Harvard 2010! Forum

[georgina]

I have a good family friend who is a partner at Cravath and was heavily involved in hiring new associates for a number of years and he told me that Cravath would much rather take a YLS grad than a HLS grad. In fact, he said they'd rather take a median YLS grad than a Top 10% HLS grad

man, so all you auto-admits are gonna turn down Y for H? gotta say, i was sorta counting on all the 3.9+/175+s to pick S and Y so a mere mortal like myself would have a shot at HLS

no but really

really. because i just want the best for you guys!!

[driveshaft]

if i got into yale, id still pick harvard every day of the week and twice on sunday.

For real.

Clearly this isn't the only thing that matters — and as someone else said earlier, when it comes down to HYS, it's really all about personal preference — but I have a good family friend who is a partner at Cravath and was heavily involved in hiring new associates for a number of years and he told me that Cravath would much rather take a YLS grad than a HLS grad. In fact, he said they'd rather take a median YLS grad than a Top 10% HLS grad, which surprised me. He did also say that they don't often get YLS (or SLS) grads because the kids that go to YLS (and SLS) aren't as focused on BigLaw as those at HLS and therefore self-select into the schools.

This is probably a numbers/percentages thing. I think there are probably just as many Harvard students interested in clerkships/academia or public interest/government as at Stanford and Yale, but because there are 2-3 times more students overall, the percentage is much smaller. There also must be plenty of jobs where being an HLS alum gives an advantage over YLS or SLS. None of which makes Harvard better, just different (as you mentioned, Yale and Stanford sometimes give a boost instead.) This is why I think there are multiple top schools. More than just one school will give you awesome options so you hear "T14 or bust" or "HYS or bust," but not often "Yale or bust." Nobody at the top is going to be totally boned. It comes down to different strokes for different folks. It might even be more than just self-selection. The schools might pick up on vibes about an applicant's fit, which is why you've been admitted to Stanford and I've been admitted to Harvard and not the other way around.

Edited for clarity.

[englawyer]

which jobs do you feel that an HLS grad gets the advantage? just curious!

from what i can tell:

YLS: academia, clerkships, elite biglaw
HLS: business, banking, consulting
SLS: tech, ip, entrepreneurship

of course I am a 0L so i have no clue what the hell im talking about

[driveshaft]

which jobs do you feel that an HLS grad gets the advantage? just curious!

from what i can tell:

YLS: academia, clerkships, elite biglaw
HLS: business, banking, consulting
SLS: tech, ip, entrepreneurship

of course I am a 0L so i have no clue what the hell im talking about

As a fellow 0L, these are pretty much exactly my impressions also. The only things I'd change are to add politics to an HLS advantage and a general blanket of "anything on the west coast" to Stanford (more because of connections, than a lack of prestige on H or Y's part).

[GeePee]

if i got into yale, id still pick harvard every day of the week and twice on sunday.

For real.

Clearly this isn't the only thing that matters — and as someone else said earlier, when it comes down to HYS, it's really all about personal preference — but I have a good family friend who is a partner at Cravath and was heavily involved in hiring new associates for a number of years and he told me that Cravath would much rather take a YLS grad than a HLS grad. In fact, he said they'd rather take a median YLS grad than a Top 10% HLS grad, which surprised me. He did also say that they don't often get YLS (or SLS) grads because the kids that go to YLS (and SLS) aren't as focused on BigLaw as those at HLS and therefore self-select into the schools.

This is probably a numbers/percentages thing. I think there are probably just as many Harvard students interested in clerkships/academia or public interest/government as at Stanford and Yale, but because there are 2-3 times more students overall, the percentage is much smaller. There also must be plenty of jobs where being an HLS alum gives an advantage over YLS or SLS. None of which makes Harvard better, just different (as you mentioned, Yale and Stanford sometimes give a boost instead.) This is why I think there are multiple top schools. More than just one school will give you awesome options so you hear "T14 or bust" or "HYS or bust," but not often "Yale or bust." Nobody at the top is going to be totally boned. It comes down to different strokes for different folks. It might even be more than just self-selection. The schools might pick up on vibes about an applicant's fit, which is why you've been admitted to Stanford and I've been admitted to Harvard and not the other way around.

