WUSTL 2011 Cycle Forum

[Magnolia]

I would second everything that Hannibal said. I came to ASW expecting to rule WUSTL out, and now I'm very torn, because I actually really liked it. The campus is gorgeous, and the law building has a ton of amenities. I definitely got the impression that the school is willing to spend whatever money it takes to make sure their students have the best opportunities. The professors all seemed approachable and friendly, and the students all really seemed to love the school.

I agree that the CSO was a bit optimistic about placement, but I do feel like they are extremely proactive in helping every student find a job. I also think that in a few years their efforts will pay off and the school will begin placing better. My only real concern is that the school isn't currently placing particularly well, relative to its ranking. I'm worried about being in an intermediate class, where we may or may not reap the benefits of those CSO efforts.

Coming from NYC, I was very concerned about the nightlife/general vibe of the city. It's certainly not Manhattan, but there are definitely a variety of options for restaurants and bars. It's not at all as mid-westy and backwards as I expected. It would be an adjustment for any big city kid, but it doesn't seem like an impossible transition by any means.

That's all I can think of now, but I'll post other thoughts as they occur to me. I'm also happy to answer any questions if people PM me.

[anti-phronimos]

(Reposted)

I am extremely high on WUSTL after the ASW. Coming from a public school, the campus is comparatively immaculate. Romo has posted about how he considers the WUSTL campus just as beautiful if not moreso than Michigan, and I definitely see where he's coming from.

St. Louis. I'm coming from California, and have lived in the Bay Area my whole life. I'll get more into the differences between the two for anyone that PMs me, but I must say I've loved St. Louis from the two days I've spent here. The bars that I went to are more interesting than the ones I know in the Bay Area and the place I currently live (if you've stalked me, you know where). It feels like the kind of place I'd like to live, or at least a good transition from living in the boring Bay Area suburbs my whole life to living in a big city. Central West End is a great neighborhood, and feels a bit like the nicer parts of Oakland (that's a good thing). The Loop is great too but not what I'm looking for at the moment. I'll definitely check it out later.

WUSTL the school: It's really impressive. They were definitely a little...optimistic about where they stand in regards to top schools in the country...

Coming from someone who was born and raised in St. Louis, lived in the bay area for a year and attended WashU, I find your post strange. Perhaps it's because I've spent 19ish years here and I feel the exact opposite [Bay Area>>>>>>>St. Louis, Michigan>wustl [beauty-wise]], but I guess that's expected since I've been here for too damn long.

And that last bit, when I took a tour and asked the guide how he felt about hiring prospects out of WUSTL, he [1] didn't answer the question and [2] told me that spring OCI for 1Ls is a great opportunity for finding summer internships. He made up for that BS answer by giving a short speech on why he would have a job [because he's gunning for St. Louis only] while his classmates 'might make it when they go back home.' His advice to us was--if you're coming here, plan on staying here.

[bk1]

Something like 1/3 of WUSTL's class of 2005 stayed in MO. I'd hazard that it is probably even less now (as WUSTL is increasingly attracting applicants from outside the midwest who want to return home after law school) and that they place around a half to two thirds of their class into the midwest. Honestly I wouldn't put too much stock in that 1L's opinion that St. Louis is all there is considering 1/3 or less of WUSTL's grads stay in MO and yet they are pretty much all employed.

I felt like WUSTL's CSO was pretty honest (well as honest about employment prospects as any other CSO). The only thing I felt wasn't on point was their focus that they are "national." While I do feel that it is possible for students to return to whence they came it still takes a lot of legwork.

Bay Area versus St. Louis is a personal preference. I can't see how anybody would think that it isn't and arguing about that is patently stupid. As for looks, I'll echo Hannibal's comments that it looks fucking fantastic compared to all the second tier UC's and is at least close to Michigan. I wouldn't say it's better than Michigan, but it is certainly much closer to Michigan in looks than to say Berkeley.

[anti-phronimos]

Bay Area versus St. Louis is a personal preference. I can't see how anybody would think that it isn't and arguing about that is patently stupid.

u mad bro?

I wasn't arguing, just making a point. I didn't say, "hey bro, Bay Area beats St. Louis without qualification." I said, "hey bro, I feel the opposite, but that's because I've lived here for a long time." I wasn't saying he's wrong.

I'd hazard that it is probably even less now (as WUSTL is increasingly attracting applicants from outside the midwest who want to return home after law school) and that they place around a half to two thirds of their class into the midwest. Honestly I wouldn't put too much stock in that 1L's opinion that St. Louis is all there is considering 1/3 or less of WUSTL's grads stay in MO and yet they are pretty much all employed.

Actually, he was a 2L, but I don't understand why you are disregarding my tour guide's suggestion, namely, that if you're coming to Wustl from somewhere else [which, as you said, is more and more of the class each year], then you should be okay with gunning for St. Louis or the immediate midwest, considering that's where most of Wustl students will find jobs. To give some context, he was responding to a question about geographic diversity, and noted that most of his classmates have no desire to stay in the midwest at all [return to california or east coast, chicago, whatever]. His little motto is really explained as this--wustl is strongest in the midwest--it's a regional school with lots of people from outside the region being drawn there; choose wisely if you're not sure about living in the midwest and don't expect your degree to be portable nationally.

