Are some 0L ill-informed or I am just paranoid? Forum

[hdunlop]

Is boomer anyone over 30?

[toshiroh]

TLS is certainly not a prereq for doing well or being informed in Law School. The Law school world would do just fine, even if TLS vanished today.

[PattyCake]

Are you talking about OCI bids? Because that's entirely different. You were talking about 0L's not being aware of a particular resource before beginning law school, not currently enrolled law students being unaware of TLS. I would be surprised if many 2L's/3L's hadn't at least heard of TLS by the end of their 1st year. There must be at least a handful of entering 1L's at any given school who will name drop TLS loudly before the end of the first week, even at Cooley.

My view is colored by my experience at a T-20. I know at least 5 law students who had never heard of TLS before law school. And by the end of their first year, having learned of TLS, they still did not use TLS as a resource to prepare for bidding. How do I know? When I try to compare which firms they had bid on, I learned they had no strategy and did not research the topic on TLS.

I have no idea how many people use the site to plan strategy, but people were successful long, long before TLS existed. One of my siblings (aware of TLS during law school, but who hates this site and people who use/talk about it obsessively) got through UVA and landed Big Law in NY through OCI without ever looking at TLS. There are some "strategies" which are easily matched by good old-fashioned common sense - something even TLS'ers may lack. On the other hand, my siblings and I were born into a pre-computer dependency world, so we don't rely on the internet as much as the generation following ours does - maybe we're just reaching that annoying stage of old-ness where we start yelling at kids to get off our lawns and complaining about newfangled computers.

Holy shit you're a moron

Well since what I said came from actual experience rather than self-righteous arrogance, I think I'll stick with my assessment. And the example I gave was from less than 10 years ago, from a sibling who was not in the top 10% of her graduating class. She got and kept that job the year of the bloody biglaw slaughter, and while most of her classmates were losing jobs before they'd even started, she was making $145K and catching glimpses of lady liberty from her office. Maybe you should focus more on being a real person rather than killing yourself trying to get into a statistical safe zone.

PS biglaw sucks, know what you're getting into.

[PattyCake]

Also sounds like a boomer.

Not even close, child of a boomer. You missed a whoooooooole generation in there. I am still young, I'm just not a kid. (She said, pointedly).

[Mal Reynolds]

Also sounds like a boomer.

Not even close, child of a boomer. You missed a whoooooooole generation in there. I am still young, I'm just not a kid. (She said, pointedly).

You're just as bad.

[PattyCake]

Also sounds like a boomer.

Not even close, child of a boomer. You missed a whoooooooole generation in there. I am still young, I'm just not a kid. (She said, pointedly).

You're just as bad.

You just don't like people my age because we can't tell the difference between you and a 17 year old. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it if you keep eating your veggies and practice saying please and thank you.

[Mal Reynolds]

QED

[hdunlop]

Indeed.

[PattyCake]

QED

*"promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."*

[OhScalia]

TLS is certainly not a prereq for doing well or being informed in Law School. The Law school world would do just fine, even if TLS vanished today.

I agree TLS is not a prerequisite. But having a forum where you can get perspective from real students was so helpful to me. As I mentioned above, when Florida Coastal School of law was spamming me with emails to attend their school I would have attended but for TLS. I came here and searched FL Coastal and learned the real truth. Note in 2011, all I could see was the lies on FL coastal website about how the median income for their graduating class was over $100k when only 5 of their graduates respond to the survey. Here, TLS told me to RETAKE and ignore the emails.

[yeslekkkk]

There are so many ways to be informed. LSAC and all their reports is just one of them. I read several books about admissions. I talked to several people I knew who had attended or were currently attending everywhere from Stanford to McGeorge. Much of my awareness came from outside sources. I personally did not join TLS until I had submitted the majority of my applications.

[rpupkin]

Is boomer anyone over 30?

A boomer is anyone born between 1946 and 1964, but many TLS posters seem to use it as a general epithet to hurl at those who give overly-optimistic advice about the value of a law degree.

