Georgetown c/o 2016 Applicants (2012-2013) Forum

[enjoyddyy]

So... I was not invited to apply for merit $, but I've been meaning to beg for some with a very nice LOCI and a few offers from other schools. Should I:

a) move fast, before they run out of money
b) wait for all of this to blow over
c) give up

Not to discourage you, but I was in your position and I shoot them an email asking to be considered. Dean was nice and replied that the Scholarship Committee would consider me, which got my hopes up, but only to find out this morning that they are unable to offer any.

Ah, well that is a little disheartening. I suppose that I should move though if I want to be considered at all. Did you include other offers in your email?

Thanks for your help!

I did, $120,000 from USC, and I also said if they could offer me more than half of that and I would put down my deposit right away. I wasn't expecting much from them, but nothing to offer still comes as a disappointment.

[jbagelboy]

I don't understand whats going on here. I got into Georgetown back in early December. I've never received any information about scholarship offers. Were you guys all contacted by email about this? How did this all come about? All I know is I have to submit this blue/yellow form business by the 20th...

[risa]

I don't understand whats going on here. I got into Georgetown back in early December. I've never received any information about scholarship offers. Were you guys all contacted by email about this? How did this all come about? All I know is I have to submit this blue/yellow form business by the 20th...

yes, some of us were contacted by email in early February and told that we were being considered for merit aid. We were asked to reply by 2/4 and give admissions an idea of "what level of funding" would make a difference in our decision. Over the last two days, some of this group got emails saying we are "finalists" for merit aid and have to submit a 150 essay by this Friday morning. Others from the initial email group just got a response saying they were not being offered merit aid at this time.

FYI, I just double-checked GULC's financial aid website and it says the yellow form will not be available until March.

[dsn32]

Never have received any correspondence from them, but reading this thread makes me sick lol. I'm going to keep my app active until the day before the deadline, then tell them I want full COA or I'm not coming. Screw them, this is extremely unethical.

[BigZuck]

Never have received any correspondence from them, but reading this thread makes me sick lol. I'm going to keep my app active until the day before the deadline, then tell them I want full COA or I'm not coming. Screw them, this is extremely unethical.

Many people have said similar things, I'm struggling to see how ethics enter into it.

I'm not seeing how this is different than being encouraged to apply for the Vandy full rides and then not being given one or something similar to that. Help me understand the ethics of it all, it really is lost on me.

[dsn32]

Never have received any correspondence from them, but reading this thread makes me sick lol. I'm going to keep my app active until the day before the deadline, then tell them I want full COA or I'm not coming. Screw them, this is extremely unethical.

Many people have said similar things, I'm struggling to see how ethics enter into it.

I'm not seeing how this is different than being encouraged to apply for the Vandy full rides and then not being given one or something similar to that. Help me understand the ethics of it all, it really is lost on me.

Maybe unethical isn't the right word. But you certainly aren't building a very trustworthy relationship with your future student body. Seems like Georgetown is admitting it's status as a diploma-mill and is in business for the $$$ now. I applied to UGs that did similar things, and I have no doubt that this is the reasoning.

[bluecouch]

Never have received any correspondence from them, but reading this thread makes me sick lol. I'm going to keep my app active until the day before the deadline, then tell them I want full COA or I'm not coming. Screw them, this is extremely unethical.

I really don't see how it is unethical. They selected a group of prospective students they wanted to consider for merit funding. They asked that group to make an argument for how serious they were about Georgetown and what level of funding would make a difference. After looking at what were essentially LOCIs and a form of aid negotiations, they selected a smaller group of prospective students to be finalists for the merit funding they have. Once they see the responses, they'll make a decision. This doesn't strike me as much different than aid negotiation at other schools, with the exception that, if they feel like you have a shot for aid with your initial application, they proactively ask you about your request instead of you coming to them with a request.

Is it unethical for a school to not offer you aid when they admit you, or offer you less than you want, and then you try to negotiate with them? No. Are there systems at other schools where you apply for merit aid and then go through a selection process? Yes. Are those unethical? No. I really don't see how this is much different.

[trobriander]

I don't understand whats going on here. I got into Georgetown back in early December. I've never received any information about scholarship offers. Were you guys all contacted by email about this? How did this all come about? All I know is I have to submit this blue/yellow form business by the 20th...

Where do you find the blue/yellow form business? Is it 20th of this month?

