Columbia c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013) Forum

[MCFC]

Has anyone here ever received an application fee waiver from Columbia? I got one last year and that is why I applied to Columbia even if I know that given my below 25% LSAT it is not possible to be admitted.

But it is still strange, why did Columbia send a fee waiver to someone whose LSAT is below 25% and still state in their email that the fee waiver is "on the basis of your performance on the LSAT only"? Do you have similar experiences? For those who have received the fee waiver, would you like to share your numbers?

I received a waiver this year. It was a little odd, I checked for a hidden one and didn't find one. So I emailed the next day asking for one, but they emailed back saying they didn't give them out in that way. Yet when I filled out the application the next day I had a hidden one.

To be honest though, I think the general CW is that fee waivers aren't indicative of much of anything acceptance wise.

[mez4083]

Has anyone here ever received an application fee waiver from Columbia? I got one last year and that is why I applied to Columbia even if I know that given my below 25% LSAT it is not possible to be admitted.

But it is still strange, why did Columbia send a fee waiver to someone whose LSAT is below 25% and still state in their email that the fee waiver is "on the basis of your performance on the LSAT only"? Do you have similar experiences? For those who have received the fee waiver, would you like to share your numbers?

They send it to tons of people so they can garner more rejections. I got one with a 168/4.0.

But it is weird that some of my friends who have a 169 do not get one..I am also 168. Maybe they just send the fee waiver randomly? What a mean strategy just to garner more rejections.

[mez4083]

Has anyone here ever received an application fee waiver from Columbia? I got one last year and that is why I applied to Columbia even if I know that given my below 25% LSAT it is not possible to be admitted.

But it is still strange, why did Columbia send a fee waiver to someone whose LSAT is below 25% and still state in their email that the fee waiver is "on the basis of your performance on the LSAT only"? Do you have similar experiences? For those who have received the fee waiver, would you like to share your numbers?

I received a waiver this year. It was a little odd, I checked for a hidden one and didn't find one. So I emailed the next day asking for one, but they emailed back saying they didn't give them out in that way. Yet when I filled out the application the next day I had a hidden one.

To be honest though, I think the general CW is that fee waivers aren't indicative of much of anything acceptance wise.

I understand, because Columbia explicitly states in the email that "this fee waiver does not mean a necessary favorable attitude when reviewing your application". Now it seems that it is just a common strategy used by the law school. I indeed feel a little upset now...

[TripTrip]

It is just a strategy. Don't read into fee waivers. The only thing they "mean" is that you won't have to pay the application fee.

[pacifica]

Called admissions office today. Told me if merit-based $ wasn't given at the time of admissions, there's no procedure for "reconsideration"...

Guess I'm withdrawing

also, I was told that the FAFSA and Need Access forms to apply to the financial aid that the non-half/full ride people would have to do is 100% based on need (no merit component), so that doesn't sound particular promising...

[elterrible78]

Called admissions office today. Told me if merit-based $ wasn't given at the time of admissions, there's no procedure for "reconsideration"...

Guess I'm withdrawing

Was this in specific reference to a Hamilton or a Butler, or is it just "If you got passed over, you're looking at need-based grants and loans?" Or could you tell?

[pacifica]

Called admissions office today. Told me if merit-based $ wasn't given at the time of admissions, there's no procedure for "reconsideration"...

Guess I'm withdrawing

Was this in specific reference to a Hamilton or a Butler, or is it just "If you got passed over, you're looking at need-based grants and loans?" Or could you tell?

No specific reference to Hamilton or Butler. Just straight up if you got passed over, you're looking at need-based.

[elterrible78]

Called admissions office today. Told me if merit-based $ wasn't given at the time of admissions, there's no procedure for "reconsideration"...

Guess I'm withdrawing

Was this in specific reference to a Hamilton or a Butler, or is it just "If you got passed over, you're looking at need-based grants and loans?" Or could you tell?

No specific reference to Hamilton or Butler. Just straight up if you got passed over, you're looking at need-based.

I guess I'll hold on and see how needy they think I am, but given my circumstances, Columbia at sticker (or anything close) doesn't enter into my calculus.

[bluecouch]

Called admissions office today. Told me if merit-based $ wasn't given at the time of admissions, there's no procedure for "reconsideration"...

Guess I'm withdrawing

Was this in specific reference to a Hamilton or a Butler, or is it just "If you got passed over, you're looking at need-based grants and loans?" Or could you tell?