Somewhat ironically, the striver 20-somethings around here have a lot more in common with their boomer parents than they do with the older law students (most of whom are Gen X'ers).

[Pneumonia]

love the use of the plural "0L" in the thread title here.

[IAFG]

My view is colored by my experience at a T-20. I know at least 5 law students who had never heard of TLS before law school. And by the end of their first year, having learned of TLS, they still did not use TLS as a resource to prepare for bidding. How do I know? When I try to compare which firms they had bid on, I learned they had no strategy and did not research the topic on TLS.

I have no idea how many people use the site to plan strategy, but people were successful long, long before TLS existed. One of my siblings (aware of TLS during law school, but who hates this site and people who use/talk about it obsessively) got through UVA and landed Big Law in NY through OCI without ever looking at TLS. There are some "strategies" which are easily matched by good old-fashioned common sense - something even TLS'ers may lack. On the other hand, my siblings and I were born into a pre-computer dependency world, so we don't rely on the internet as much as the generation following ours does - maybe we're just reaching that annoying stage of old-ness where we start yelling at kids to get off our lawns and complaining about newfangled computers.

Holy shit you're a moron

Well since what I said came from actual experience rather than self-righteous arrogance, I think I'll stick with my assessment. And the example I gave was from less than 10 years ago, from a sibling who was not in the top 10% of her graduating class. She got and kept that job the year of the bloody biglaw slaughter, and while most of her classmates were losing jobs before they'd even started, she was making $145K and catching glimpses of lady liberty from her office. Maybe you should focus more on being a real person rather than killing yourself trying to get into a statistical safe zone.

PS biglaw sucks, know what you're getting into.

Obviously you can be successful at getting biglaw from a t10 school without TLS. That's the dumbest counter-example I've ever heard. Obviously before TLS top law school grads were getting hired by large law firms. The question is, can TLS help someone get the biglaw job they wouldn't have without TLS's resources?

And that comes from my "actual experience" of actually personally being a law school grad at a large firm.

[PattyCake]

I have no idea how many people use the site to plan strategy, but people were successful long, long before TLS existed. One of my siblings (aware of TLS during law school, but who hates this site and people who use/talk about it obsessively) got through UVA and landed Big Law in NY through OCI without ever looking at TLS. There are some "strategies" which are easily matched by good old-fashioned common sense - something even TLS'ers may lack. On the other hand, my siblings and I were born into a pre-computer dependency world, so we don't rely on the internet as much as the generation following ours does - maybe we're just reaching that annoying stage of old-ness where we start yelling at kids to get off our lawns and complaining about newfangled computers.

Holy shit you're a moron

Well since what I said came from actual experience rather than self-righteous arrogance, I think I'll stick with my assessment. And the example I gave was from less than 10 years ago, from a sibling who was not in the top 10% of her graduating class. She got and kept that job the year of the bloody biglaw slaughter, and while most of her classmates were losing jobs before they'd even started, she was making $145K and catching glimpses of lady liberty from her office. Maybe you should focus more on being a real person rather than killing yourself trying to get into a statistical safe zone.

PS biglaw sucks, know what you're getting into.

Obviously you can be successful at getting biglaw from a t10 school without TLS. That's the dumbest counter-example I've ever heard. Obviously before TLS top law school grads were getting hired by large law firms. The question is, can TLS help someone get the biglaw job they wouldn't have without TLS's resources?

And that comes from my "actual experience" of actually personally being a law school grad at a large firm.

Ok then I guess you have all the answers. Congrats on not being a fucking moron like me.

[bk1]

*Advocates learning from human beings and not to listen to information on the internet.*
*Seems not to understand who put all that information on the internet.*

[PattyCake]

*Advocates learning from human beings and not to listen to information on the internet.*
*Seems not to understand who put all that information on the internet.*

I don't take for granted that total strangers have any idea what they're talking about. And congrats to you as well. Amazing how many people aren't fucking morons like me.

[transferror]

Avatars speak volumes. Pattycake, it seems you have chosen well.