[trobriander]

Never have received any correspondence from them, but reading this thread makes me sick lol. I'm going to keep my app active until the day before the deadline, then tell them I want full COA or I'm not coming. Screw them, this is extremely unethical.

I really don't see how it is unethical. They selected a group of prospective students they wanted to consider for merit funding. They asked that group to make an argument for how serious they were about Georgetown and what level of funding would make a difference. After looking at what were essentially LOCIs and a form of aid negotiations, they selected a smaller group of prospective students to be finalists for the merit funding they have. Once they see the responses, they'll make a decision. This doesn't strike me as much different than aid negotiation at other schools, with the exception that, if they feel like you have a shot for aid with your initial application, they proactively ask you about your request instead of you coming to them with a request.

Is it unethical for a school to not offer you aid when they admit you, or offer you less than you want, and then you try to negotiate with them? No. Are there systems at other schools where you apply for merit aid and then go through a selection process? Yes. Are those unethical? No. I really don't see how this is much different.

Thank you!

[Crowing]

Never have received any correspondence from them, but reading this thread makes me sick lol. I'm going to keep my app active until the day before the deadline, then tell them I want full COA or I'm not coming. Screw them, this is extremely unethical.

I really don't see how it is unethical. They selected a group of prospective students they wanted to consider for merit funding. They asked that group to make an argument for how serious they were about Georgetown and what level of funding would make a difference. After looking at what were essentially LOCIs and a form of aid negotiations, they selected a smaller group of prospective students to be finalists for the merit funding they have. Once they see the responses, they'll make a decision. This doesn't strike me as much different than aid negotiation at other schools, with the exception that, if they feel like you have a shot for aid with your initial application, they proactively ask you about your request instead of you coming to them with a request.

Is it unethical for a school to not offer you aid when they admit you, or offer you less than you want, and then you try to negotiate with them? No. Are there systems at other schools where you apply for merit aid and then go through a selection process? Yes. Are those unethical? No. I really don't see how this is much different.

I think people are upset because this policy essentially circumvents the entire negotiation process. Typically you would have several acceptances and offers in hand and would use those as leverage to try to gain new/increase current offers. GULC essentially asked admits to give them one number, and if they didn't want to pay that number, offered nothing. They put the ball in prospies' courts which makes people understandably suspicious about YP practices. I dunno if I would go so far as to call it unethical, but it certainly is unconventional and disadvantageous to the students. I can understand why people are upset.

[bluecouch]

Never have received any correspondence from them, but reading this thread makes me sick lol. I'm going to keep my app active until the day before the deadline, then tell them I want full COA or I'm not coming. Screw them, this is extremely unethical.

I really don't see how it is unethical. They selected a group of prospective students they wanted to consider for merit funding. They asked that group to make an argument for how serious they were about Georgetown and what level of funding would make a difference. After looking at what were essentially LOCIs and a form of aid negotiations, they selected a smaller group of prospective students to be finalists for the merit funding they have. Once they see the responses, they'll make a decision. This doesn't strike me as much different than aid negotiation at other schools, with the exception that, if they feel like you have a shot for aid with your initial application, they proactively ask you about your request instead of you coming to them with a request.

Is it unethical for a school to not offer you aid when they admit you, or offer you less than you want, and then you try to negotiate with them? No. Are there systems at other schools where you apply for merit aid and then go through a selection process? Yes. Are those unethical? No. I really don't see how this is much different.

I think people are upset because this policy essentially circumvents the entire negotiation process. Typically you would have several acceptances and offers in hand and would use those as leverage to try to gain new/increase current offers. GULC essentially asked admits to give them one number, and if they didn't want to pay that number, offered nothing. They put the ball in prospies' courts which makes people understandably suspicious about YP practices. I dunno if I would go so far as to call it unethical, but it certainly is unconventional and disadvantageous to the students. I can understand why people are upset.

Well, I guess I don't actually expect to get the number I requested, although maybe something close. I saw it more as a the beginning of a negotiation -- albeit one governed by a more formal process than employed by other schools.

As the first mover, GULC does have the advantage. But it's not unethical. It probably helps them to better recruit students they really want and not waste offers on folks that they want but aren't as serious about attending.

All things are game theory... at least in my head.

[risa]

FWIW it's not really yield protection if they've already admitted these people, right? I get that it's the same general idea, perhaps, of not wasting a $ offer on someone who won't accept, but it's not actually helping their YP is it?