No specific reference to Hamilton or Butler. Just straight up if you got passed over, you're looking at need-based.

pacifica, I am really surprised that they aren't offering you any merit aid... also a little surprised at their inflexibility about merit aid when they know that, in a lot of cases, they are competing for folks who were also admitted by HYS.

[twinkletoes16]

Called admissions office today. Told me if merit-based $ wasn't given at the time of admissions, there's no procedure for "reconsideration"...

Guess I'm withdrawing

Was this in specific reference to a Hamilton or a Butler, or is it just "If you got passed over, you're looking at need-based grants and loans?" Or could you tell?

No specific reference to Hamilton or Butler. Just straight up if you got passed over, you're looking at need-based.

Yeah, this seems really dumb on their part. Not impressed with how they communicated that to you either. I'm sure they know they are in a ridiculously high CoL area to boot, too

[pacifica]

Yea, it's weird that they're in this awkward spot between HYS (generous need-based aid) and MVP (generous merit-based aid). I guess they're deciding to make it rain on the high rollers and then go stingy on everyone else as their middle ground.

Also, this may be just me speaking out of sour grapes, but I did not like my interactions with their admissions office at all. I sent an email to the admitted student email address a week ago, got no word. Today, when I called to ask to speak to the contact number they had listed in the admitted student handbook (Jeb), the admin had to check my LSAC # and told me "he may be available." I can only assume he's immediately available only to talk to the Hamiltons of the world... After I hear about the "no reconsideration for merit aid" policy from the admin, I send in my withdrawal email, and then half an hour later, Jeb responds with a form letter response about "need-based finaid & how many students face similar difficult decisions" to the email I sent last week, totally disregarding my withdrawal email. He even ended with "hope to see you at the admitted student weekend!"

Anyways, that's my rant. I apologize. I know I'm being a total bitch about this because many people would LOVE for a chance to go to CLS, but I had much friendlier and personalize chats with admissions officers/deans from peer (and better) schools... just thought I'd share my experience.

And just for people in the same boat as me, here's the relevant paragraph from Jeb's email:

"Unfortunately, it will not be possible to consider you for a merit-based scholarship at this time, as our merit scholarship determinations are made concurrently with the offer of admission and cannot be awarded retroactively. However, other financial assistance comes through our need-based program. Please make sure you carefully review, complete, and submit all of your financial aid forms by the deadlines set forth in the Admitted Student Handbook/Website even if you do not think you will be eligible for need-based assistance. We are happy to consider any relevant information as we formulate a financial aid package for you, including any scholarship offers you may have received from other institutions. You can send any supplemental information you'd like to share, as well as .pdf copies of the referenced scholarship award letters, to me or directly to the Financial Aid Office so that they are included in your financial aid file for consideration."

Those two underlined blocks seem somewhat contradictory, no? Unless the second block refers to need-based finaid from other schools I suppose.

[pedestrian]

Yea, it's weird that they're in this awkward spot between HYS (generous need-based aid) and MVP (generous merit-based aid). I guess they're deciding to make it rain on the high rollers and then go stingy on everyone else as their middle ground.

Also, this may be just me speaking out of sour grapes, but I did not like my interactions with their admissions office at all. I sent an email to the admitted student email address a week ago, got no word. Today, when I called to ask to speak to the contact number they had listed in the admitted student handbook (Jeb), the admin had to check my LSAC # and told me "he may be available." I can only assume he's immediately available only to talk to the Hamiltons of the world... After I hear about the "no reconsideration for merit aid" policy from the admin, I send in my withdrawal email, and then half an hour later, Jeb responds with a form letter response about "need-based finaid & how many students face similar difficult decisions" to the email I sent last week, totally disregarding my withdrawal email. He even ended with "hope to see you at the admitted student weekend!"

Anyways, that's my rant. I apologize. I know I'm being a total bitch about this because many people would LOVE for a chance to go to CLS, but I had much friendlier and personalize chats with admissions officers/deans from peer (and better) schools... just thought I'd share my experience.

And just for people in the same boat as me, here's the relevant paragraph from Jeb's email:

"Unfortunately, it will not be possible to consider you for a merit-based scholarship at this time, as our merit scholarship determinations are made concurrently with the offer of admission and cannot be awarded retroactively. However, other financial assistance comes through our need-based program. Please make sure you carefully review, complete, and submit all of your financial aid forms by the deadlines set forth in the Admitted Student Handbook/Website even if you do not think you will be eligible for need-based assistance. We are happy to consider any relevant information as we formulate a financial aid package for you, including any scholarship offers you may have received from other institutions. You can send any supplemental information you'd like to share, as well as .pdf copies of the referenced scholarship award letters, to me or directly to the Financial Aid Office so that they are included in your financial aid file for consideration."

