UC Irvine c/o 2018 Forum

[Iagreetotheseterms]

You all bring up some legitimate points.

The evidence for both attending and not attending is there. I think it comes down to personal choice/offer/goals/etc.

meh

Indeed.

[james_byrd74]

That only a small number of students would go work at public interest is an inevitable outcome of making a school just like every other, but don't take my word for it.

https://www.nlg.org/law-students/nlg-ra ... nt-project

I don't consider myself radical, but I agree with them that the current law school model is not meant to help disadvantaged people be it students of the public.

@LawsRUs if you have a great scholarship it would be justifiable to attend.

I don't disagree with anything in that article. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the nature and culture of law school coupled with the reality that the bulk of us will have six figures of debt will influence many social justice-minded students to work in private practice, providing services that offer little to no societal benefit.

That being said, it doesn't further your point that UC Irvine, specifically, is deliberately pulling a "bait and switch" on ideological students. You just modified your argument to say, essentially, that this the nature of law school and practice, in general. I would argue that such is evidence of my above stance--The school can lead their students to water, but it can't make them drink it. Social justice minded students typically work in private practice due to personal, social, and economic pressures that have nothing to do with the intentions of their law school.

[Drowninmyowntears]

Having just been there and talked with at least 8 different students, they all were very confident in jobs they had lined up and said you shouldn't have a hard time getting a job unless you want to practice on the East Coast. You lack the network over there so it's much hard to get into that market, but they said if you're just looking in CA, you would be fine. I guess it just depends what you're looking for. You'd probably have a hard time if you want to do big law, but I feel like that's the case for pretty much any school that's not T14.



Plus, I'm not sure which stats you are looking at that are so bad. It looks like UCI's employment rates are around 80-84%, UC Hastings is 73%, UC Davis 88%.... I mean it's right in there. Especially considering it's such a new school and it doesn't have the same alumni network as the other schools, I think that's great.

Talking to 8 people is anecdotal evidence. How do you know I lack the network? When I visited, I drove to the school.

UCI has a 21.43 % unemployment rate for the class of 2013. Hastings has a 22.7% unemployment rate. For $50,000 a year one would expect that a quarter of the class wouldn't be completely jobless 9 months after graduation.

UCI said it was going to be a top 20 school, yet it is not. UCI said it was going to be focused on public service, yet only 3 of its 2013 graduates are working in public interest. What they're doing is pulling a bait and switch on idealistic students!

These are the stats I'm looking at.

http://www.law.uci.edu/careers/students ... -2013.html
http://uchastings.edu/career-office/doc ... ts2013.pdf

Sorry, I should have been more clear! When I said "you lack the network over there" I meant students who attend UCI are building networks in SoCal so generally don't have the network on the East Coast that most students attending law school over there would have. That's why it would be harder to crack that market.

Honestly, considering that Hastings was founded in 1878 and UCI in 2002, I'd say that UCI is doing very well considering it has a much smaller alum network. I see a huge possibility for growth for UCI! @LawsRUs was correct... they said a lot students do clerkships after their first year (which are very prestigious positions actually)

Also, the rankings haven't come out yet, so you can't accuse them of lying about their ranking. Even if they aren't top 20 when they come out, you can't accuse them of lying when all they were really just estimating. Even they can't know for sure what their ranking will be.

[rion91]

Added banner.

[LawsRUs]

Added banner.

looks beautiful

[lizzielemon]

Anyone still not hear back? Went complete 1/9.

[rion91]

Anyone still not hear back? Went complete 1/9.

Good luck! I would give it a little bit more time though.


Also, if anyone is interested, UCI did decently in placing in NLJ 250 (14 out of 93 students) for c/o 2014.
http://www.nationallawjournal.com/home/ ... 0123095453

[LawsRUs]

why are you so awesome rion thx for finding that

that bit of news both excites and disappoints me. its good that they r placing well into firms but i thought they were gonna channel kids into pi. whats up uci? is it really the fact that someone mentioned above: no jobs in pi?? i didnt apply to uci to get a law firm job, i already know big law is not for me

pssst rion i cld see u matriculating here

[Harry_Pluxen]

I have been complete since 1/16/15 via e-mail from UCI. Any benchmark on how long it takes them to review an applicants file?