Edit: ok, I guess if you're thinking that offering the money this early to people who are serious (person A) will maybe sway those folks into enrolling, while offering the $ to those who weren't really serious (person B) wouldn't lead to person B enrolling anyways but the delay could also make them lose person A? I guess in that sense it could be YP...

[Crowing]

Well, I guess I don't actually expect to get the number I requested, although maybe something close. I saw it more as a the beginning of a negotiation -- albeit one governed by a more formal process than employed by other schools.

As the first mover, GULC does have the advantage. But it's not unethical. It probably helps them to better recruit students they really want and not waste offers on folks that they want but aren't as serious about attending.

All things are game theory... at least in my head.

If this was the case then yeah I agree it's not as big of a deal. But it seems like people are literally getting $0 in response to their initial request. That doesn't really leave any room for negotiating.

FWIW it's not really yield protection if they've already admitted these people, right? I get that it's the same general idea, perhaps, of not wasting a $ offer on someone who won't accept, but it's not actually helping their YP is it?

Edit: ok, I guess if you're thinking that offering the money this early to people who are serious (person A) will maybe sway those folks into enrolling, while offering the $ to those who weren't really serious (person B) wouldn't lead to person B enrolling anyways but the delay could also make them lose person A? I guess in that sense it could be YP...

Essentially this. Other schools tend to have a very transparent scholarship system (WUSTL is one that comes immediately to mind) through which you can easily predict your exact initial offer based on your numbers. GULC has always been really mysterious (from past cycles I've seen people with around my numbers get almost full rides but many more with better numbers get nothing). The YP theory is kinda conspiracy-esque I guess, but the idea is that GULC asks multiple applicants with identical numbers how much money they are looking for, then can choose to give offers to the people who ask for less and just give nothing to those who ask for more (essentially encouraging them to withdraw I guess). It's sort of a way to pay out as little scholarship money as possible.

Once again, I'm not saying it's unethical. It's just different and not what people have come to expect. Traditionally admissions is kind of a game in which the schools hold the power before you're admitted but you have more leverage once you get your decision.

[BigZuck]

Once again, for people who think they are refusing applicants who asked for too much, I asked for the moon and basically told them that I could not attend unless they beat offers from lower ranked schools and I am a "finalist." I am certainly not a "finalist" because of how little I asked for.

[bluecouch]

The YP theory is kinda conspiracy-esque I guess, but the idea is that GULC asks multiple applicants with identical numbers how much money they are looking for, then can choose to give offers to the people who ask for less and just give nothing to those who ask for more (essentially encouraging them to withdraw I guess). It's sort of a way to pay out as little scholarship money as possible.

If that was how it worked, I guess I might be upset, too. fwiw, their email does say that their process is holistic. I know it sounds like bullshit, but I don't think it is. I know that numbers are important, but if they are looking for a class with a diverse set of experiences, numbers may matter less.

I think we place too much importance on numbers when we discuss this stuff b/c that's what we can easily see in our profiles. But we don't see our softs/interests/WE etc that schools might care about when making merit aid decisions. So when two people with the same numbers get different merit aid responses, my first instinct would be that there is something about one applicant that the school really likes -- whether it's work experience, academic interests, background or whatever -- more so than another with similar numbers.

Edit: Also, like BigZuck, I asked for a lot with less than drool-worthy numbers.

[jym_dawg]

Never have received any correspondence from them, but reading this thread makes me sick lol. I'm going to keep my app active until the day before the deadline, then tell them I want full COA or I'm not coming. Screw them, this is extremely unethical.

I really don't see how it is unethical. They selected a group of prospective students they wanted to consider for merit funding. They asked that group to make an argument for how serious they were about Georgetown and what level of funding would make a difference. After looking at what were essentially LOCIs and a form of aid negotiations, they selected a smaller group of prospective students to be finalists for the merit funding they have. Once they see the responses, they'll make a decision. This doesn't strike me as much different than aid negotiation at other schools, with the exception that, if they feel like you have a shot for aid with your initial application, they proactively ask you about your request instead of you coming to them with a request.

Is it unethical for a school to not offer you aid when they admit you, or offer you less than you want, and then you try to negotiate with them? No. Are there systems at other schools where you apply for merit aid and then go through a selection process? Yes. Are those unethical? No. I really don't see how this is much different.

I think people are upset because this policy essentially circumvents the entire negotiation process. Typically you would have several acceptances and offers in hand and would use those as leverage to try to gain new/increase current offers. GULC essentially asked admits to give them one number, and if they didn't want to pay that number, offered nothing. They put the ball in prospies' courts which makes people understandably suspicious about YP practices. I dunno if I would go so far as to call it unethical, but it certainly is unconventional and disadvantageous to the students. I can understand why people are upset.