Those two underlined blocks seem somewhat contradictory, no? Unless the second block refers to need-based finaid from other schools I suppose.

I guess that if HYS or peer schools offer financial aid, you "need" more money to go to CLS?

[twinkletoes16]

Yea, it's weird that they're in this awkward spot between HYS (generous need-based aid) and MVP (generous merit-based aid). I guess they're deciding to make it rain on the high rollers and then go stingy on everyone else as their middle ground.

Also, this may be just me speaking out of sour grapes, but I did not like my interactions with their admissions office at all. I sent an email to the admitted student email address a week ago, got no word. Today, when I called to ask to speak to the contact number they had listed in the admitted student handbook (Jeb), the admin had to check my LSAC # and told me "he may be available." I can only assume he's immediately available only to talk to the Hamiltons of the world... After I hear about the "no reconsideration for merit aid" policy from the admin, I send in my withdrawal email, and then half an hour later, Jeb responds with a form letter response about "need-based finaid & how many students face similar difficult decisions" to the email I sent last week, totally disregarding my withdrawal email. He even ended with "hope to see you at the admitted student weekend!"

Anyways, that's my rant. I apologize. I know I'm being a total bitch about this because many people would LOVE for a chance to go to CLS, but I had much friendlier and personalize chats with admissions officers/deans from peer (and better) schools... just thought I'd share my experience.

And just for people in the same boat as me, here's the relevant paragraph from Jeb's email:

"Unfortunately, it will not be possible to consider you for a merit-based scholarship at this time, as our merit scholarship determinations are made concurrently with the offer of admission and cannot be awarded retroactively. However, other financial assistance comes through our need-based program. Please make sure you carefully review, complete, and submit all of your financial aid forms by the deadlines set forth in the Admitted Student Handbook/Website even if you do not think you will be eligible for need-based assistance. We are happy to consider any relevant information as we formulate a financial aid package for you, including any scholarship offers you may have received from other institutions. You can send any supplemental information you'd like to share, as well as .pdf copies of the referenced scholarship award letters, to me or directly to the Financial Aid Office so that they are included in your financial aid file for consideration."

Those two underlined blocks seem somewhat contradictory, no? Unless the second block refers to need-based finaid from other schools I suppose.

What I struggle to wrap my head around (and I am SEVERELY math-challenged, so explain to me like I'm 5, please), but shouldn't need-based aid, for the most part, be pretty much the same? Is there anyone out there that would be getting only 5k need-based aid from one school and then 35k need-based aid from another? I'm needy. I get that tuition rates are different/CoL is different, but assuming no merit aid is given from schools, need would be the same...right?


Sorry guys. Humor me.

[ph5354a]

What I struggle to wrap my head around (and I am SEVERELY math-challenged, so explain to me like I'm 5, please), but shouldn't need-based aid, for the most part, be pretty much the same? Is there anyone out there that would be getting only 5k need-based aid from one school and then 35k need-based aid from another? I'm needy. I get that tuition rates are different/CoL is different, but assuming no merit aid is given from schools, need would be the same...right?


Sorry guys. Humor me.

I see what you mean, but I also think that need is subjective (school funded aid, not federal aid) for different schools based on how badly they want you, as awful as that sounds. For example, if they have to choose between two candidates, one of whom they desperately want and one of whom barely got in, they're probably going to give the "need aid" to the former, even if the second one is slightly needier. Maybe I'm being too skeptical. Obviously, I'm assuming you have to demonstrate some financial need to get these awards, but beyond that, I do think it has a lot to do with your numbers and your relative competitiveness within that school. That's why Columbia would be interested to see what kind of "need aid" their accepted students get from other schools. I think merit vs need is a lot more about semantics then we think. Again, just for school aid, I'm not talking about federal loans/grants.

