.Taarabt7** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:08 pm

minnbills wrote:
A.Taarabt7 wrote:you'll most likely get a job and successfully enter the legal profession.

Wrong. Unless you count working for free or sub minimum wage. A friend of mine from the U with a 3.8 and patent bar eligible has received one job offer since graduating: to work for an outstate firm for 15k a year. Most of my other friends don't have anything lined up either.

ahh the good old anecdotal story. Okay so 1 person means Minnesota is a saturated, competitive market.

There is only 3 schools in that entire state compared to the 30+ schools in my state. Minnesota is not a doom and gloom market. Especially from the U. I think its doable to get a job but you still have to put in effort. Not sure why that person would go out of state since the Twin Cities legal market has a strong IP focus. I use to live in the Twin Cities, there are a lot of industrial/medical manufacturing companies. The area is #1 for medical manufacturing. Srs. So I don't know why your friend would head out of state to work for 15k a year.

Hardly anyone will have anything lined up before they graduate. Minnesota is a great school but not t 14. Same thing at UW, USC, and Emory. People usually find their job after they take the bar or pass the bar.

edit: And if it is for 15k It's probably a post bar clerkship. Friend is probably working full time or part time until they get their results back, then they will get hired on full time. Just a tryout. Pretty common for law firms to do that. Just navigate linkedin and utilize the "find alumni" feature of your law school. Then look up the classes of 2013 or 2012 and you'll see this similar pattern in their profile. Post bar clerk --> Associate attorney after they get their results back.

A.Taarabt7 · Post by **A.Taarabt7** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:09 pm

[quote="minnbills"

One thing I'll add, if you come to the U, gun hard for chicago/NY. I have seen people at median land biglaw out there.[/quote]

ok now we know this guy is clearly trolling.

minnbills · Post by **minnbills** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:20 pm

Whatever dude. I am a recent grad. Not trolling. There are a lot of misconceptions about the MN market and the U.

The U carries weight outside the twin cities. The whole regional thing is a TLS myth. I have seen people from median land biglaw in large markets. On the flipside, I know someone near the top of her class who landed multiple V10 offers in major markets, but could not get a job in MN.

MN is extremely competitive. The firms only hire 1-5 people SAs in a given year, and will only hire a few of those for postgrad (with the exception of the big 3, who may hire 10). There is also a huge influx of natives who went to T14s or other regional schools but who want to return here for postgrad work. Also, the QOL is so good that people love to lateral in.

You can believe me, or not. I am happy to take PMs too. I have a fed clerkship, by the way. I am not some jobless grad railing against the school.

Edit: "outstate" means outside the twin cities. He turned the job down because he can't pay his bills on that salary.

The Mixed Tape · Post by **The Mixed Tape** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:26 pm

A.Taarabt7 wrote:
minnbills wrote:
One thing I'll add, if you come to the U, gun hard for chicago/NY. I have seen people at median land biglaw out there.

ok now we know this guy is clearly trolling.

no he's not. He's actually doing everyone here a favor by posting abt the school

chingwoo · Post by **chingwoo** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:50 pm

MarkfromWI wrote:Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here. I'm currently a 2L at a different B1G school (think OSU, IU, UW, Iowa) but transferred out of one of the MN TTTs. I'm here solely to comment on the Twin Cities job market. I don't think it's quite as rosy as Count 1234 let it on to be. Being a diverse student with a 3.7x gpa is going to allow you to see the best side of any market. In general, aside from the Diversity in Practice program s/he mentioned, there are no 1L SA spots. I think each of the five or so biggest firms have 1. Not exactly a lot to go around, especially when you consider the Minnesotans who went T-14 and are trying to make it back home.

