SMU Dedman Law c/o 18 Applicants Forum

[bound]

even though SMU doesn't negotiate, do you guys think that if they offered me a certain amount, then I retook the LSAT in February, they'd up my scholarship offer up one package (if I don't get 30, obviously)? They don't negotiate with other schools as leverage, but would they use increased stats?

Nope.

Source: I did it last cycle. And so did another user (you can see her comments in another thread). She went up from like a 167 to a 172 and they didn't increase.

[ilikebaseball]

Well that's stupid. Hopefully they make it a non issue by offering the 30 outright

[Stevoman]

I submitted on 12/10 and was complete a week later. Is it too early to be hearing back? 4.0 with an almost complete (will graduate in May) M.S. in bioethics- also a 4.0. 150 on LSAT without studying at all, which I know isn't great. I was pre-med, started the M.S., got hooked on health law. Lots of leadership experience, alumni at SMU, and work at a law firm in downtown Dallas as a legal assistant right now.

You will not get in with a 150. (Thank God.) They don't give a shit about your background or difficulty of your degree or anything like that. Softs do not get factored into their law school ranking. All that matters is your LSAT and UGPA.

Put some effort into studying, retake, and apply next cycle.

[ilikebaseball]

I submitted on 12/10 and was complete a week later. Is it too early to be hearing back? 4.0 with an almost complete (will graduate in May) M.S. in bioethics- also a 4.0. 150 on LSAT without studying at all, which I know isn't great. I was pre-med, started the M.S., got hooked on health law. Lots of leadership experience, alumni at SMU, and work at a law firm in downtown Dallas as a legal assistant right now.

You will not get in with a 150. (Thank God.) They don't give a shit about your background or difficulty of your degree or anything like that. Softs do not get factored into their law school ranking. All that matters is your LSAT and UGPA.

Put some effort into studying, retake, and apply next cycle.

blatantly unnecessary. You're right, but there's about a million other ways you can say it.

[Iwanttolawschool]

Is 30 a year the max they offer? You all seem to be alluding to that.

[ilikebaseball]

Is 30 a year the max they offer? You all seem to be alluding to that.

30 a year is the highest they offer with no stipulation. I think they offer a 35 a year with like a top 1/3rd stipulation. And I know you can apply for a full scholarship, but you also must maintain above 1/3rd in the class with that as well.

And most people would agree that 30k a year with no stipulation is better than 35k a year with one. Far less pressure and stress for a small difference in debt.

[TX_UH]

I didn't feel that they were stingy at all. 24k for being <25% GPA and slightly below median LSAT seemed pretty generous. I was still planning on a negotiating because it doesn't hurt, but I was pleasantly surprised with the offer they gave me. They gave me more than Baylor did, and Baylor is more expensive.

Stingy was probably a bit harsh. I mean they are offering less than others that are similar in the rankings/region. Here's to luck!

Good luck! Have you visited both schools? I loved my visit at Baylor, but the lower offer and anti-Baylor sentiment on here has sort of scared me off. I imagine it's incredibly hard though to justify turning down a full ride.

I haven't visited either yet but I will shortly. But given it's reputation as a litigator factory, I'm hesitant about Baylor since I don't know if I want to be a litigator. The most important considerations for me are minimizing debt/maximizing job placement probability.

For a pricey private school, they sure are stingy. I still have to try. With a full-tuition scholarship to Baylor and about a half-scholly to SMU, I would think they would consider moving a little. I'll report back if I have any luck.

Because they know that SMU is an objectively better choice than Baylor.

Given my priorities, I'll ask this group for your opinions. I've estimated the amount of debt that I would have after graduating from Baylor v. SMU. I realize this isn't the right forum for this sort of thing but I would value this groups opinion. I would like to know which school y'all think I should favor attending. Considerations:
-Not committed to being litigator
-Would like to minimize debt
-Would like to have ample job opportunities in an urban environment
-Debt upon graduation from Baylor $33,792 & SMU $108,481

Thoughts?

[Accountanon]

Given my priorities, I'll ask this group for your opinions. I've estimated the amount of debt that I would have after graduating from Baylor v. SMU. I realize this isn't the right forum for this sort of thing but I would value this groups opinion. I would like to know which school y'all think I should favor attending. Considerations:
-Not committed to being litigator
-Would like to minimize debt
-Would like to have ample job opportunities in an urban environment
-Debt upon graduation from Baylor $33,792 & SMU $108,481

Thoughts?[/quote]




I would still do SMU. I am assuming the large difference is that you got a full scholarship from Baylor and not SMU. The way I see it is that even with the higher debt and thus larger loan payment, you are likely to earn marginally more out of the gate coming from SMU. For instance, if you are going to make $70k out of Baylor and $80k out of SMU, and the increased loan payment is only $5k a year, you are still to the good $5k. However, if you land a $125k job out of Baylor, you could pay off the entire loan the first year.