Well, I guess I don't actually expect to get the number I requested, although maybe something close. I saw it more as a the beginning of a negotiation -- albeit one governed by a more formal process than employed by other schools.

As the first mover, GULC does have the advantage. But it's not unethical. It probably helps them to better recruit students they really want and not waste offers on folks that they want but aren't as serious about attending.

All things are game theory... at least in my head.

It's not even that G'town has a first mover advantage in the negotiation process. By neglecting to even make a first offer, they're foreclosing the money process entirely. That isn't exactly conducive to a good faith negotiation (or any negotiation fwiw), especially when some applicants who get $0 are ostensibly seriously interested in attending and have numbers that for other applicants will merit a scholarship offer. Of course GULC is constrained in the amounts it can offer and has to carefully plan out its offer strategy, but for individial applicants who receive $0, the idea of game theory isn't even applicable because one side flat out refuses to play ball. Makes for a very quick game.

BigZuck: Part of the concern is that we have little or no idea what the criteria for selection were. All we know is that two weeks ago a presumably holistic review of our applications earned consideration in the scholarship process. Now all we know is that some folks got $0, and in many cases neither numbers nor the size of the request entirely explains why. I'm sure you can recognize this exchange is frustrating when some applicants were (not irrationally) expecting some offer based on their applications.

[Crowing]

The YP theory is kinda conspiracy-esque I guess, but the idea is that GULC asks multiple applicants with identical numbers how much money they are looking for, then can choose to give offers to the people who ask for less and just give nothing to those who ask for more (essentially encouraging them to withdraw I guess). It's sort of a way to pay out as little scholarship money as possible.

If that was how it worked, I guess I might be upset, too. fwiw, their email does say that their process is holistic. I know it sounds like bullshit, but I don't think it is. I know that numbers are important, but if they are looking for a class with a diverse set of experiences, numbers may matter less.

I think we place too much importance on numbers when we discuss this stuff b/c that's what we can easily see in our profiles. But we don't see our softs/interests/WE etc that schools might care about when making merit aid decisions. So when two people with the same numbers get different merit aid responses, my first instinct would be that there is something about one applicant that the school really likes -- whether it's work experience, academic interests, background or whatever -- more so than another with similar numbers.

Edit: Also, like BigZuck, I asked for a lot with less than drool-worthy numbers.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that; I'm just sort of putting the ideas out there. It's easy to be cynical and hard to actually buy into the notion of holistic decisions, but I personally believe softs are far more important than common TLS knowledge suggests. However, I would still be skeptical of GULC claiming to be holistic with aid when they are easily one of the least holistic schools with regards to admissions. I mean I dunno; this whole application process is very easy to get butthurt about lol.

I personally didn't even get the first e-mail, and I have pretty good numbers for GULC. I just wish the entire merit aid process was more transparent especially because I think it would be mutually beneficial to both applicants and the school. I am not even going to consider GULC at sticker, but I don't want to withdraw if there is any possibility of getting $. It would be a lot better if there was a specific timetable to merit aid consideration so if I am sure that I missed the scholarship boat I can withdraw and move onto other plans and GULC can have another open spot.

[bluecouch]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that; I'm just sort of putting the ideas out there. It's easy to be cynical and hard to actually buy into the notion of holistic decisions, but I personally believe softs are far more important than common TLS knowledge suggests. However, I would still be skeptical of GULC claiming to be holistic with aid when they are easily one of the least holistic schools with regards to admissions. I mean I dunno; this whole application process is very easy to get butthurt about lol.

I personally didn't even get the first e-mail, and I have pretty good numbers for GULC. I just wish the entire merit aid process was more transparent especially because I think it would be mutually beneficial to both applicants and the school. I am not even going to consider GULC at sticker, but I don't want to withdraw if there is any possibility of getting $. It would be a lot better if there was a specific timetable to merit aid consideration so if I am sure that I missed the scholarship boat I can withdraw and move onto other plans and GULC can have another open spot.

Fair enough. I wish there were a much firmer timetable for just about every part of this process. It's hard to plan for next year when there is so much admission and $$$ uncertainty out there.