[IAFG]

*Advocates learning from human beings and not to listen to information on the internet.*
*Seems not to understand who put all that information on the internet.*

I don't take for granted that total strangers have any idea what they're talking about. And congrats to you as well. Amazing how many people aren't fucking morons like me.

Are you fishing for someone to disagree with me that you're a moron? You discounted the value of TLS because your sibling was in the majority of UVA grads to get a firm gig. And at 145k during the bust, sounds like it wasn't even a good gig, since NYC market went to 160 in 2007. I don't think anyone is going to take the bait.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[hdunlop]

Is boomer anyone over 30?

A boomer is anyone born between 1946 and 1964, but many TLS posters seem to use it as a general epithet to hurl at those who give overly-optimistic advice about the value of a law degree.

Somewhat ironically, the striver 20-somethings around here have a lot more in common with their boomer parents than they do with the older law students (most of whom are Gen X'ers).

Amen. Hope this is widely read. 30 year olds are technically millennials, by the way.

[Balthy]

*Advocates learning from human beings and not to listen to information on the internet.*
*Seems not to understand who put all that information on the internet.*

I don't take for granted that total strangers have any idea what they're talking about. And congrats to you as well. Amazing how many people aren't fucking morons like me.

Are you fishing for someone to disagree with me that you're a moron? You discounted the value of TLS because your sibling was in the majority of UVA grads to get a firm gig. And at 145k during the bust, sounds like it wasn't even a good gig, since NYC market went to 160 in 2007. I don't think anyone is going to take the bait.

It doesn't look like Patty was discounting the value of TLS at all. S/he was just trying to convince OP not to be an arrogant fuckface who judges ANYONE who doesn't know about TLS, so the obvious point and one counterexample make sense in context.

[JazzieShizzle]

Is boomer anyone over 30?

A boomer is anyone born between 1946 and 1964, but many TLS posters seem to use it as a general epithet to hurl at those who give overly-optimistic advice about the value of a law degree.

Somewhat ironically, the striver 20-somethings around here have a lot more in common with their boomer parents than they do with the older law students (most of whom are Gen X'ers).

Amen. Hope this is widely read. 30 year olds are technically millennials, by the way.

Found this on the internet:

http://www.socialmarketing.org/newslett ... ation3.htm

HTH

[PattyCake]

*Advocates learning from human beings and not to listen to information on the internet.*
*Seems not to understand who put all that information on the internet.*

I don't take for granted that total strangers have any idea what they're talking about. And congrats to you as well. Amazing how many people aren't fucking morons like me.

Are you fishing for someone to disagree with me that you're a moron? You discounted the value of TLS because your sibling was in the majority of UVA grads to get a firm gig. And at 145k during the bust, sounds like it wasn't even a good gig, since NYC market went to 160 in 2007. I don't think anyone is going to take the bait.

Didn't discount value of TLS, just the idea that it's the only source for valuable info. And your calendar is off by a couple of years. Yes, the NY market went to $160 in 2007. In 2008, the year I'm referring to, she was one of very, very few 1st year associates at her firm's NY office who didn't get a "thanks, but we won't be needing you" letter in August. Those who did start all had starting salary reductions and started at about $145 or $150, with the difference accounted for by some kind of "bonus potential plan." They took the reduced salaries with gratitude. I don't know the exact number because I wasn't interested in going to law school at the time. Nor do I much care now because I have zero interest in biglaw.

The point I made was about information, and using common sense to go about getting it. She'd have found that information even if she'd gone to a lower ranked school, because she went out of her way to go find it and made valuable connections along the way. She did that on her own time, and then used what she'd learned to make the most of OCI. Whether that info would have helped her less if she was coming from a less prestigious school is irrelevant - the question here was whether it is necessary to use TLS if you want all the information available to make the most of whatever situation you're in, whether it be UVA or W&L or Hofstra. Of course she got her job because she went to uva - why the hell else would anyone spend $150k to go there if they have better offers?

[Emma.]

First rule of TLS...