UC Berkeley School of Law C/O 2020 Applicants (2016-2017) Forum

[Rigo]

I think it's a more fundamental correction based on (relatively) mediocre inputs and mediocre outputs. But time will tell.

so much salt i could get the rim right on my margarita

If I can't tell people at the supermarket "Top 10" then what even is the point of law school?

[Colonel_funkadunk]

I think it's a more fundamental correction based on (relatively) mediocre inputs and mediocre outputs. But time will tell.

so much salt i could get the rim right on my margarita

If I can't tell people at the supermarket "Top 10" then what even is the point of law school?

i just choose to use "top law school" for any school that has ever been mentioned in any capacity on this site.

[Rigo]

I think it's a more fundamental correction based on (relatively) mediocre inputs and mediocre outputs. But time will tell.

so much salt i could get the rim right on my margarita

If I can't tell people at the supermarket "Top 10" then what even is the point of law school?

i just choose to use "top law school" for any school that has ever been mentioned in any capacity on this site.

Yeah I constantly hear about how the local TTT is a GREAT school, so discussing law schools with non-TLSers is always a wash. You could go to Cooley and lay people would still think you're amazing and smart.

[Assasindowntheavenue]

The milo "protest"? No.

The violent riot? Yep.

edit: I guess that's "riots" now, as of this week.

This.

[bestwishes]

The small drop in rankings is likely due to the scandal with Former Dean Choudhry. That incident probably harmed others' view of Berkeley. My bet is that in a year or three, it'll return safely back to the top 10.

[Windjammer]

[edit - ninja'ed by previous post]

When do people think the peer review for 2016/2017 was conducted?

My guess would be: data could have been gathered in the time frame of March 2016 (previous ranking's release?) to 1-2 months ago (based on a vague guess of how much time it takes to process data & properly release the rankings).

If that guess is correct then,
1. the riot(s) may have occurred too recently to have figured centrally in peer review. (I'd also be surprised if peer review associated unidentified rioters with the law school - the logical leap would be tantamount to Trump's tweet. But that's adding assumptions.) On the other hand, if data was gathered AT the time of the riot and reviewers are happy to jump to conclusions then that'd re-enforce the opposite conclusion.

2. If we think back to March 2016 and its aftermath, the school could be perceived to still suffer from a crisis in leadership. If the school (correctly) perceived a need to install an interim Dean in March 2016, that could have impacted the review for 2016/2017 more heavily than in the previous year (where by my reckoning the leadership crisis might have been "too recent" to do full damage). Also, the previous dean's filing for discrimination in September 2016 pretty much ensured that the crisis stayed in the headlines and on people's minds. Personally I look at it more as a 2016/2017 than a 2015/2016 headline (though people's perception might obviously differ on this).

And of course there could be many, many other factors - but I haven't followed the negative (or positive) publicity surrounding Berkeley Law in 2016/2017 too closely. Maybe others could chime in?

[Assasindowntheavenue]

The small drop in rankings is likely due to the scandal with Former Dean Choudhry. That incident probably harmed others' view of Berkeley. My bet is that in a year or three, it'll return safely back to the top 10.

Going from tied for 8th to 12th in one year isn't a small drop lol.

[chandhi]

This might be controversial, but here are my thoughts (as someone who has not heard back yet but is in love with Berkeley):

Berkeley is not a school you pick based on rankings. If that's why you go there, you probably should have chosen somewhere else.

[Leliana]

Yeah, I'm honestly disinclined to think that the recent riots substantially affected the rankings, due to timing and lack of direct association with the law school like previous posters said. Also because controversial protests are nothing new in Berkeley's history and black bloc anarchists have always disrupted protests there... I would be curious to see how they fared in the rankings during times when there were other high-profile protests going on in which black bloc agitators got involved (e.g. BLM, Occupy?)

[AllHailKingMao]

This might be controversial, but here are my thoughts (as someone who has not heard back yet but is in love with Berkeley):

Berkeley is not a school you pick based on rankings. If that's why you go there, you probably should have chosen somewhere else.