And Baylor is definitely a litigator factory. Apparently two of the nine quarter-mesters are devoted to moot court and nothing else. It's also grueling for the sake of developing "work ethic," so they think. In contrast, SMU essentially closes campus on Fridays.

For me, SMU was the choice because I want to go into non-litigation corporate, bankruptcy, and tax law. I feel SMU fits me better and has more to offer than Baylor in these areas.

[Big Red]

Given my priorities, I'll ask this group for your opinions. I've estimated the amount of debt that I would have after graduating from Baylor v. SMU. I realize this isn't the right forum for this sort of thing but I would value this groups opinion. I would like to know which school y'all think I should favor attending. Considerations:
-Not committed to being litigator
-Would like to minimize debt
-Would like to have ample job opportunities in an urban environment
-Debt upon graduation from Baylor $33,792 & SMU $108,481

Thoughts?

I would maybe take this here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=1

ETA: Oops, bad RC. Still, I don't feel comfortable answering a question like that considering I've never gone into debt and couldn't contribute meaningfully to a risk/reward evaluation

[Stevoman]

Given my priorities, I'll ask this group for your opinions. I've estimated the amount of debt that I would have after graduating from Baylor v. SMU. I realize this isn't the right forum for this sort of thing but I would value this groups opinion. I would like to know which school y'all think I should favor attending. Considerations:
-Not committed to being litigator
-Would like to minimize debt
-Would like to have ample job opportunities in an urban environment
-Debt upon graduation from Baylor $33,792 & SMU $108,481

Thoughts?

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... sals/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/smu/sals/2013/

SMU is more likely to get you a job, and the job is more likely to be higher-paying.

Also, I don't know how your math is working, but I don't get how SMU is so much more expensive for you with a half-tuition scholarship. Your out of pocket tuition should be about $60k. Yes, living expenses blah blah for your first year, but you really should be working by your second year, and Dallas is going to have way more job opportunities than Waco.

I would still do SMU. I am assuming the large difference is that you got a full scholarship from Baylor and not SMU. The way I see it is that even with the higher debt and thus larger loan payment, you are likely to earn marginally more out of the gate coming from SMU. For instance, if you are going to make $70k out of Baylor and $80k out of SMU, and the increased loan payment is only $5k a year, you are still to the good $5k. However, if you land a $125k job out of Baylor, you could pay off the entire loan the first year.

General life advice, not specific to law school selection:

Looking at money as "$X/month in payments" instead of the total amount borrowed is an awful way to run your personal finances, don't base your choice on that. Run the math on how much that $5k/year in loan payments actually costs you and you will be shocked.

[TX_UH]

Given my priorities, I'll ask this group for your opinions. I've estimated the amount of debt that I would have after graduating from Baylor v. SMU. I realize this isn't the right forum for this sort of thing but I would value this groups opinion. I would like to know which school y'all think I should favor attending. Considerations:
-Not committed to being litigator
-Would like to minimize debt
-Would like to have ample job opportunities in an urban environment
-Debt upon graduation from Baylor $33,792 & SMU $108,481

Thoughts?

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... sals/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/smu/sals/2013/

SMU is more likely to get you a job, and the job is more likely to be higher-paying.

Also, I don't know how your math is working, but I don't get how SMU is so much more expensive for you with a half-tuition scholarship. Your out of pocket tuition should be about $60k. Yes, living expenses blah blah for your first year, but you really should be working by your second year, and Dallas is going to have way more job opportunities than Waco.

I would still do SMU. I am assuming the large difference is that you got a full scholarship from Baylor and not SMU. The way I see it is that even with the higher debt and thus larger loan payment, you are likely to earn marginally more out of the gate coming from SMU. For instance, if you are going to make $70k out of Baylor and $80k out of SMU, and the increased loan payment is only $5k a year, you are still to the good $5k. However, if you land a $125k job out of Baylor, you could pay off the entire loan the first year.

General life advice, not specific to law school selection:

Looking at money as "$X/month in payments" instead of the total amount borrowed is an awful way to run your personal finances, don't base your choice on that. Run the math on how much that $5k/year in loan payments actually costs you and you will be shocked.

Thanks for the advice so far. To answer the math questions, I have not accounted for any earned income while in law school. I wanted to create a fairly conservative estimate of debt and did not want to assume any employment until graduation.

[p1921]

My costs are similar, and I got to the ~100k value when I added cost of living expenses. Hopefully it'll be less with money from summer internships and stuff. But like you, I don't really want to be a litigator and have think SMU would be a much better choice. UH is still in the hunt though and I haven't heard from UT.

Decisions, decisions...

[ilikebaseball]

I'm so fortunate that I'll be able to live at home lol. Makes the decision a lot easier

[Stevoman]

I heard through the grapevine that the first round of acceptances are going out soon...good luck everyone.

[bound]

I heard through the grapevine that the first round of acceptances are going out soon...good luck everyone.

The first round went out in November lol.

[TX_UH]

My costs are similar, and I got to the ~100k value when I added cost of living expenses. Hopefully it'll be less with money from summer internships and stuff. But like you, I don't really want to be a litigator and have think SMU would be a much better choice. UH is still in the hunt though and I haven't heard from UT.