[bk1]

It is a regional school to the midwest but your comment from the tour guide implied it was St. Louis or nothing. I agree that one should be okay with practicing in the midwest if one goes to WUSTL though there is a chance of getting a job elsewhere. I wouldn't say that one has to be okay with practicing in St. Louis if one goes to WUSTL.

[Hannibal]

that's where most of Wustl students will find jobs.

Nah. If you include IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD, IL, IN, MI, OH, WI all as the immediate midwest, then that still adds up to less than 50% of where the class places. And from the class of 2013 profile, I'd say probably about 40% come from the midwest. I'm not sure people have such little desire to stay in the Midwest, considering Chicago.

[FuManChusco]

I'm going to basically reiterate the sentiments I heard while I was there. if anything, I got the vibe from a few students that it was actually somewhat difficult to find legal employment in STL if you are not from the area. people don't seem to see St. Louis as a backup because firms are very skittish on people from outside of MO. imho, you're better off gunning for your preferred market and then scattering your resume in every big city, where connections aren't nearly as important. The school is beautiful and the facilities are fantastic. we don't need to argue about if it's better than Michigan. I have to say I was most impressed by CSO and at the same time I wanted to pull my hair out. they clearly are deeply concerned that all their students get jobs. talking to students, you can see some optimism that in the coming years more and more big firms and mid-sized firms will be brought in for OCI, and a few large firms have said they will return to '07 hiring numbers. at the same time, CSO was definitely trying to sell wustl as a national top tier school. in a sense it is, but employment data is very easy to look at an it will definitely take a lot of legwork to get out of the region. it's not to say it's impossible or even very difficult, but at the end of the day connections and grades are going to play the main factor. CSO isn't going to give you a job in LA, or NY, but I got the sense that they'll do everything possible to put you in that position. working summers in your preferred market is going to be vastly important for your future job.

at this point I'm pretty damn confident I will be at wustl in the fall. I'm coming from Boston, but as a super splitter this is quite possibly my best case scenario. am I worried about my future employment prospects on the east coast? of course. everyone in LS is worried about this though. with the cheap COL and the generous scholly $$ they give out, the situation isn't as doomed as TLS would make it seem. at the same time, I sure as hell wouldn't pay sticker if you are from another region and banking on biglaw to pay off debt.

[anti-phronimos]

Ah, that's not what I meant. I apologize if that's how it came across.

It's not St. Louis or nothing, but it should be alarming that many students go there with no interest in St. Louis or the midwest whatsoever [not including Chicago], i.e., you shouldn't go to a school where you wouldn't be reasonably happy at median, and median at wustl is probably limited to the midwest barring unusual circumstances, etc. etc.

Anyway, sorry for the thread derail. I'm also waiting for a decision from WUSTL [applied in October], so I'm a bit unhappy with them right now.

[JenDarby]

I am fairly confident I will end up at WUSTL. I'm glad to hear your trip went well Hanni, and that you're leaving with positive feelings about possibly attending.

[Hannibal]

I am fairly confident I will end up at WUSTL. I'm glad to hear your trip went well Hanni, and that you're leaving with positive feelings about possibly attending.

If you haven't visited, I highly recommend it. Even though the weather was terrible and I was limping from my back all weekend I still had a blast. St. Louis is such a well-balanced city, it's going to be hard for me to turn down going here even if I end up getting off the WL somewhere.

[JenDarby]

I am fairly confident I will end up at WUSTL. I'm glad to hear your trip went well Hanni, and that you're leaving with positive feelings about possibly attending.

If you haven't visited, I highly recommend it. Even though the weather was terrible and I was limping from my back all weekend I still had a blast. St. Louis is such a well-balanced city, it's going to be hard for me to turn down going here even if I end up getting off the WL somewhere.

Being from southern California, and still having enjoyed recently living in a small town in South Dakota, I've come to realize I am pretty geographically flexible. I don't think I can manage a visit, but I'm fairly certain I would enjoy St. Louis.

[romothesavior]

I agree with a lot of what has been said ITT re: employment and the CSO. Yes, our employment numbers lag our ranking, and everyone knows it. I am REALLY big on WUSTL (and everyone knows that too ), but I won't sugar coat it: things have been rough for the 2Ls and especially the 3Ls. But even in this incredibly tough economy, most students will end up with a decent legal job, even if it is not going to get them rich and even if it is not what they wanted originally. And I truly do believe that things are going to start getting better... Last fall's OCI seemed to be a bit better than the year before, and I have heard that my OCI will be decent (and I've heard that from reliable sources).