[rion91]

why are you so awesome rion thx for finding that

that bit of news both excites and disappoints me. its good that they r placing well into firms but i thought they were gonna channel kids into pi. whats up uci? is it really the fact that someone mentioned above: no jobs in pi?? i didnt apply to uci to get a law firm job, i already know big law is not for me

pssst rion i cld see u matriculating here

I am seriously seriously considering attending UCI, but ultimately I am looking at where all the dominoes fall before I make my final choice

I think the reality of it is that the lack of placement in PI is not just a UCI problem, but a systemic problem with incentives. I dabbled in PI as a volunteer and a lot of it is working with indigent people who are on the line in losing their livelihoods. It is a high stress job with a lot of overturn. Not to mention there is little funding out there, so non-profits are always trying to carefully balance financially rewarding cases (what government or its donors want) vs picking up the cases it wants. That is, you may want to fix institutionalized racism, but they want you to pick up headlining cases for good PR like helping out a local homeless shelter. In my state, I know that the state bar is a big source of funds for the non-profit I worked for, and often it is a detriment for bar members when non-profits want to give out free legal aid to underrepresented communities because it hurts local divorce or traffic lawyers.

I get a feeling a lot of people wanting PI think they can sit in a shiny new office in the middle of a downtown area with a nice paycheck and fix the world through influencing legislation. My experience shows that is far from the case. A lot of the attorneys I met at the non-profit were struggling to get by financially and their offices were far from sleek and modern. I think there is a huge disconnect between expectations and the reality, and once people actually have the chance to work in the field screening legal aid applications, it really hits them that maybe PI isn't for them. That's when they panic and go for the money.

[LawsRUs]

all fair points.

@harry, around two months for me but that was way earlier in my cycle

[horseshoe1]

also waiting to hear back. complete 1/21.

[zfletch74]

Checking in! Thought I got all my apps submitted a couple months ago, but circumstances have changed a little and I might have to stay in southern Cal. So here I am! Pretty excited about this school too.

[james_byrd74]

Checking in! Thought I got all my apps submitted a couple months ago, but circumstances have changed a little and I might have to stay in southern Cal. So here I am! Pretty excited about this school too.

Welcome! Best of luck in the admission cycle. Where in California are you from?

[zfletch74]

Checking in! Thought I got all my apps submitted a couple months ago, but circumstances have changed a little and I might have to stay in southern Cal. So here I am! Pretty excited about this school too.

Welcome! Best of luck in the admission cycle. Where in California are you from?

Thanks! I'm originally from Anaheim (and then lived in Reno, Nevada for the next 20 or so years), but I have been living in San Diego for the last 2 years.

[james_byrd74]

why are you so awesome rion thx for finding that

that bit of news both excites and disappoints me. its good that they r placing well into firms but i thought they were gonna channel kids into pi. whats up uci? is it really the fact that someone mentioned above: no jobs in pi?? i didnt apply to uci to get a law firm job, i already know big law is not for me

pssst rion i cld see u matriculating here

I am seriously seriously considering attending UCI, but ultimately I am looking at where all the dominoes fall before I make my final choice

I think the reality of it is that the lack of placement in PI is not just a UCI problem, but a systemic problem with incentives. I dabbled in PI as a volunteer and a lot of it is working with indigent people who are on the line in losing their livelihoods. It is a high stress job with a lot of overturn. Not to mention there is little funding out there, so non-profits are always trying to carefully balance financially rewarding cases (what government or its donors want) vs picking up the cases it wants. That is, you may want to fix institutionalized racism, but they want you to pick up headlining cases for good PR like helping out a local homeless shelter. In my state, I know that the state bar is a big source of funds for the non-profit I worked for, and often it is a detriment for bar members when non-profits want to give out free legal aid to underrepresented communities because it hurts local divorce or traffic lawyers.

I get a feeling a lot of people wanting PI think they can sit in a shiny new office in the middle of a downtown area with a nice paycheck and fix the world through influencing legislation. My experience shows that is far from the case. A lot of the attorneys I met at the non-profit were struggling to get by financially and their offices were far from sleek and modern. I think there is a huge disconnect between expectations and the reality, and once people actually have the chance to work in the field screening legal aid applications, it really hits them that maybe PI isn't for them. That's when they panic and go for the money.