Edited for clarity.

Right... because clearly percentage makeups change with respect to class size.

[driveshaft]

This is probably a numbers/percentages thing. I think there are probably just as many Harvard students interested in clerkships/academia or public interest/government as at Stanford and Yale, but because there are 2-3 times more students overall, the percentage is much smaller. There also must be plenty of jobs where being an HLS alum gives an advantage over YLS or SLS. None of which makes Harvard better, just different (as you mentioned, Yale and Stanford sometimes give a boost instead.) This is why I think there are multiple top schools. More than just one school will give you awesome options so you hear "T14 or bust" or "HYS or bust," but not often "Yale or bust." Nobody at the top is going to be totally boned. It comes down to different strokes for different folks. It might even be more than just self-selection. The schools might pick up on vibes about an applicant's fit, which is why you've been admitted to Stanford and I've been admitted to Harvard and not the other way around.

Edited for clarity.

Right... because clearly percentage makeups change with respect to class size.

Um ... yeah, they do if the same number of people are doing something in a different sized pool. Say 100/200 YLS students are interested in clerkships. That's 50% of a class. Now say 100/500 HLS students are interested in clerkships. That's 20% of a class. Still 100 students per class interested in clerkships.

I think there are probably just as many Harvard students interested in clerkships/academia or public interest/government as at Stanford and Yale, but because there are 2-3 times more students overall, the percentage is much smaller.

Edited because I messed up the quoting.

[englawyer]

for fun...who wants to do house of representatives...


US Senators

w/ Yale JD:
Michael Bennet (Colorado)
Arlen Specter (Penn)

w/ Harvard JD:
Mike Crapo (Idaho)
Paul Kirk (Mass)
Carl Levin (Mich)
Chuck Schumer (NY)
Jack Reed (RI)
Mark Warner (Virginia)
Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
Russ Feingold (Wisc)

[DoubleChecks]

if i got into yale, id still pick harvard every day of the week and twice on sunday.

For real.

Clearly this isn't the only thing that matters — and as someone else said earlier, when it comes down to HYS, it's really all about personal preference — but I have a good family friend who is a partner at Cravath and was heavily involved in hiring new associates for a number of years and he told me that Cravath would much rather take a YLS grad than a HLS grad. In fact, he said they'd rather take a median YLS grad than a Top 10% HLS grad, which surprised me. He did also say that they don't often get YLS (or SLS) grads because the kids that go to YLS (and SLS) aren't as focused on BigLaw as those at HLS and therefore self-select into the schools.

This is probably a numbers/percentages thing. I think there are probably just as many Harvard students interested in clerkships/academia or public interest/government as at Stanford and Yale, but because there are 2-3 times more students overall, the percentage is much smaller. There also must be plenty of jobs where being an HLS alum gives an advantage over YLS or SLS. None of which makes Harvard better, just different (as you mentioned, Yale and Stanford sometimes give a boost instead.) This is why I think there are multiple top schools. More than just one school will give you awesome options so you hear "T14 or bust" or "HYS or bust," but not often "Yale or bust." Nobody at the top is going to be totally boned. It comes down to different strokes for different folks. It might even be more than just self-selection. The schools might pick up on vibes about an applicant's fit, which is why you've been admitted to Stanford and I've been admitted to Harvard and not the other way around.

Edited for clarity.

@crackberry: oh yes i totally agree, i just meant PERSONALLY i'd take H over Y, for a lot of reasons -- it just fits me better. HYS are all great schools, and as i mentioned in the same post, it really comes down to personal preference and what you want, though i dont think anyone here would argue that a yale degree is very shiny in its own way (or WOULD ppl? lol)

@bolded comment: that is a hilarious line, i am stealing it because i can just imagine it being the right line for so many wrong moments

[GeePee]