Why? (not that I disagree)

[criley01]

This might be controversial, but here are my thoughts (as someone who has not heard back yet but is in love with Berkeley):

Berkeley is not a school you pick based on rankings. If that's why you go there, you probably should have chosen somewhere else.

Re-freakin-tweet. The school itself places less of a premium on LSAT in favor of GPA (so I think criticisms of their low median are sketchy). Plus some (obviously not all) students who go there might be inclined to eschew BigLaw despite being well-qualified in favor of PI/Gov work

[Rigo]

I just think this will make it harder for people to justify paying a boatload more to attend B than other mid to low T13's.
The impact on the medians could be further damaging.

The people comparing six figure Michigan schollies to $22.5k total at B is a perfect example of how B just doesn't make sense for a lot of people even if they love Berk the most.

[Rigo]

Seriously though, why pay six figures more for a lower ranked school?

[goldenbear2020]

This might be controversial, but here are my thoughts (as someone who has not heard back yet but is in love with Berkeley):

Berkeley is not a school you pick based on rankings. If that's why you go there, you probably should have chosen somewhere else.

Re-freakin-tweet. The school itself places less of a premium on LSAT in favor of GPA (so I think criticisms of their low median are sketchy). Plus some (obviously not all) students who go there might be inclined to eschew BigLaw despite being well-qualified in favor of PI/Gov work

Except even their GPA median has fallen to #11. A decade ago, it was #4 after HYS.

[chandhi]

This might be controversial, but here are my thoughts (as someone who has not heard back yet but is in love with Berkeley):

Berkeley is not a school you pick based on rankings. If that's why you go there, you probably should have chosen somewhere else.

Why? (not that I disagree)

Once again, my opinion: You choose Berkeley because of culture, students, maybe location, and the chance to be at a school at the forefront of social justice. Berkeley chooses its admitted students based largely on fit, not numbers (with some consideration given to GPA), and I feel like students choose Berkeley for similar reasons.

[Keilz]

I just think this will make it harder for people to justify paying a boatload more to attend B than other mid to low T13's.
The impact on the medians could be further damaging.

The people comparing six figure Michigan schollies to $22.5k total at B is a perfect example of how B just doesn't make sense for a lot of people even if they love Berk the most.

In this boat now. Though I hvent received from B yet

[Assasindowntheavenue]

I just think this will make it harder for people to justify paying a boatload more to attend B than other mid to low T13's.
The impact on the medians could be further damaging.

The people comparing six figure Michigan schollies to $22.5k total at B is a perfect example of how B just doesn't make sense for a lot of people even if they love Berk the most.

+1 to this and your other post. Hard to justify paying $$$ for a school that's not even top 10 anymore when you have scholarship offers sometimes triple what Berkeley is offering from schools that are doing even better. The exception to this, obvi, is people who are in love with UCB and would have gone there with or without money anyway. But I don't count those ppl, as I see the average law school applicant as someone who considers all factors (price, employment stats, programs, rank, etc.), not one that simply pays hand over fist because they love a school.

Edit: I haven't gotten my scholly info yet, but am referring to ppl who are 75ths> and have gotten lowball offers. Additionally, I am in this boat (not going to the school for less $ than I'm worth, though I'd like to attend).

[chandhi]

I just think this will make it harder for people to justify paying a boatload more to attend B than other mid to low T13's.
The impact on the medians could be further damaging.

The people comparing six figure Michigan schollies to $22.5k total at B is a perfect example of how B just doesn't make sense for a lot of people even if they love Berk the most.

+1 to this and your other post. Hard to justify paying $$$ for a school that's not even top 10 anymore when you have scholarship offers sometimes triple what Berkeley is offering from schools that are doing even better. The exception to this, obvi, is people who are in love with UCB and would have gone there with or without money anyway. But I don't count those ppl, as I see the average law school applicant as someone who considers all factors (price, employment stats, programs, rank, etc.), not one that simply pays hand over fist because they love a school.