I will agree that the market is probably getting a little better, but there are still simply too many students in the area. If you're not in probably the top 15% or so at the U, you're going to be fighting with all of the other students from the other 3 (well, I guess now 2) schools for all of the non-Biglaw jobs. Yes, UMN is the Belle of the Ball in town, but that's only going to take you so far. I think a lot of employers would be just as happy - if not more so - taking someone who's top 20% at UST/WM than someone at median from the U. As for the HU and WM combining, it doesn't sound like they have any plan to reduce the total number of incoming students, at least not from what I've read. There will still be the same number of people entering the market competing for the limited number of jobs.

I'm not here to bash UMN; it's a good school, but that's not it's problem. The problem is that it has a very limited reach and feeds primarily into an oversaturated market. I just hope to give you folks some food for thought as you make a very important decision. If you don't get the right scholarship, definitely try and look elsewhere.

ETA: I just did a quick check of lawschooltransparency.com. I really wasn't kidding when I said that UMN has a very limited reach. It didn't send 5% of it's class (enough to show up on an LST state report - about 14 students for the class of 2014) to ANY of it's neighbor states. The only place it sent more than 5% (5.8%) was New York. Not WI, not IA, not ND,SD, or IL. Some of that is probably due to self-selection, but you can't tell me that the 31% unemployed all refused to leave MN. Again, not here to bash, just want you to be aware of what you're possibly getting into. If you're from out of the region thinking about going to UMN because it's ranked highly but trying to go back home after graduation, proceed with caution.

I know for a fact Dorsey has 4 1L SA spots and other biglaw(Lindquist/Oppenheimer/Maslon) type firms were hiring into March. Getting a 1L SA spot isn't as bad as its being portrayed.

Also the job situation isn't as bad as portrayed, I go to another T20 and I've talked to attorneys who lament the lack of people who reach out to them.

trueblue92 · Post by **trueblue92** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:11 pm

Anyone ready to apply this cycle?

James.K.Polk · Post by **James.K.Polk** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:04 pm

Post removed.

KMart · Post by **KMart** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:15 pm

trueblue92 wrote:Anyone ready to apply this cycle?

I believe you're looking for the c/o 2019 applicants.

trueblue92 · Post by **trueblue92** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:48 pm

I am but there is no such thread yet.

The Mixed Tape · Post by **The Mixed Tape** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:28 pm

If anyone has any general questions about umn law,

Feel free to pm me

I graduated from there last may with minnbills.

jettison63 · Post by **jettison63** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:08 am

Post removed.

trueblue92 · Post by **trueblue92** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:11 am

Any idea how much of a difference ED'ing makes? I am planning on it.

I really, really want UMN. Most of my family is there and I love the Twin Cities. I've already toured, chatted with directors of admissions both at recruiting events and at the tour and made my interest clear. My first LSAT was...very low. Retaking this Saturday and aiming for 162-164. GPA is 3.6. I know the numbers say if I can't reach a 164 I'm WL'ed but I'm willing to work my way off the waitlist. I graduated UG a year and a half ago and have been working as a paralegal in DC BigLaw since.

jettison63 · Post by **jettison63** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:13 am

Post removed.

trueblue92 · Post by **trueblue92** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:20 am

jettison63 wrote:
trueblue92 wrote:Any idea how much of a difference ED'ing makes? I am planning on it.

I really, really want UMN. Most of my family is there and I love the Twin Cities. I've already toured, chatted with directors of admissions both at recruiting events and at the tour and made my interest clear. My first LSAT was...very low. Retaking this Saturday and aiming for 162-164. GPA is 3.6. I know the numbers say if I can't reach a 164 I'm WL'ed but I'm willing to work my way off the waitlist. I graduated UG a year and a half ago and have been working as a paralegal in DC BigLaw since.

Good luck this weekend!! I love the Twin Cities, went to UG there

Thank you!! It's gorgeous in the summer. I went to school in Wisconsin so the winters don't bother me at all. It's just not the same out here in DC...

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:24 am

A.Taarabt7 wrote:
minnbills wrote:
A.Taarabt7 wrote:you'll most likely get a job and successfully enter the legal profession.