Decisions, decisions...

Sounds like I'm in the same boat as you with UH (assuming you're accepted) and UT as well.

[LVbucknell]

SMU actually will negotiate. I contacted them last week. They want me to create a spreadsheet for them breaking down the costs of attendance of each school I have been accepted to and the scholarships I have received. They said specifically they will only do this once, and after that it will be there final offer. just wanted to let everyone know it is possible.

[ilikebaseball]

SMU actually will negotiate. I contacted them last week. They want me to create a spreadsheet for them breaking down the costs of attendance of each school I have been accepted to and the scholarships I have received. They said specifically they will only do this once, and after that it will be there final offer. just wanted to let everyone know it is possible.

wait, seriously?

[LVbucknell]

SMU actually will negotiate. I contacted them last week. They want me to create a spreadsheet for them breaking down the costs of attendance of each school I have been accepted to and the scholarships I have received. They said specifically they will only do this once, and after that it will be there final offer. just wanted to let everyone know it is possible.

wait, seriously?

This is the body of the email I got

"I have attached a document outlining a few additional things that we need to reconsider your scholarship amount. Please note that our committee will only re-visit this amount one time, so please make sure that you include all offers.

Once I receive this additional information, I will forward to our committee."

[ilikebaseball]

SMU actually will negotiate. I contacted them last week. They want me to create a spreadsheet for them breaking down the costs of attendance of each school I have been accepted to and the scholarships I have received. They said specifically they will only do this once, and after that it will be there final offer. just wanted to let everyone know it is possible.

wait, seriously?

This is the body of the email I got

"I have attached a document outlining a few additional things that we need to reconsider your scholarship amount. Please note that our committee will only re-visit this amount one time, so please make sure that you include all offers.

Once I receive this additional information, I will forward to our committee."

Did you just ask them, or did you have like a higher GPA or LSAT? And what are you putting on the spreadsheet for them to compare to, schools wise?

[LVbucknell]

SMU actually will negotiate. I contacted them last week. They want me to create a spreadsheet for them breaking down the costs of attendance of each school I have been accepted to and the scholarships I have received. They said specifically they will only do this once, and after that it will be there final offer. just wanted to let everyone know it is possible.

wait, seriously?

This is the body of the email I got

"I have attached a document outlining a few additional things that we need to reconsider your scholarship amount. Please note that our committee will only re-visit this amount one time, so please make sure that you include all offers.

Once I receive this additional information, I will forward to our committee."

Did you just ask them, or did you have like a higher GPA or LSAT? And what are you putting on the spreadsheet for them to compare to, schools wise?

Im at the 50% LSAT and 25% GPA but from a good undergrad, and good internships and recommendations. Yeah im going to send a spreadsheet.


here is the text of the attachment they sent me

"As a general rule, SMU does not negotiate scholarship offers, nor do we adjust awards based on

other offers received.

You may request a one-time reconsideration of your scholarship offer. To request

reconsideration, please submit the following to the Office of Admissions at lawadmit@smu.edu:

Copies of all competing scholarship offers you would like the Committee to consider,

including:

1. The amount of scholarship

2. The tuition and fees for the school

3. The cost of attendance for the school

Incomplete or multiple requests will not be considered.

The Committee will not adjust awards based on prestige/rankings of other schools/offers."

[ilikebaseball]

Okay, so basically ranking doesnt matter? (i mean, it probably does, but they say it doesnt) So, you're just gonna send all your offers and sorta hope they do? Just seeing if I understand it correctly. Its no guarantee that they'll change it, regardless of your offers, correct?

[LVbucknell]

Okay, so basically ranking doesnt matter? (i mean, it probably does, but they say it doesnt) So, you're just gonna send all your offers and sorta hope they do? Just seeing if I understand it correctly. Its no guarantee that they'll change it, regardless of your offers, correct?

Correct. I think they are looking for a cost of attendance financial evaluation regardless of the rankings. Obviously they will take higher ranked schools with large scholarships more seriously and there is no guarantee, but at least they were willing to consider it at this point. I'm going to wait a little while before I send it because I am in the process of negotiating with other schools to up my scholarships, so i can send those to SMU too. But I have a full ride at Penn State, which has very cheap Cost of living, and a similar scholarship at Colorado, but I have the option to live with family there, so I'll be able to subtract housing expenses from that cost of attendance.

[ilikebaseball]

may I ask where else you have offers from besides those two? (don't have to go into detail ABOUT the offers if you dont want)

[LVbucknell]

may I ask where else you have offers from besides those two? (don't have to go into detail ABOUT the offers if you dont want)

I have 1/2 to 3/4 to San Diego, Oregon, Lewis and Clark, Denver, Colorado, SMU
Full to Penn State

Pending Scholarships at Richmond, American, UC Hastings, Boston College, and Wake Forest

Also been accepted to teach for america with an extended commit deadline, basically so I can use it to negotiate.