This is probably a numbers/percentages thing. I think there are probably just as many Harvard students interested in clerkships/academia or public interest/government as at Stanford and Yale, but because there are 2-3 times more students overall, the percentage is much smaller. There also must be plenty of jobs where being an HLS alum gives an advantage over YLS or SLS. None of which makes Harvard better, just different (as you mentioned, Yale and Stanford sometimes give a boost instead.) This is why I think there are multiple top schools. More than just one school will give you awesome options so you hear "T14 or bust" or "HYS or bust," but not often "Yale or bust." Nobody at the top is going to be totally boned. It comes down to different strokes for different folks. It might even be more than just self-selection. The schools might pick up on vibes about an applicant's fit, which is why you've been admitted to Stanford and I've been admitted to Harvard and not the other way around.

Edited for clarity.

Right... because clearly percentage makeups change with respect to class size.

Um ... yeah, they do if the same number of people are doing something in a different sized pool. Say 100/200 YLS students are interested in clerkships. That's 50% of a class. Now say 100/500 HLS students are interested in clerkships. That's 20% of a class. Still 100 students per class interested in clerkships.

I think there are probably just as many Harvard students interested in clerkships/academia or public interest/government as at Stanford and Yale, but because there are 2-3 times more students overall, the percentage is much smaller.

That line of logic makes no sense in response to the original argument, then. If the self-selection element was not a factor, then the percentages would be equivalent, not the raw numbers. If 20% of one class has an interest and 50% of another has that same interest, then how is that not self-selection?

[puppleberry finn]

Getting into HYS would be amazing. There is no wrong decision between those three.

[GeePee]

Getting into HYS would be amazing. There is no wrong decision between those three.

TITCR. Seriously.

[crackberry]

Getting into HYS would be amazing. There is no wrong decision between those three.

TITCR. Seriously.

Yep, +1.

There could be a wrong choice for any one individual person, but I hardly think someone could objectively criticize you for picking H > Y / S > H / H > S or any other iteration of the three.

[capitalacq]

Getting into HYS would be amazing. There is no wrong decision between those three.

TITCR. Seriously.

Yep, +1.

There could be a wrong choice for any one individual person, but I hardly think someone could objectively criticize you for picking H > Y / S > H / H > S or any other iteration of the three.

yeah... I love how there's even a debate going on.

[Dignan]

US Senators

w/ Yale JD:
Michael Bennet (Colorado)
Arlen Specter (Penn)

You missed at least one: Joe Lieberman (Yale, '67)

[puppleberry finn]

yeah... I love how there's even a debate going on.

auto admits should be given their own thread to debate such things, like whether they will prefer yale or harvard or stanford, what beach they plan on summering in, which country that only rich people know about is best to visit over the holidays...

[driveshaft]

That line of logic makes no sense in response to the original argument, then. If the self-selection element was not a factor, then the percentages would be equivalent, not the raw numbers. If 20% of one class has an interest and 50% of another has that same interest, then how is that not self-selection?

Oh, oh, oh. I didn't understand that's what you were saying. I thought my response (100/200 v 100/500) was a little too obvious to be responsive to what you were saying. I never meant to say in the first place that there was NOT self-selection--I wasn't disagreeing with crackberry. I was just talking more generally about the differences and similarities in the student bodies and how there are (could be) an equal number of people interested in some fields. What I was trying to get across was that HLS isn't necessarily at a huge disadvantage in something like clerkships just because YLS and SLS aren't as focused on BigLaw. I can easily see how I didn't make myself clear about that.

On another note,

@bolded comment: that is a hilarious line, i am stealing it because i can just imagine it being the right line for so many wrong moments

Since I stole it myself, I see no problem with this. I just loving using turns of phrase like these as answers to questions when people are looking for something more specific. If we're in the same section next year and you hear "go big or go home" as an answer to a professor's question, you'll know it's me.

And finally,

for fun...who wants to do house of representatives...


US Senators

w/ Yale JD:
Michael Bennet (Colorado)
Arlen Specter (Penn)

w/ Harvard JD:
Mike Crapo (Idaho)
Paul Kirk (Mass)
Carl Levin (Mich)
Chuck Schumer (NY)
Jack Reed (RI)
Mark Warner (Virginia)
Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
Russ Feingold (Wisc)

I love this and it's definitely what I was talking about. Although HLS: Both Obamas. YLS: Both Clintons. Hard to say there's an advantage there one way or the other.