[smaug_]

I've been trying to avoid dropping in this thread, but some thoughts:

(1) If you miss the Hammy/Butler boat, it's gone, I think.
(2) Fair or not, CLS tends to describe most (all?) aid beyond those specific named scholarships as need-based.
(3) Despite this fact, most people ultimately receive financial aid numbers that track their numbers. I think for most folks there was a bit of a NYU -$ or Chicago -$ (or even more UVA -$$) math going on, but CLS knows that it can fill its class by offering less generous grants in some cases.
(4) Unless you were expecting a Hammy or a Butler (and I'd assume that some folks here rightly had that expectation, but I'd guess that many more didn't) you still have a shot at decent aid packages. It probably won't climb toward the 100k figures that UVA will throw around, but it might edge toward a half scholarship. CLS might be more generous than NYU or Chicago. I don't know why, but it isn't unusual for a candidate to get money at one of the three but not the other two. I think this is because there is a real need based component at CLS, but TLS has never really agreed with me on that.

In short, y'all need to chill for a bit. You're slowly moving toward the end of the cycle. You don't need to make a decision until you reach the deposit stage. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with admissions, pacifica. When I went through my cycle I had interactions with schools that were utterly off-putting (lol Chicago) and I had interactions that surprised me (like Columbia). Y'all just need to take things slowly, piece together your impressions of the schools as best as you can, and make a decision once all of the cards are on the table. Maybe I'll see some of y'all next year.

[az21833]

Called admissions office today. Told me if merit-based $ wasn't given at the time of admissions, there's no procedure for "reconsideration"...

Guess I'm withdrawing

also, I was told that the FAFSA and Need Access forms to apply to the financial aid that the non-half/full ride people would have to do is 100% based on need (no merit component), so that doesn't sound particular promising...

wait what? youre saying if you dont get hamilton or butler, you are getting $0 merit aid? this cannot be right. LSN has tons of people getting 20-50K....

i find it hard to believe they expect all non hamilton/butlers to pay sticker. if so they are going to lose a LOT of candidates this year to hls, chicago and nyu.

[Big Dog]

Yea, it's weird that they're in this awkward spot between HYS (generous need-based aid) and MVP (generous merit-based aid). I guess they're deciding to make it rain on the high rollers and then go stingy on everyone else as their middle ground.

Not weird at all. It's the beauty of being based on NYC (and being a top-ranked LS). There are literally hundreds of folks willing to pay sticker to attend. CLS can pick and choose. And I would submit they really don't compete that much with Y or S -- just H. (Too many easterners who would rather choose CLS than trek to the west coast, and Y is well, Y, and CLS offers those students merit aid.)

Fordham is also stingy with $$, and picks and choses as well, but a a lower level than CLS.

NYU does the same for undergrad, only in this case, it is thousands of students willing to pay sticker to be in Manhattan.

I see what you mean, but I also think that need is subjective (school funded aid, not federal aid) for different schools based on how badly they want you, as awful as that sounds.

While competition for students is indeed a fact of life, need is really in the definition, and in particular, how the schools interprets Need Access. For example, HYS may ignore or cap parental assets in their calculation of your need, while CCN may use all parental assets in calculation of "need." (By definition, nearly all 1L's have zero income and thus, all have equal personal "need".)

[smaug_]

i find it hard to believe they expect all non hamilton/butlers to pay sticker. if so they are going to lose a LOT of candidates this year to hls, chicago and nyu.

Read my post above. They give aid to folks who don't get Hamilton or Butlers. The echo chamber in this thread is so loud that y'all aren't listening to common sense. Anyone who has a scholarship listed that isn't a Hamilton or a Butler received some form of aid. I myself received aid and did not receive a Hamilton or a Butler. Worry about money after they make an offer or when you have a deposit deadline approaching.

[curious66]

I see what you mean, but I also think that need is subjective (school funded aid, not federal aid) for different schools based on how badly they want you, as awful as that sounds.

While competition for students is indeed a fact of life, need is really in the definition, and in particular, how the schools interprets Need Access. For example, HYS may ignore or cap parental assets in their calculation of your need, while CCN may use all parental assets in calculation of "need." (By definition, nearly all 1L's have zero income and thus, all have equal personal "need".)[/quote]

Columbia specifically states that it takes Parental assets and contributions into consideration. No doubt it is a fantastic school in a fantastic location. However, that also allows them to be less generous. But I agree with the other posters on here, no need to panic now, chill for a bit and make your decision closer to the deposit deadline. In Pacifica's case, she has tons of great options and already had a not so great experience at CLS -- so, her withdrawing now makes sense because ultimately you have to like where you are going, and she has better schools on the list anyway.