[Rory19]

I personally didn't even get the first e-mail, and I have pretty good numbers for GULC. I just wish the entire merit aid process was more transparent especially because I think it would be mutually beneficial to both applicants and the school. I am not even going to consider GULC at sticker, but I don't want to withdraw if there is any possibility of getting $. It would be a lot better if there was a specific timetable to merit aid consideration so if I am sure that I missed the scholarship boat I can withdraw and move onto other plans and GULC can have another open spot.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Although I am still considering Georgetown without any inclination of merit aid the lack of transparency in the process is very unsettling. If I did not follow this forum I would have no idea whether merit aid was still on the table. GULC should aspire to have an informative application process and how merit aid is distributed is an important part of that.

On a secondary note, has anyone heard about PILS scholarships? Last year results did not come out until late March.

[J_stack]

finalist here with another gripe: why ask me for a 150 word essay that tells you nothing about my interest? are you even going to read it? no. you're just stalling. shame on you.

[jenglish27]

I think what they were trying to do with the original scholarship e-mail was somehow gauge whether or not a person's desired amount met some kind of pre-determined amount that they were willing to give. I'm willing to bet that they put all of us in some sort of category, and if we asked for funding outside of our category, they cut us. I'm not sure this is the best way to treat prospective applicants, but I can (sort of) understand why they would do it. If you're asking to match a 6 figure and they have you at (hypothetically) 50k max, they won't want to waste their time or tie up any resources making you an offer you're not going to consider.

I think ultimately they'll end up pissing off a lot of people who were hoping to use GULC to negotiate and some people who really were considering but got a little frisky with their request. Its impossible to tell and a little bit more transparency would definitely be helpful, but I guess I'd reserve judgment on the system as a whole unless I knew what their goals were and whether they were getting the people they wanted at a price they could pay. This is really the only explanation I can think of, since a simple "Yes I would like to be considered" e-mail isn't really enough to disqualify a candidate you previously thought might deserve scholarship money.

With this 150, its even harder to determine what they're doing. I think they're definitely looking for continued interest, but I actually do think they'll read these. Being able to answer a tough question like the ones they posed honestly and thoughtfully in 150 words is incredibly tough, and might actually serve to separate some people from the pack. They're splitting hairs here and as a result they're asking us to jump through a few hoops. I think the problem here is transparency. Its frustrating because none of us can figure out just what they're expecting, but I'm not sure I'd call it rude or unprofessional on their part. Just my two cents.

[HankBashir]

The general feeling I'm getting is that if you aren't contacted about and given merit aid, then you essentially have to pay sticker (minus any need-based grant they give, which I feel is extremely meager, and you have to take out the full stafford to get).

Is this correct?

[risa]

For those who got the "finalist" email, do you think this is the place for humor? I can't think of anything serious to properly address in 150 words. I'm planning on a light and slightly humorous "mistake" essay. Is this appropriate?

Personally I would play it safe. I agree with the others that the purpose is probably to guage interest, so the only way that you are likely to screw it up is by (a) not responding, (b) not answering the question, or (c) not taking it seriously.

If they are trying to get a guage of your capacity for introspection and your ability to maturely assess your shortcomings, humor might rub some readers the wrong way. On the other hand, if done really well it could address those points and also show that you don't take yourself too seriously. The choice is yours, but I see it as a high risk/low reward proposition.

Unless your topic is "applying to Georgetown." If so, win.

Submitted my 150. I guess I took a bit of a risk, as the "unusual circumstance in your life" that I described was not a serious one, but rather a crazy/random vignette, basically. I wouldn't say I used humor, but I certainly didn't engage in any deep introspection on this one. Fingers crossed the gamble works but really, I didn't know what else to say at this point. Between my personal statement, diversity statement, PILS essay and the email I sent on 2/4, I feel like I'm a broken record if I talk about anything remotely related to my interest in law / helping people / public interest. It was pretty much what I submitted or take #2 and talk about my cat

[mez4083]

After receiving the first email regarding to the scholarship, I did not submit any additional information but to tell them that I wanted to be considered. I did not get the "finalist" email and was noticed this morning that there would be no $ for me. So in that case, without any "expected offer" as mentioned by some of you, what did they based on to make that decision?

[BigZuck]

After receiving the first email regarding to the scholarship, I did not submit any additional information but to tell them that I wanted to be considered. I did not get the "finalist" email and was noticed this morning that there would be no $ for me. So in that case, without any "expected offer" as mentioned by some of you, what did they based on to make that decision?

The fact that you didn't follow simple, explicit directions?