[02082010]

Stanford's place in HYS is akin to NYU's place in CCN.

+1.

[02082010]

yeah... I love how there's even a debate going on.

auto admits should be given their own thread to debate such things, like whether they will prefer yale or harvard or stanford, what beach they plan on summering in, which country that only rich people know about is best to visit over the holidays...

I went to a prestigious LAC for my first two yrs of UG and that is where I first at summer being used as a verb.

[driveshaft]

Getting into HYS would be amazing. There is no wrong decision between those three.

TITCR. Seriously.

Yep, +1.

There could be a wrong choice for any one individual person, but I hardly think someone could objectively criticize you for picking H > Y / S > H / H > S or any other iteration of the three.

yeah... I love how there's even a debate going on.

[strike]I don't think there is.[/strike] Nevermind, just saw hopefulundergrad's post.

which country that only rich people know about is best to visit over the holidays...

Clearly it's Svenborgia. Thank you 30 Rock.

[CoaltoNewCastle]

I'm checking in pretty late here. I've had a very bad semester and I only just applied to Harvard (and other schools) the other day. I have a 179 and LSAC 3.77 from a mediocre school. I normally post on the Something Awful law thread as MoFauxHawk. Here is my LSN: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/CoaltoNewCastle . I expect to hear from them in late January. Good luck, everybody.

[BaiAilian2013]

I'm checking in pretty late here. I've had a very bad semester and I only just applied to Harvard (and other schools) the other day. I have a 179 and LSAC 3.77 from a mediocre school. I normally post on the Something Awful law thread as MoFauxHawk. Here is my LSN: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/CoaltoNewCastle . I expect to hear from them in late January. Good luck, everybody.

Haha nice username. Welcome! Gargamel and I can always use another numbers sibling to share in our bemusement and misery. (Although obviously I wish you better luck, lol.)

[amidea]

I'm checking in pretty late here. I've had a very bad semester and I only just applied to Harvard (and other schools) the other day. I have a 179 and LSAC 3.77 from a mediocre school. I normally post on the Something Awful law thread as MoFauxHawk. Here is my LSN: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/CoaltoNewCastle . I expect to hear from them in late January. Good luck, everybody.

Haha nice username. Welcome! Gargamel and I can always use another numbers sibling to share in our bemusement and misery. (Although obviously I wish you better luck, lol.)

Yea, I imagine a 179 and 3.75+ GPA would make me quite miserable...

(Not trying to be bitter or anything, just struck me as humorous )

[BaiAilian2013]

I'm checking in pretty late here. I've had a very bad semester and I only just applied to Harvard (and other schools) the other day. I have a 179 and LSAC 3.77 from a mediocre school. I normally post on the Something Awful law thread as MoFauxHawk. Here is my LSN: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/CoaltoNewCastle . I expect to hear from them in late January. Good luck, everybody.

Haha nice username. Welcome! Gargamel and I can always use another numbers sibling to share in our bemusement and misery. (Although obviously I wish you better luck, lol.)

Yea, I imagine a 179 and 3.75+ GPA would make me quite miserable...

(Not trying to be bitter or anything, just struck me as humorous )

It's more the combination of 179(+), 3.75+, early JR1, and no JR2. I'm going to call it the USS: Wait, is my GPA really that low?

[Celibidache]

for fun...who wants to do house of representatives...


US Senators

w/ Yale JD:
Michael Bennet (Colorado)
Arlen Specter (Penn)
Joseph Lieberman (Conn)

w/ Harvard JD:
Mike Crapo (Idaho)
Paul Kirk (Mass)
Carl Levin (Mich)
Chuck Schumer (NY)
Jack Reed (RI)
Mark Warner (Virginia)
Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
Russ Feingold (Wisc)

My thoughts exactly.

[Richard Rorty]

Stanford's place in HYS is akin to NYU's place in CCN.

+1.

What do you mean by this?