[pacifica]

I apologize for causing a "panic", albeit I think most comments here were reasonable and not far from the truths that hibiki was stating.

All I tried to get across was that it seems after you miss the boat on the Hamilton/Butler/PI-scholly, you're looking at only the "need aid" process as a resort for getting scholly. If you read my posts, it said I was told that this process had no merit component by the admin in their office, but later, in the email I pasted, I was wondering if that previous statement was true because of some of the hints dropped by the Director of Admissions (that I underlined).

I'm sure there is what we're calling merit-based $ outside of the Hamilton/Butler/PI-scholly, but it is not the type that just drops into your inbox or mailbox after the admissions process, like some of us have been spoiled by from Chicago, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Penn, et. al. From what I learned, any other scholly $ will have to come from at least the facade of going through the "need" based portion of the process.

As for myself, I'm withdrawing because as dickish as it sounds, anything short of a Hamilton makes it illogical for me to go to CLS in my position. I have HYS and the Ruby, and I'll be 27 with no savings (since I'm what you call a professional student) when I start law school, so 50%-25%-0% parental asset calculations for the three years of law school means I'll be getting close to a Butler-priced need-based scholly from HYS. That being said, being delayed and bounced around during my communications with Columbia definitely did not help. I withdrew now as opposed to later because I know many others would love a spot at CLS without the snobbery, like many have rightfully pointed out, so I don't want to take their spot.

I apologize again for being a total bitch through this, but thought it was a useful experience to share b/c several TLSers and LSNers have asked me for updates since I assume they're in similar positions.

[az21833]

i think i get it, they just fudge and call merit-aid "need-aid"? thats really odd. but thanks for all the helpful information pacifica and hibaki.

in any case, when do we usually hear back from Columbia (that uva 4/4 deadline looms large) and when exactly should i send in my other offers, now with fafsa/need or after i hear back from CU?

[UtilityMonster]

I apologize for causing a "panic", albeit I think most comments here were reasonable and not far from the truths that hibiki was stating.

All I tried to get across was that it seems after you miss the boat on the Hamilton/Butler/PI-scholly, you're looking at only the "need aid" process as a resort for getting scholly. If you read my posts, it said I was told that this process had no merit component by the admin in their office, but later, in the email I pasted, I was wondering if that previous statement was true because of some of the hints dropped by the Director of Admissions (that I underlined).

I'm sure there is what we're calling merit-based $ outside of the Hamilton/Butler/PI-scholly, but it is not the type that just drops into your inbox or mailbox after the admissions process, like some of us have been spoiled by from Chicago, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Penn, et. al. From what I learned, any other scholly $ will have to come from at least the facade of going through the "need" based portion of the process.

As for myself, I'm withdrawing because as dickish as it sounds, anything short of a Hamilton makes it illogical for me to go to CLS in my position. I have HYS and the Ruby, and I'll be 27 with no savings (since I'm what you call a professional student) when I start law school, so 50%-25%-0% parental asset calculations for the three years of law school means I'll be getting close to a Butler-priced need-based scholly from HYS. That being said, being delayed and bounced around during my communications with Columbia definitely did not help. I withdrew now as opposed to later because I know many others would love a spot at CLS without the snobbery, like many have rightfully pointed out, so I don't want to take their spot.

I apologize again for being a total bitch through this, but thought it was a useful experience to share b/c several TLSers and LSNers have asked me for updates since I assume they're in similar positions.

I don't think you should like a bitch at all. Maybe that is just because I am in a similar situation. I didn't get any merit $ from Columbia even though I'm at their 75th percentile LSAT and my GPA > their 75th, so I was pretty annoyed by this. Columbia sticker v. Harvard sticker is a no brainer, and Columbia sticker v. Ruby is also a no brainer, so I'm going to be withdrawing soon as well. Also, NYU just came through with a nice scholarship for me today, so if for some odd reason I decide I simply must go to school in in New York City, that will be my school of choice.

[eph]

For what it is worth I also found Columbia's admission approach to be odd. They just never contacted me at all after having my app for over 4 months, while during the same period being admitted to HYS, months ahead of their timetable. I know their ED program slows the RD down and it must be they like it the way it is. Then again it is not their job to make me happy.

[TexasAggie13]

IN!!! 172, 3.8, was so excited I forgot to check the postmark date but I will post it once I get back home!

[Audeamus]

IN!!! 172, 3.8, was so excited I forgot to check the postmark date but I will post it once I get back home!

congrats! complete date?