Edit: I haven't gotten my scholly info yet, but am referring to ppl who are 75ths> and have gotten lowball offers. Additionally, I am in this boat (not going to the school for less $ than I'm worth, though I'd like to attend).

Which is why Berkeley is not filled with average law school applicants. Not necessarily better or worse students, just different.

[Assasindowntheavenue]

I just think this will make it harder for people to justify paying a boatload more to attend B than other mid to low T13's.
The impact on the medians could be further damaging.

The people comparing six figure Michigan schollies to $22.5k total at B is a perfect example of how B just doesn't make sense for a lot of people even if they love Berk the most.

+1 to this and your other post. Hard to justify paying $$$ for a school that's not even top 10 anymore when you have scholarship offers sometimes triple what Berkeley is offering from schools that are doing even better. The exception to this, obvi, is people who are in love with UCB and would have gone there with or without money anyway. But I don't count those ppl, as I see the average law school applicant as someone who considers all factors (price, employment stats, programs, rank, etc.), not one that simply pays hand over fist because they love a school.

Edit: I haven't gotten my scholly info yet, but am referring to ppl who are 75ths> and have gotten lowball offers. Additionally, I am in this boat (not going to the school for less $ than I'm worth, though I'd like to attend).

Which is why Berkeley is not filled with average law school applicants. Not necessarily better or worse students, just different.

That's their pitch at least lol.

[chandhi]

That's their pitch at least lol.

Ehhh, I'm pretty familiar with the Bay Area and have visited Berkeley quite a few times over the years. I'm not uber-familiar with the law school itself, but Berkeley in general has something interesting going on.

[LHS17]

This might be controversial, but here are my thoughts (as someone who has not heard back yet but is in love with Berkeley):

Berkeley is not a school you pick based on rankings. If that's why you go there, you probably should have chosen somewhere else.

Re-freakin-tweet. The school itself places less of a premium on LSAT in favor of GPA (so I think criticisms of their low median are sketchy). Plus some (obviously not all) students who go there might be inclined to eschew BigLaw despite being well-qualified in favor of PI/Gov work

Except even their GPA median has fallen to #11. A decade ago, it was #4 after HYS.

For what it's worth, their view book highlights they have been top 10 for ten consecutive years. So I think their mantra to an extent has been quality despite the numbers. Has employment taken a major hit?

[Rigo]

That's their pitch at least lol.

Ehhh, I'm pretty familiar with the Bay Area and have visited Berkeley quite a few times over the years. I'm not uber-familiar with the law school itself, but Berkeley in general has something interesting going on.

Yeah I'm not denying that. It is hard to rationalize a not-smart financial decision based on a feeling though if you're debt financing and every tangibly-measured metric is telling you to go elsewhere.

[proteinshake]

I feel like if Berkeley admitted based on numbers, they'd have an incredibly low yield rate. I think they know a bunch of people probably apply with the intention of going to the east coast anyway.

[Litt1tUp]

The milo "protest"? No.

The violent riot? Yep.

edit: I guess that's "riots" now, as of this week.

You means paid rioters by Trump? Just stating some alternate facts.

[goldenbear2020]

This might be controversial, but here are my thoughts (as someone who has not heard back yet but is in love with Berkeley):

Berkeley is not a school you pick based on rankings. If that's why you go there, you probably should have chosen somewhere else.

Re-freakin-tweet. The school itself places less of a premium on LSAT in favor of GPA (so I think criticisms of their low median are sketchy). Plus some (obviously not all) students who go there might be inclined to eschew BigLaw despite being well-qualified in favor of PI/Gov work

Except even their GPA median has fallen to #11. A decade ago, it was #4 after HYS.

For what it's worth, their view book highlights they have been top 10 for ten consecutive years. So I think their mantra to an extent has been quality despite the numbers. Has employment taken a major hit?

Biglaw/fedclerk dropped from 62% to 56% while 9 of the T13 went up or stayed the same.