I told hannibal, bk, and magnolia during their visit that the CSO is what you make of it. They can't help you if you don't communicate and work with them. You want to utilize them as much as possible, and you want to make them think of you first when they hear of a job opening in your preferred market. Having a strong relationship with the CSO can really be helpful, especially if your grades are not fantastic. A lot of the complaints you hear about our CSO (and CSOs elsewhere) come from people who never meet with their CSO person, and they rely on things like 1L OCI to get them jobs. I really have no sympathy for someone who bitches about the CSO when they haven't taken any initiative of their own. The CSO people really do care about the students and they'll do whatever they can to put WUSTL students in a position to succeed.

Glad to hear everyone enjoyed their trips. It was a pleasure meeting some you guys and I had a lot of fun last night. I really hope you end up here, but ether way, good luck with your decisions. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

[stlisforlovers]

There was a ding post about WUSTL in the ding bar. Have they started sending out rejections yet? LSN doesn't have any yet.

[Justathought]

There was a ding post about WUSTL in the ding bar. Have they started sending out rejections yet? LSN doesn't have any yet.

I noticed that too. I guess at least 1 ding has made its way out. I wonder if said ding arrived via letter or email. Dinging people on a Saturday via email borders on sadistic!

Edit: The post does say letter, though it could very well be referring to an email. If they are sending rejection letters via mail, I expect some bad news from the post office early this week.

[fatduck]

Just wanted to echo props to romo, and his friend John Mackenroe, for their hospitality. CWE is the bomb. Sorry for bailing last night, but the whole weekend was awesome, even with the bullshit snow.

[bk1]

Just wanted to echo props to romo, and his friend John Mackenroe, for their hospitality. CWE is the bomb. Sorry for bailing last night, but the whole weekend was awesome, even with the bullshit snow.

Definitely echo the sentiments that romo was very helpful with everything about WUSTL and St. Louis itself. Somehow he also managed to be the most pumped about WUSTL while being the most realistic person about the school that I heard during my time at ASW.

I like the nickname you chose.

[romothesavior]

Glad to hear you guys enjoyed yourselves, and it was a pleasure hangin out. fatduck, sounds like your night was pretty fun after you guys took off.

And McEnroe is a real character, isn't he?

[boozehound]

There was a ding post about WUSTL in the ding bar. Have they started sending out rejections yet? LSN doesn't have any yet.

Sorry about that. I was just trying to get that DING BAR back on track...and my lame joke seems to have caused more confusion than amusement. I was not dinged by WUSTL (yet).

[Klogon]

Just wanted to echo props to romo, and his friend John Mackenroe, for their hospitality. CWE is the bomb. Sorry for bailing last night, but the whole weekend was awesome, even with the bullshit snow.

Absolutely. Romo and his friends were really awesome and helpful. Its nice to see somebody who really loves their school but is also very objectively honest about what they see and know. That is what really made making the trip worth it as I sit in my 14th hour of traveling stuck in an airport due to stupid delays.

That all said, I am not sure if WUSTL is any higher up on my list after all is said and done. It was always one of the leading choices, but I think certain things about St Louis still turned me off a bit more than I expected it to. Who knows, maybe it was the terrible weather. I guess I was expecting more of a walkable city/campus with less of a need for a car, but it looks more and more like I'd probably get one if I attended. I kind of wish I had more time to spend in the city and around the campus, but it really was not worth justifying $400+ for the difference in planetickets and hotel I would pay.

But I have to say the people and students were great and seemed to really enjoy themselves. Also, I think the CSO are great and will really start to help WUSTL justify its ranking in the employment rankings. I just wanted to echo Magnolia's concern that I would attend right before the fruits of their efforts were really felt for their students in terms of employment.

I am definitely going to do more research and maybe visit a few other schools even this late into the cycle. But WUSTL at this point is still a strong consider.

[flexityflex86]

How does Saint Louis compare to the rest of the midwest? Is it a bit warmer, because its relatively south? Is it safe? Are the women as attractive as they seem to be in Indiana, which I must say puts the coasts to shame in terms of %age of attractive women vs. women overall in the state.

I missed ASW because it took them 4 months to assess my application/pick it up. What's the take on its job prospects? I have about a 60% scholarship there versus a 96% scholarship to IU: B, however the cost of living is about 33% less in St. Louis so I am debating what to do, and can't get to STL before deadlines.

[Klogon]

Negotiate that scholarship.

[flexityflex86]

Negotiate that scholarship.

say they said no?

and is IU: B a peer school?

[Hannibal]

Negotiate that scholarship.

say they said no?

and is IU: B a peer school?

I think WUSTL is a step above in geographic power and quality of life, if not peers in amount of big/midlaw hiring.

[flexityflex86]

Negotiate that scholarship.

say they said no?

and is IU: B a peer school?

I think WUSTL is a step above in geographic power and quality of life, if not peers in amount of big/midlaw hiring.

look, if any of these schools can say if you work your butt off and place in the top quarter, we guarantee you 100k a year, I'd sign today. the thought of working 3 years, maybe getting married in law school, doing my part and then struggling keeps me up at night.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

Aw shucks still IR as of 3/15. Really wish I could've gone to ASD, but I was at BU anyway. Sounds awesome. All I've seen of STL is the airport (which is kind of meh). Not important, but first impressions you know!