Wrong. Unless you count working for free or sub minimum wage. A friend of mine from the U with a 3.8 and patent bar eligible has received one job offer since graduating: to work for an outstate firm for 15k a year. Most of my other friends don't have anything lined up either.
ahh the good old anecdotal story. Okay so 1 person means Minnesota is a saturated, competitive market.

There is only 3 schools in that entire state compared to the 30+ schools in my state. Minnesota is not a doom and gloom market. Especially from the U. I think its doable to get a job but you still have to put in effort. Not sure why that person would go out of state since the Twin Cities legal market has a strong IP focus. I use to live in the Twin Cities, there are a lot of industrial/medical manufacturing companies. The area is #1 for medical manufacturing. Srs. So I don't know why your friend would head out of state to work for 15k a year.

Hardly anyone will have anything lined up before they graduate. Minnesota is a great school but not t 14. Same thing at UW, USC, and Emory. People usually find their job after they take the bar or pass the bar.

edit: And if it is for 15k It's probably a post bar clerkship. Friend is probably working full time or part time until they get their results back, then they will get hired on full time. Just a tryout. Pretty common for law firms to do that. Just navigate linkedin and utilize the "find alumni" feature of your law school. Then look up the classes of 2013 or 2012 and you'll see this similar pattern in their profile. Post bar clerk --> Associate attorney after they get their results back.

In a bit late, but I'd like to add that MN actually has a pretty good job market. William Mitchell, which is pretty much the bottom rung law school in MN, has an unemployment rate (for grads) of 8.7%, with 61.5% getting jobs that require bar passage. Now it's not as if that's what you want to hear about your law school, my point is that that is the bottom rung law school in Minnesota. Those are actually pretty good numbers for a school that isn't even close to being in the top 100 and which is the bottom rung in its state, and it largely has those numbers just because the MN market isn't so crammed. If you want to see a crammed legal market, look at the northeast.

From what I've read, the difference is that MN's legal market, like most of the midwest, doesn't have as much in the way of big law - those 160k starting jobs that so many would-be-lawyers are looking for. But that's just the midwest market - finding a job coming out of MN, IA, or WI law shouldn't be difficult.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... jobs/2014/
http://law-schools.startclass.com/d/d/Minnesota

minnbills · Post by **minnbills** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:36 pm

Ahhh if you think 60% of people getting "legal jobs" is a good outcome, you are crazy.

The Minneapolis market is horrific. More than half the people in my 40 person section don't have jobs yet.

Emilia_law · Post by **Emilia_law** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:25 am

minnbills wrote:Ahhh if you think 60% of people getting "legal jobs" is a good outcome, you are crazy.

The Minneapolis market is horrific. More than half the people in my 40 person section don't have jobs yet.

that's crazy to hear -- at same time i think the '6 month' test is a good one though. seems like from what i hear, a lot of people go on vacation for a bit/goof around after graduation before truly going on job hunt.

minnbills · Post by **minnbills** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:11 am

Emilia_law wrote:
minnbills wrote:Ahhh if you think 60% of people getting "legal jobs" is a good outcome, you are crazy.

The Minneapolis market is horrific. More than half the people in my 40 person section don't have jobs yet.
that's crazy to hear -- at same time i think the '6 month' test is a good one though. seems like from what i hear, a lot of people go on vacation for a bit/goof around after graduation before truly going on job hunt.

I can think of one person who did that. Everyone else is applying like crazy, and have been for years.

Emilia_law · Post by **Emilia_law** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:32 am

minnbills wrote:
Emilia_law wrote:
minnbills wrote:Ahhh if you think 60% of people getting "legal jobs" is a good outcome, you are crazy.

The Minneapolis market is horrific. More than half the people in my 40 person section don't have jobs yet.
that's crazy to hear -- at same time i think the '6 month' test is a good one though. seems like from what i hear, a lot of people go on vacation for a bit/goof around after graduation before truly going on job hunt.
I can think of one person who did that. Everyone else is applying like crazy, and have been for years.

yea, i guess the avg debt out of umn is probably about 110k. that's a lot of money.