This was definitely the primary issue most public agencies and non-profits had recruiting and keeping attorneys 10+ years ago. I imagine this remains to be a big problem in states without grossly saturated legal markets, particularly the parts of the country (i.e., the South) that still pay public defenders representing capital defendants just above the poverty threshold.

In California, and more specifically, coastal communities in California (LA/OC/SD), there are far more attorneys seeking positions in public interest contexts than the current job market has to offer. Many government agencies and non-profits in California pay very reasonable wages. Not to mention, thanks to LRAP and IBR programs, public interest is far more rational than it was in the past.

As I mentioned above, I know a large amount of attorneys currently looking for PI-related jobs as we speak, but can't find one and are forced to work in the private sector in the interim. I can assure you that the dearth of students entering PI immediately out of CA law schools these days is caused, first and foremost, by the lack of available full-time, bar-required positions.

You're absolutely right, however, that if you're expecting prestige and impact litigation, you're destined for upset. There are ways to accomplish one or the other (rarely both) through public interest work, but those jobs are few and far between. Moreover, it'll take years of success and a lot more luck to attain either.

[LawsRUs]

Q: Do you think if I wanted PI, a better choice would be CUNY than UCI?

(I've gotten into both.)
(UCI CoA wld come out to ~$75k before negotiations, and CUNY wld be no more expensive than that, i might be able to get full tuition there.)
(I'm not looking into high impact PI litigation. Anything that helps in the public sector, in legal services or legal aid.)

damn it, i can't believe myself for comparing both schools together, but I really want PI

as a pt of comparison: cuny places 50% into PI jobs

[rion91]

Q: Do you think if I wanted PI, a better choice would be CUNY than UCI?

(I've gotten into both.)
(UCI CoA wld come out to ~$75k before negotiations, and CUNY wld be no more expensive than that, i might be able to get full tuition there.)
(I'm not looking into high impact PI litigation. Anything that helps in the public sector, in legal services or legal aid.)

damn it, i can't believe myself for comparing both schools together, but I really want PI

as a pt of comparison: cuny places 50% into PI jobs

Good Q, I think you have to decide first if you want to practice in NY vs Cali. If that doesn't work, then you should look at their respective LRAP and stipulations for the debt.

edit: fixed up first page, anything you guys like to see there?

[Kayak1277]

Officially submitted my SIR. Look forward to seeing everyone at Accepted Students Weekend and hopefully next fall!

[LawsRUs]

Officially submitted my SIR. Look forward to seeing everyone at Accepted Students Weekend and hopefully next fall!

o dang !! congrats on your decision to matriculate (assuming you aren't double depositing)

--------

@rion, thanks very much for your feedback.
first page looks beautiful. asw dates / conditions for travel stipends / date we have to submit SIR / that no deposit $ is required to SIR? / link to housing, employment / can you throw in a link to clinics / we can be generous to uci and put up a PI section = pro bono list + LRAP + Al Meyerhoff PI Fellowship

eta: also, info about how in your 1st yr, you hv to participate in clinics as a part of experiential learning

[LawsRUs]

clerkship placement / awesomeness of dean chem, maybe a link to that youtube video, "A Case Against USSC," that was pretty solid

eta: under PI section: also, http://www.law.uci.edu/about/public-ser ... /2013.html

[iguazu]

Scholarship negotiation anyone?

[LawsRUs]

Scholarship negotiation anyone?

Not yet for me. I don't have all the offers yet.
But if you do have all yours, go for it !! The time is now. Good luck !! And pls report back to us if you had any successes.

[rion91]

Scholarship negotiation anyone?

Yeah honestly IDK until USNWR rankings come out because I cannot tell who are UCI's perceived competitors. UCLA/UCB/USC/Stanford? For sure. After that, idk. UC Hastings and Davis probably...?! Loyola/Pepperdine maybe?

[iguazu]

Scholarship negotiation anyone?

Yeah honestly IDK until USNWR rankings come out because I cannot tell who are UCI's perceived competitors. UCLA/UCB/USC/Stanford? For sure. After that, idk. UC Hastings and Davis probably...?! Loyola/Pepperdine maybe?

I gave it a shot and was told they'll reconsider schol$ in mid-April once they have commitments and more funds available. I'm not hoping for much, but a little something extra would help cut down on that OC CoL